A new jet engine

[He_162]

Squad should add a new turbojet, something in between the turbo ramjet, and the wheesley. Not a panther engine though, just something that will work better at higher altitudes.

 

The J75 was used on the U-2 spy plane to carry it to the edges of the atmosphere. We should have an engine that is smaller, and capable of doing this with really good fuel efficiency early on in the game, and to provide a way to air launch something from the edges of the atmosphere, or to do some early exploring of Kerbin.

[cfds]

Hasn't Squad wasted enough developer time on jet engines yet?. You could have a look in the modding section though, there should be engines for every situation.

[He_162]

1 hour ago, cfds said:

Hasn't Squad wasted enough developer time on jet engines yet?. You could have a look in the modding section though, there should be engines for every situation.

I am very stubborn. I prefer to use only stock parts. That way anyone can use my craft without hassle, and I feel more rewarded for the things I build, thank you.

 

I wouldn't say wasted their time, I mean it's part of the game. Since they are hard at work, I am sure they can find time to add something like this down the road, of course it doesn't need to be here immediately, but it has a very good reason to be in-game, and therefore, why not add it?

[KerikBalm]

That would be the panther in afterburneing mode... or the Juno... you want a bigger Juno, a 1.25m version of it?

It does do better at higher speed than the wheesely... but not as good as the panther

[He_162]

On 6/2/2016 at 8:17 AM, KerikBalm said:

 

That would be the panther in afterburneing mode... or the Juno... you want a bigger Juno, a 1.25m version of it?

It does do better at higher speed than the wheesely... but not as good as the panther

 

Well, what I was looking for was something that could operate at 30,000m + maybe even 35,000m, but with enough thrust to keep an aircraft operating up there with enough lift to stay in the air, such as the U-2 spyplane. That would be really useful for early game aircraft launched rockets, and probes, etc, or X-15 launches and such.

[Tex]

True, but remember that Kerbin is scaled down massively. According to this article, the U-2's initial operating altitude was 60,000 feet, or roughly 18,288m. I think that this is about possible with stock engines, right? It's been a while since I did high-altitude flying.

[ZooNamedGames]

27 minutes ago, Maximus97 said:

True, but remember that Kerbin is scaled down massively. According to this article, the U-2's initial operating altitude was 60,000 feet, or roughly 18,288m. I think that this is about possible with stock engines, right? It's been a while since I did high-altitude flying.

I can do hops to about 35km out of the atmosphere and then skim down to a little under 20km and back up again to hop again, and I've also skimmed at almost at 24km continuously, so yes you can.

[juanml82]

1 hour ago, He_162 said:

Well, what I was looking for was something that could operate at 30,000m + maybe even 35,000m, but with enough thrust to keep an aircraft operating up there with enough lift to stay in the air, such as the U-2 spyplane. That would be really useful for early game aircraft launched rockets, and probes, etc, or X-15 launches and such.

Kerbin's atmosphere is scaled down from Earth. In Kerbin, there is not enough oxygen at 35,000m to keep an air breather engine working.

Also, where did you get the figure for the U-2? Wikipedia claims the service ceiling of the U-2S is 21,300 meters. So, in either case, you have to look to an efficient rocket engine if you want to cruise in Kerbin at 35,000 meters. The Nerv is heavy, but fits that description.

[He_162]

1 minute ago, juanml82 said:

Kerbin's atmosphere is scaled down from Earth. In Kerbin, there is not enough oxygen at 35,000m to keep an air breather engine working.

Also, where did you get the figure for the U-2? Wikipedia claims the service ceiling of the U-2S is 21,300 meters. So, in either case, you have to look to an efficient rocket engine if you want to cruise in Kerbin at 35,000 meters. The Nerv is heavy, but fits that description.

I was suggesting an engine similar to the U2's, and one that could be mounted on an AIRFRAME similar to the U-2's.

 

The highest current world absolute general aviation altitude record -General Aviation World Records- achieved by a manned Airbreathing jet engine propelled aircraft is 37,650 metres (123,520 ft) set by Alexandr Fedotov, in a Mikoyan Gurevich E-266M (MiG-25M), on 31 August 1977.

 

MiG-25M

Two testbeds (one converted from a MiG-25RB and one from a MiG-25PD) for more powerful (98.04 kN (22,045 lbf) dry, 129.71 kN (29,166 lbf) with afterburner) engines.

Ye-266M

Designation applied to MiG-25M when used for record breaking in 1975 and 1977, including setting an absolute altitude record for a jet aircraft of 37,650 m (123,524 ft) on 31 August 1977.

