Is china about to build a 100km suprcollider >100TeV

[PB666]

https://www.quantamagazine.org/20150922-nima-arkani-hamed-collider-physics/

as the title states the subject of the peice claims to be pushing the chinese government in that direction.

If they pull this one off, it would be a major technological and political feat for china. China has the rare earth deposits that make this possible, but .......

[smjjames]

but...... what?

[PB666]

but...... what?

The europeans had their fair share of trouble with overheating supermagnets, this is not something you can bully through, its a slow careful methodical process.

[KSK]

Agreed that it would a major feat for China - or any other country for that matter.

$10 billion sounds optimistic though, even allowing for different economic conditions in China.

[PB666]

Agreed that it would a major feat for China - or any other country for that matter.

$10 billion sounds optimistic though, even allowing for different economic conditions in China.

Good catch, yeah that is pretty cheap.

[Othuyeg]

Well, it is not completely impossible. Remember, the cost of labour in China is much lower than in Europe. CERN ended up costing around $9bn. So, the construction itself will most likely be cheaper than this, even though it will be much larger than the LHC.

10 billion will not be enough, no, but it might be closer than you think.

[KSK]

Yes but that was $9 billion to upgrade an existing accelerator - the Large Electron/Positron collider or LEP. Actually, calling it an upgrade isn't really fair - building the LHC was more like building a completely new accelerator in the LEP tunnel. I don't how much it cost to dig out the tunnel in the first place, especially compared to the cost of all the actual equipment that goes in there but I'm thinking it was still quite a cost saving for CERN.

The Chinese accelerator will need to start from scratch, so even allowing for lower labour costs, I'd be surprised if the eventual costs are close to $10 billion. The tunnel is a pretty major piece of engineering in it's own right and has to be level to pretty high tolerances - not cheap.

[RainDreamer]

I imagine some earthquake would cause considerable damage if this is not done properly...

Looking forward to see this, but not going to have too high hopes for it.

[PB666]

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/oct/29/china-supercollider-higgs-boson-science-leader

[xenomorph555]

They've been planning this for a while now, good to see the plan going into action.

While i'm not sure if it can be done for $10 billion (Although you have to remember that conversion wise that will go for a lot more in China then America), however they definitely have technical side of it covered. This is the country that's building the FAST telescope, over 30 new nuclear reactors, many high speed rail lines, super computers like Tianhe-2 and of course their space program; so I have no doubt that they have technical capabilities.

[PB666]

They've been planning this for a while now, good to see the plan going into action.

While i'm not sure if it can be done for $10 billion (Although you have to remember that conversion wise that will go for a lot more in China then America), however they definitely have technical side of it covered. This is the country that's building the FAST telescope, over 30 new nuclear reactors, many high speed rail lines, super computers like Tianhe-2 and of course their space program; so I have no doubt that they have technical capabilities.

The critcal level is the length of the superconduction electromagnets that have to be used to arrive at the forces they desire.

It should provide some badly needed stimilus to the chinese economy, so its not altogether a waste no matter what happens. more of these high tech projects would benefit their economy greatly, but the biggest bang for the buck would be replacing coal and getting future health care cost down.

Edited October 30, 2015 by PB666

[magnemoe]

Well, it is not completely impossible. Remember, the cost of labour in China is much lower than in Europe. CERN ended up costing around $9bn. So, the construction itself will most likely be cheaper than this, even though it will be much larger than the LHC.

10 billion will not be enough, no, but it might be closer than you think.

China also have lots of desert areas where land is free, this is not the case in Europe, no real reason to build it underground at all.

One idea will get to get other to pay for the instrument packages, they just provide the accelerator

[Firwen]

China also have lots of desert areas where land is free, this is not the case in Europe, no real reason to build it underground at all.

One idea will get to get other to pay for the instrument packages, they just provide the accelerator

I can guarantee you that you can find way more than 100 km of free space in Europe ^^.

The main reason to a build particle accelerator underground is not because of the lack of space but for shielding reasons:

- Synchrotron emits a tangential synchrotron radiation that need to be shielded. This radiation can be pretty powerful in case of large accelerator. This shield comes for free underground.

- Detectors and particle accelerator are extremely sensible to electromagnetic interference. To have an idea, the LEP at CERN was suffering of a visible interference due to the action of a Swiss train 25km away.

Again, building underground gives you the shielding for free.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Firwen