Should the USA go metric?

[Shpaget]

Old habits die hard.

And longer you keep them, older they get.

[peadar1987]

I wish this was true. Just two years ago I asked for half a kilo of mature cheddar, and the counter assistant gave me 478 grams, and apologised for it being a bit over. The fresh from school darling had converted the half kilo to a pound, and then tried to cut me 454 grams.

When American TV is subtitled in the Netherlands, they convert everything on the fly, so if a character says "6 feet", or "five pounds", the subtitles will read "1.82m" or "2kg". Was a little off-putting at first.

[*Aqua*]

@One Wheeld Panda

Being German myself I know what you mean but reality's a bit different.

This "It was xx in DM" is mostly used when people think it's too expensive. They don't say it anymore because the don't know the value of yy €. Within a few months after the switch to € almost nobody used DM for buying and selling stuff anymore. Especially because ATMs consequently only gave out €.

As for horsepower the reason is it isn't exclusively used. A month ago I was at a a car repair shop and I saw that they still write the horsepower number in the info sheet of cars they want to sell. Because they are not consequent. But at least I know that my next car should have at least 70 kW.

[Camacha]

It took a lot of people nearly a decade to get used to the Euro. "That's XXX in [former national currency]" is a phrase you heard a lot. For years.

There are always a few vocal people that refuse to adjust, but that does not mean it actually is a big problem. People using old currency for that many years are fooling themselves too, as inflation over more than 5 years means a significant difference anyway, so you are simply fooling yourself in thinking the old value is intuitive. By then, it has lost its value too.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Camacha

[Wesreidau]

We use masses. 200g of butter. Means that all you need is a scales. And 1kg of butter is always 1kg of butter, even if you have weird offcuts it's almost impossible to measure the volume of.

Cooking in metric requires a scale? I've never been in a kitchen with scales. They don't fit in a drawer the way a set of measuring cups do. One cup of butter is always one cup of butter as well. If all you have is weird offcuts or Crisco, you just squish it into a measuring cup. Do all European households have a little electric food scales? Oh God, Google is flooded with .uk images of food scales. You do. That's unreal. I've only seen food scales in grocery store produce sections.

This whole conversation reminds me of the MST3K skit where the bots were arguing IBM versus Mac. They're both perfectly good systems and its really just down to user preference. It also reeks of "why doesn't America do X" threads from dark, painful forums past full of echo-chamber logic. So I'm done here.

[Camacha]

Cooking in metric requires a scale? I've never been in a kitchen with scales. They don't fit in a drawer the way a set of measuring cups do. One cup of butter is always one cup of butter as well. If all you have is weird offcuts or Crisco, you just squish it into a measuring cup. Do all European households have a little electric food scales? Oh God, Google is flooded with .uk images of food scales. You do. That's unreal. I've only seen food scales in grocery store produce sections.

Nonsense, cooking in metric does not require a food scale. The beauty is that you can interchange things quite easily. Most kitchen fluids have about the same density as water (or are close enough for kitchen applications), so if I do not have anything that measures volume I can use weight and vice versa. I know one litre of water weighs a kilo and measures 10x10x10 cm. The conversions are ridiculously easy.

I can give you the volume of an egg by weighing it, and the weight by putting it in a measuring cup with some water with only a minor margin of error. Cups just as cups, on the other hand, come in all shapes and sizes and will produce a wild variety of results.

[Shpaget]

Do all European households have a little electric food scales? Oh God, Google is flooded with .uk images of food scales. You do. That's unreal. I've only seen food scales in grocery store produce sections.

Whoa!

I find it unreal that you find that unreal. A kitchen scale is an everyday item over here.

[Red Iron Crown]

We cook in metric here, no scale necessary. Most recipes cite ingredients in volume measurements and our measuring cups have graduations for both; those few ingredients done by mass have markings on the packaging for them. We have a scale but rarely use it (mostly for measuring portion sizes).