 

Those records must follow these rules:

1. Must maintain that altitude as maximum reachable and maintainable altitude for a short duration (long enough for a small rocket to be launched at 35,000m? )

2. Must not stall before that altitude

[Corona688]

14 minutes ago, He_162 said:

I was suggesting an engine similar to the U2's, and one that could be mounted on an AIRFRAME similar to the U-2's.

Kerbin's atmosphere is shallower than Earth's.

Earth's air pressure at 30 km:  About 5 kilopascals

Kerbin's altitude at 5 kilopascals air pressure:  Somewhere between 15 and 20 km

So what you're asking for is the ramjets we already have.

Unless you want something magical which runs in 400 kilopascals, what you get at 30km on kerbin.

Edited June 18, 2016 by Corona688

[He_162]

1 hour ago, Corona688 said:

Kerbin's atmosphere is shallower than Earth's.

Earth's air pressure at 30 km:  About 5 kilopascals

Kerbin's altitude at 5 kilopascals air pressure:  Somewhere between 15 and 20 km

So what you're asking for is the ramjets we already have.

Unless you want something magical which runs in 400 kilopascals, what you get at 30km on kerbin.

No, I want a fuel efficient engine that can keep an aircraft at that altitude, whilst being slower of course, but can also be gotten earlier in the game, perhaps along with the Panther engine, that way we have an aircraft engine capable of being used, albeit not as efficient as the ramjet, but good enough to be used in early career for SSTO's, and other such things.

[Corona688]

So you want an engine that bears no resemblance to any earthly technology?

[RA3236]

1 hour ago, Corona688 said:

So you want an engine that bears no resemblance to any earthly technology?

The Wiplash and Rapier aren't exactly earthly technology.

[Red Iron Crown]

8 hours ago, He_162 said:

The highest current world absolute general aviation altitude record -General Aviation World Records- achieved by a manned Airbreathing jet engine propelled aircraft is 37,650 metres (123,520 ft) set by Alexandr Fedotov, in a Mikoyan Gurevich E-266M (MiG-25M), on 31 August 1977.

That was a zoom climb and not stable flight at that altitude, easily done in KSP (and to higher altitudes than that, even).

[The_Rocketeer]

My biggest problem with this is it makes jet engines way overpowered. If you can break atmosphere with jets only (which you easily could if your jet runs comfortably at 35,000m), that's just silly. I like the current balance - if u want to 'fly' higher, forget jets and build a ballistic missile.

As others have said, on Kerbal scale it's already pretty easy to exceed the maximum performance of the U2 anyway.

Edited June 18, 2016 by The_Rocketeer

[KerikBalm]

Kerbin's atmosphere is scaled down somewhere around 1/2 to 1/3 of earth's.

Those mig 29 records were zoomclimbs... not sustained flight. The panther should be able to get you to those altitudes in a zoomclimb... and thats OP because of the aforementioned scale of the atmosphere.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/design/scripts/atmosphere/

According to this, the U2, when cruising at 20km, wouldbe in air that is roughly 5.5 kPa. This corresponds to about 16km on Kerbin. (based on the atmosphere curve in the game files, by 16.68km, its already 4.8 kPa).

So... try and make a plane that can cruise at 16.5km, and you're beating the U2.

In comparison, the SR-71's service ceiling was apparent;y 25.9 km... ie 2.22 kPa by 21.1km in KSP, its already at 2.05 kPa

So, if the turboramejt can push you to mach3 and keep you at 20km... its equalling the SR-71 (which also used a sort of turboramjet)

 

I'm not seeing the problem here

 

*edit*, well a quick test of a U2 style plane powered by Junos, reveals I can fly to 15km, but 16.5km is looking like its going to be a bit difficult... maybe as fuel burns off, or with an extra pair of junos... but I'm already at "ballpark" figures for a U2 by using the Juno

*edit2* same design, loaded with less fuel, reached 16.5km level flight

And then in a zoom climb in a twin panther craft at about 45 degrees climb, I reached over 42.5 km.. which corresponds to an air density found at 55km on earth... then I did a steeper zoomb climb, and reached 60km... which corresponds to 75km on earth... so uh... yea... I don't see the problem, the planes outperform or match real world designs

Edited June 18, 2016 by KerikBalm

[Corona688]

7 hours ago, RA3236 said:

The Wiplash and Rapier aren't exactly earthly technology.

Neither do they violate the laws of physics and give you oxygen out of nowhere for free.

 

Edited June 18, 2016 by Corona688

[He_162]

5 hours ago, Red Iron Crown said:

That was a zoom climb and not stable flight at that altitude, easily done in KSP (and to higher altitudes than that, even).

I reviewed this, and found that I shouldn't trust wikipedia, I modified the article so it didn't say that as well, and added some sources. Thanks for the info.

I see why the engine I suggested is useless, if you want, you can close this thread, I see no point anymore.

[Red Iron Crown]

Closed at OP request.