Neutron Star/ White Dwarf life possible?

[fredinno]

Is it possible for a planet around a Neutron Star to have life (like in Interstellar) or a white Dwarf despite the higher high energy radiation levels? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_dwarf#Debris_disks_and_planets I mean accretion disks can form after the supernova phase from the leftover nebula, and planets may sprial inwards following the red giant phase due to the destabilisation of the planet's orbit. It seems tidal effects would be a problem, but a combination of ammonia/methane biology and farther out orbit may remove this concern. So is it possible for life to form around these burnt star crisps?

[sevenperforce]

Absolutely.

Not to derail on the first reply, but if Saturn or Jupiter was teeming with microbial life right now, would we know? Jupiter's atmosphere is thousands of times the volume of our entire lithosphere; the odds seem fairly good that life could have arisen. But would we be able to see anything anomalous from here?

[magnemoe]

Don't thing so, neutron stars have quakes and stuff hitting them gives off insane radiation bursts. White dwarfs will cool pretty fast over geological time. 

[AngelLestat]

Larry niven wrote a whole novel around an habitable zone on a neutron star, is called "the smoke ring", i never read it, i will like to, if i found time.

But it seems that due the right conditions, these can be a real possibility, at least there is this review that explain something about it:

http://www.larryniven.net/physics/img27.shtml

Not sure, I have to read it.

Edited February 26, 2016 by AngelLestat

[Findthepin1]

What about on a star? 2MASS J0523-1403 is the coldest known proper star, at 1801 Celsius. I believe that is cool enough for chemical reactions to happen. Chemical reactions theoretically can lead to life. Therefore there theoretically can be life on some colder stars.

[tater]

I read that Niven when it came out.

I think it is not impossible, the universe is a rather large place. That said, it kind of depends on how you define conditions for life. If you are open to exobiologies that might not be as likely/plausible, then pretty much anything goes. If you require liquid water, and radiation within some limits, then maybe it's considerably less likely---but again, there are many neutron stars and white dwarves out there, so you only need have some form of life on a vanishingly small % to have the answer be, "yes."

[AngelLestat]

Tater: but not all neutron stars emit high radiation.. and it seems that in that book you have almost 20000 km of atmosphere to block that radiation.

Is like when people said that you can no be in the edge of a black hole without spaghettify, it depends the case..
You recommend it?

[magnemoe]

1 hour ago, tater said:

I read that Niven when it came out.

I think it is not impossible, the universe is a rather large place. That said, it kind of depends on how you define conditions for life. If you are open to exobiologies that might not be as likely/plausible, then pretty much anything goes. If you require liquid water, and radiation within some limits, then maybe it's considerably less likely---but again, there are many neutron stars and white dwarves out there, so you only need have some form of life on a vanishingly small % to have the answer be, "yes."

Note that smoke ring was an special place, you need an pretty dead neutron star one who not radiates much, you need an normal star in orbit around it for sun light,. then you need an super venus with mosly an nitrogen and co2 atmosphere and so large it rivals Uranus in thight orbit around the neutron star. 
The physic might make sense but its an very unlikely thing, if we find one its an high chance someone build it. 

[fredinno]

3 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

Absolutely.

Not to derail on the first reply, but if Saturn or Jupiter was teeming with microbial life right now, would we know? Jupiter's atmosphere is thousands of times the volume of our entire lithosphere; the odds seem fairly good that life could have arisen. But would we be able to see anything anomalous from here?

Well, gas giants like jupiter and Saturn are really extreme deserts in terms of volatile availability. Jupiter is probably impossible due to radiation, but Saturn's less deadly upper atmosphere might work- especially if there's life in Venus' clouds.

3 hours ago, magnemoe said:

Don't thing so, neutron stars have quakes and stuff hitting them gives off insane radiation bursts. White dwarfs will cool pretty fast over geological time. 

Well, it just needs to be there long enough for simple bacteria to form, so maybe 1 billion years in the habitable zone?

2 hours ago, Findthepin1 said:

What about on a star? 2MASS J0523-1403 is the coldest known proper star, at 1801 Celsius. I believe that is cool enough for chemical reactions to happen. Chemical reactions theoretically can lead to life. Therefore there theoretically can be life on some colder stars.

Well, not yet, really. 1801 C is still hotter than the surface of Venus. Brown dwarfs might work though, but in both cases, high-energy radiation is a serious concern.

1 hour ago, tater said:

I read that Niven when it came out.

I think it is not impossible, the universe is a rather large place. That said, it kind of depends on how you define conditions for life. If you are open to exobiologies that might not be as likely/plausible, then pretty much anything goes. If you require liquid water, and radiation within some limits, then maybe it's considerably less likely---but again, there are many neutron stars and white dwarves out there, so you only need have some form of life on a vanishingly small % to have the answer be, "yes."

Well, Water, ammonia, and methane exobiologies are all acceptable (and Hydroflouric acid too, if possible, but I'm fairly certain HF isn't common enough for this purpose.)

[Findthepin1]

13 hours ago, fredinno said:

Well, not yet, really. 1801 C is still hotter than the surface of Venus. Brown dwarfs might work though, but in both cases, high-energy radiation is a serious concern.

There can be chemical reactions at the surface of Venus. Maybe on this small red dwarf there can be an alternative biochemistry of liquid iron or something.

[insert_name]

seems possible, wonder if one of the super earths in the lich system would have enough atmosphere?

[fredinno]

3 hours ago, Findthepin1 said:

There can be chemical reactions at the surface of Venus. Maybe on this small red dwarf there can be an alternative biochemistry of liquid iron or something.

Probably not, the high-energy radiation, and the ability of temperatures that high to break essentuial chemical bonds probably makes that impossible.

Fun fact is that in several billion years, meallicity increases will allow for stars the temperature of liquid water to fuze hydrogen.

[Temstar]

The other alternative people have imagined is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon's_Egg

Life on the surface of the neutron star itself, based around the strong force instead of electromagnetic force like us.

[fredinno]

3 hours ago, Temstar said:

The other alternative people have imagined is this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragon's_Egg

Life on the surface of the neutron star itself, based around the strong force instead of electromagnetic force like us.

Good freaking luck with that actually happening.

[problemecium]

I can't say for neutron stars, but considering the extreme lifespans of white dwarfs, there should totally be life developing around them. Also, I thought I posted this hours ago but apparently not. Lemme know if any evil clones appear.

[fredinno]

1 hour ago, parameciumkid said:

I can't say for neutron stars, but considering the extreme lifespans of white dwarfs, there should totally be life developing around them. Also, I thought I posted this hours ago but apparently not. Lemme know if any evil clones appear.

Well, the problem with white dwarfs is that they still radiate lots of high-energy radiation, the light is less from the original star (and shrinks over time.) Also, the nebula from the novas don't always form a second planetary genesis.