[LordFerret]

What ever happened to "a handful of this" and "a pinch of that"?

[Wesreidau]

This widely-held misconception that Americans just grab a lowball or a wine glass out of the cabinet and shove it in a bin of flour defies critical examination. Measuring cups are standard things.

And yeah. I'm in a large family that cooks a lot, and for all the grandparents, aunts etc I've watched cook in a dozen kitchens, I've never seen a kitchen scale in my life. I'm seeing reviews for .01 gram precision kitchen scales "for coffee lovers" and wonder how you keep dry goods from falling off everywhere without hassling over bowls and tare weights.

- - - Updated - - -

What ever happened to "a handful of this" and "a pinch of that"?

[Camacha]

What ever happened to "a handful of this" and "a pinch of that"?

It is a terrible way of doing things, read my earlier comment on that.

This widely-held misconception that Americans just grab a lowball or a wine glass out of the cabinet and shove it in a bin of flour defies critical examination. Measuring cups are standard things.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS6v5T9b8q50hB8qf7pgsFX9iq9BolmfnSlOXlKaL5cKb1pvUhnLg

How on Earth do you imagine a set of that taking up less space than a kitchen scale? Of all the items in the cabinet, a scale is exactly the one thing that easily slides into some tiny sliver or excess space.

But what do you think metric cookware does? Exactly the same thing, except now the cups have volumes that also make sense outside of measuring cups. I know what a litre is, in whatever shape it comes. I am pretty sure that is not so with cups.

[Wesreidau]

Nobody does it anyway, although strictly speaking, your hand doesn't change size from day to day. Since cooking is almost always a ratio and the recipe can be adjusted to taste, it follows that a woman making biscuits every morning in a log cabin can get pretty consistently good at it. Just saying.

[Shpaget]

And yeah. I'm in a large family that cooks a lot, and for all the grandparents, aunts etc I've watched cook in a dozen kitchens, I've never seen a kitchen scale in my life. I'm seeing reviews for .01 gram precision kitchen scales "for coffee lovers" and wonder how you keep dry goods from falling off everywhere without hassling over bowls and tare weights.

Obviously, 0,01 g precision scale is nonsense for kitchen scenario.

Zeroing a modern digital scale is trivial. Put an empty bowl on it and turn it on. If it happens to already be turned on, just turn it on again (no need to previously turn it off).

[Camacha]

Nobody does it anyway, although strictly speaking, your hand doesn't change size from day to day. Since cooking is almost always a ratio and the recipe can be adjusted to taste, it follows that a woman making biscuits every morning in a log cabin can get pretty consistently good at it. Just saying.

Is this about the pinches and handfuls? Because I addressed exactly that in my previous comment:

It is just a lazy way of doing things. Cups for cups might work, but as soon as a tablespoon, teaspoon and pinch are added, a recipe could be any of the almost infinite possible permutations possible. Recipes are written that way by and for cooks that know what they are doing. Instead of being overly precise, they know what they are doing by experience and feel. However, when someone less initiated tries the same thing, it all falls apart pretty quickly.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Camacha

[Red Iron Crown]

Should differentiate between baking and cooking here. Baking is science, where you follow steps and use measurements as precisely as possible for repeatability. Cooking is art, where you adjust to taste on the fly in based on feedback. A pinch of this and a dash of that is fine for cooking but not so much for baking.

[peadar1987]

Cooking in metric requires a scale? I've never been in a kitchen with scales. They don't fit in a drawer the way a set of measuring cups do. One cup of butter is always one cup of butter as well. If all you have is weird offcuts or Crisco, you just squish it into a measuring cup. Do all European households have a little electric food scales? Oh God, Google is flooded with .uk images of food scales. You do. That's unreal. I've only seen food scales in grocery store produce sections.

This whole conversation reminds me of the MST3K skit where the bots were arguing IBM versus Mac. They're both perfectly good systems and its really just down to user preference. It also reeks of "why doesn't America do X" threads from dark, painful forums past full of echo-chamber logic. So I'm done here.

