RoverDude

[1.8.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

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5 hours ago, nonono said:

Hey gang, I'm a bit stumped on something with MKS so I'm hoping someone can set me straight. I'm trying to set up an automated mining outpost using a Duna logistics module with some drills and storage set to push to planetary inventory. While I am actively managing the vessel it mines and sends resources to the planetary stores just fine, my issue is I was certain that it was possible to have a vessel mining and sending resources to the planetary stores while in the background. Is there something specific I need to do in order to allow for that to happen?

Unfortunately not 'actively' in the background. The KSP mechanism is to rapidly run a 'catch-up' process when you return to the vessel i.e. return after 100 days and you'll get 100 days of mining, production, supply usage, etc. all in a rush. In the context of MKS this works pretty well. You just need to visit your bases/outposts on each body in the right order to get things into planetary inventory, so raw materials first, then users of those products, then top-tier last.

The catch-up mechanism works in 6-hour chunks so you need enough local storage of every resource to capture that amount - and because planetary logistics only pushes/pulls to 50%, you need at least 12 hours worth of local storage for anything going to/from planetary inventory - I generally aim for 13+ hours for a little buffer. Use the Kolony Inventory window during a KRASH sim to calculate. Remember production will go up with increasing bonuses / down with decreasing machinery. 

There are some stock bugs around electricity generation and heat management during catch-up which can cause serious trouble for a complex base, so I suggest always quicksaving before you do a round of visits.

On your specific outpost, note that Duna/Tundra logistics modules require a pilot or quartermaster to access planetary logistics. Only the automated MPUs can push uncrewed - designed for this use case.

On 5/10/2020 at 5:57 AM, Souptime said:

Can i remove all of the difficult parts and just have it as a parts pack? KPBS wont work with my mod setup and i cant find any other small outpost base mods so if i cant remove the resources and the features and have it just as a parts pack can you direct me towards a small outpost pack? ksp 1.9.1

If you turn off machinery in the MKS settings and turn all the life support & habitation impacts to nothing in the USI-LS settings, then you basically have a parts pack right here.

On 5/16/2020 at 10:21 PM, Tokamak said:

Unrelated: Is this the appropriate place for a bug report? There is a problem with the normal map on the "Tundra 2.5M hub (short)", so the lighting is inverted and otherwise wonky.

I think so, though the best place is probably on Github itself - I've not ventured into that myself yet.

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7 hours ago, nonono said:

Hey gang, I'm a bit stumped on something with MKS so I'm hoping someone can set me straight. I'm trying to set up an automated mining outpost using a Duna logistics module with some drills and storage set to push to planetary inventory. While I am actively managing the vessel it mines and sends resources to the planetary stores just fine, my issue is I was certain that it was possible to have a vessel mining and sending resources to the planetary stores while in the background. Is there something specific I need to do in order to allow for that to happen?

No vessel exists when outside of the physics simulation range.

Since the introduction of ISRU, KSP has a 'catch-up' mechanic that will simulate the time since the vessel was last simulated in 6 hour chunks.

MKS uses this core mechanic to handle all 'offline' processing.

As such, you need to stop by your drilling platforms from time to time to catch them up.

There are some mods(such as Kerbalism) which have an actual  'offline' mechanic, but as this is generally done as a replacement for the stock mechanic, they are not compatible with MKS(with behaviors ranging from 'you no longer get anything when offline' to 'MKS is reduced to a set of parts that do nothing but spam the logs with error messages')

 

There is a system being worked on(and greatly anticipated) by RoverDude called W.O.L.F. which has a parallel mechanic and is intended to handle many of the logistics difficulties in MKS(offline production, automated interplanetary transfers, Kraken attacks on large mining bases, etc) and it was suggested that that will be included in the MKS update to 1.9, but it seems that RoverDude has been busy and it has not yet been released.

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Aye been a while, had forgotten about wolf. I hope its still in the pipes with MKS 1.9 whenever that comes out. 

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I also have a question hopefully someone here can answer. The resources distributed for MKS are those randomly generated? Do they work for different planet packs and the like? 

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Anyone know of a full documentation pdf that I could download.

I know about the wiki, but i was hoping that I would be able to download an entire file that contains all the info rather than having to go through the wiki for each specific topic

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11 hours ago, Yuri kagarin56 said:

I also have a question hopefully someone here can answer. The resources distributed for MKS are those randomly generated? Do they work for different planet packs and the like? 

I believe they are generated from your game seed(the same thing that determines the distribution of ore) combined with some configuration files(less water on the Mun, and more water on Lathe for example).  I am not sure if such files are required or not for planet packs, but I suspect if they are, it seems likely that someone else has already tossed RD a pull request to add them in.

8 hours ago, UnreadyCandy said:

Anyone know of a full documentation pdf that I could download.

I know about the wiki, but i was hoping that I would be able to download an entire file that contains all the info rather than having to go through the wiki for each specific topic

I do not believe such a thing exists at this time.

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16 hours ago, Yuri kagarin56 said:

I also have a question hopefully someone here can answer. The resources distributed for MKS are those randomly generated? Do they work for different planet packs and the like? 

Depends on the planet pack — e.g., Outer Planets Mod comes with CFGs that distributes the MKS resources in specific biomes of the newly added planets. JNSQ bundles RationalResources which does much the same, but also goes further and tailors the resource distribution of *all* bodies in the system. (Fair warning that RationalResources removes Dirt, Karbonite and Karborundum as global and planetary resources. You can still fill up a tank with Karbonite in the VAB but you won't find it in the wild.)