I use a scales that measures 0-2kg, and can fairly accurately measure to within 10g. It cost me £6 as far as I can remember. It's about 15cm by 10cm with the measuring bowl inverted on top of it.

[Wesreidau]

It is a terrible way of doing things, read my earlier comment on that.

How on Earth do you imagine a set of that taking up less space than a kitchen scale? Of all the items in the cabinet, a scale is exactly the one thing that easily slides into some tiny sliver or excess space.

But what do you think metric cookware does? Exactly the same thing, except now the cups have volumes that also make sense outside of measuring cups. I know what a litre is, in whatever shape it comes. I am pretty sure that is not so with cups.

It takes up less space because the whole set nests inside itself. Furthermore two cups are a pint, two pints are a quart, four quarts are a gallon, and 42 gallons are a barrel of oil as traded on the world commodity markets. Its really not hard.

And let me be clear, nobody cooks with pinches.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Wesreidau

[Albert VDS]

If you have a kitchen scale and enjoy cooking, then you buy a digital scale like this:

Newer ones are even flatter:

That's about the size and thickness of a cutting board.

I just find the analog scales annoying and take too much space.

Cups and spoon measurement is used world wide, you can even find it in recipes next to defined in weight.

[Wesreidau]

Cups and spoon measurement is used world wide, you can even find it in recipes next to defined in weight.

I always thought as much, which makes it all the more amazing I've had several Europeans absolutely convinced Americans grab a drinking glass from the cabinet to measure with. You'd think an unscrupulous car dealer in American posts inflated horsepower ratings by using Shetlands. Anyway, I'm thoroughly distracted from reality by this thread. Tchau.

[LordFerret]

It takes up less space because the whole set nests inside itself. Furthermore two cups are a pint, two pints are a quart, four quarts are a gallon, and 42 gallons are a barrel of oil as traded on the world commodity markets. Its really not hard.

And let me be clear, nobody cooks with pinches.

Nobody? lol My grandmother used to, even wrote her recipes down using such references - pinch, handful, drip, dab, and slab. Awesome shortbread recipe!

[Camacha]

Should differentiate between baking and cooking here. Baking is science, where you follow steps and use measurements as precisely as possible for repeatability. Cooking is art, where you adjust to taste on the fly in based on feedback. A pinch of this and a dash of that is fine for cooking but not so much for baking.

Semantics, and probably very personal semantics. How much you interpret and how much you do exactly by the recipe differs per person, per day, per skill level and per recipe, and that is why my previous comment is applicable. It falls apart just too quickly if you are not specific.

[Wesreidau]

... Anecdotes are not data? I dunno, I quit.

[Camacha]

It takes up less space because the whole set nests inside itself. Furthermore two cups are a pint, two pints are a quart, four quarts are a gallon, and 42 gallons are a barrel of oil as traded on the world commodity markets. Its really not hard.

Still many times more complicated than metric units. The scale is not even linear, not to mention converting between weight and volume.

That's about the size and thickness of a cutting board.

That is what I meant. It is about the easiest thing in the cupboard to put away, costs not even 10 dollars/euros and generally is accurate within a gram.

[kurja]

Well I use metric 100% of the time and never used a scale for cooking. What is a 'cup' is to me a 'dl', which I measure out with... a measuring cup. This whole discussion of metric being somehow more difficult or less useful in this regard is ridiculous and absurd. What do Americans do if they come across a recipe that calls for an ounce or quarter pound or whatever of something? It's not any greater problem whichever units you use.

or

Edited June 16, 2015 by kurja

[Albert VDS]

Semantics, and probably very personal semantics. How much you interpret and how much you do exactly by the recipe differs per person, per day, per skill level and per recipe, and that is why my previous comment is applicable. It falls apart just too quickly if you are not specific.

Take a cheesecake recipe and add less gelatin and it wont be a cheesecake, instead it will be cheese custard.