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is there any way to park a barge in the oceans of kerbin with a drill or something and pump up large amounts of water?

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18 hours ago, Jumberlack said:

is there any way to park a barge in the oceans of kerbin with a drill or something and pump up large amounts of water?

Karbonite comes with Ocean collector which collects water in addition Karbonite. 

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Hey Rover, I am not sure if this is the right place to mention this, but the KLF-250 is under Heavy Rocketry, but it is about the same size as the Mainsail, which is under Heavier Rocketry.  Just wanted to point that out in case you want to balance it.

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I have a question. It's possible I'm just not coming up with the right search terms. If so, I'm sorry.

 

Is it possible for a colony divided into multiple vessels to share habitation values? Like you can share resources with logistics, and power with transmitters.

 

What I mean is, say I have one craft that is just for farming, and it only has enough habitation value to keep a farmer there for 10 days before they turn into a tourist... but I have a nice big kerbitat right next to it. Is there a way to keep my farmers content with being in the vicinity of something with a lot of habitation, without actually being in that vessel? It seems like the mod would be hard to use without that, but I'm not seeing a way.

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13 hours ago, Tokamak said:

I have a question. It's possible I'm just not coming up with the right search terms. If so, I'm sorry.

 

Is it possible for a colony divided into multiple vessels to share habitation values? Like you can share resources with logistics, and power with transmitters.

 

What I mean is, say I have one craft that is just for farming, and it only has enough habitation value to keep a farmer there for 10 days before they turn into a tourist... but I have a nice big kerbitat right next to it. Is there a way to keep my farmers content with being in the vicinity of something with a lot of habitation, without actually being in that vessel? It seems like the mod would be hard to use without that, but I'm not seeing a way.

I believe, yes. Habitation is shared with all vessels within 150m, iirc. I've done what you have described in a 1.3 save, and I don't think anything has changed.

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14 minutes ago, Gilph said:

I believe, yes. Habitation is shared with all vessels within 150m, iirc. I've done what you have described in a 1.3 save, and I don't think anything has changed.

I'm trying to remember if it affected this or not - it's been a while since I checked - but you might need to have one Kerbal in each ship to make sure they're in the network.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Gilph said:

I believe, yes. Habitation is shared with all vessels within 150m, iirc. I've done what you have described in a 1.3 save, and I don't think anything has changed.

 

2 hours ago, DStaal said:

I'm trying to remember if it affected this or not - it's been a while since I checked - but you might need to have one Kerbal in each ship to make sure they're in the network.

Oh! It hadn't occurred to me to check if it just worked without me doing anything special. I feel silly. I'll try that. Thanks!

 

Edit: Yup, that is how it works! I didn't realize it would be that simple. :D

Edited by Tokamak

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This is probably a noob question (but I'm just starting out with MKS, so yeah, noob)...but what is the difference between the "regular" drills and the "automated" ones? ie between the "MEU-100 pulse drill" and the "MEU-100-A pulse drill". The only dif I can see is a lower power consumption on the A version, with a sightly higher cost and mass. 

I'm also a bit confused (totally baffled actually) by the "Bay" concept on drill and converters.  So I want to drill for MetallicOre, and I've got my MEU-100 drill and I've set it's Bay 1 and Bay 1 Separator value to MetallicOre=>Water.  I don't get what the separator bit does. It doesn't seem to matter what I set the separator to, I still get MetallicOre from the drill. 

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20 minutes ago, katateochi said:

This is probably a noob question (but I'm just starting out with MKS, so yeah, noob)...but what is the difference between the "regular" drills and the "automated" ones? ie between the "MEU-100 pulse drill" and the "MEU-100-A pulse drill". The only dif I can see is a lower power consumption on the A version, with a sightly higher cost and mass. 

Regular drills get large bonuses with an experienced Kerbal operating them - and large penalties if there's no relevant Engineer or Miner around.  So if you're setting up a base and have a place for Kerbal to man it, the regular drill will perform a lot better - but if there's no Kerbal in the ship, the Automated drills will perform better.  I think there's some differences in logistics as well, but I can't remember off the top of my head - something like the Automated drills could push but not pull to planetary storage.  (Which typically would take a Kerbal, as well.)

28 minutes ago, katateochi said:

I'm also a bit confused (totally baffled actually) by the "Bay" concept on drill and converters.  So I want to drill for MetallicOre, and I've got my MEU-100 drill and I've set it's Bay 1 and Bay 1 Separator value to MetallicOre=>Water.  I don't get what the separator bit does. It doesn't seem to matter what I set the separator to, I still get MetallicOre from the drill. 

The interface on this is a bit odd.  `MetallicOre=>Water` means it's currently set to MetallicOre, and if you hit 'Next' it will switch to water.  However, the change doesn't take affect until you actually swap separators - which costs resources in the field, and requires an Engineer.

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So... I'm trying to get deeper into MKS, which will probably involve building things offworld. But the official wiki page for Ground Construction is just an empty page, saying it needs more information. So, uh... where ought I to go in order to find out how this all works? I'm not asking for hand-holding here, but has anyone written something up?

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1 hour ago, Tokamak said:

So... I'm trying to get deeper into MKS, which will probably involve building things offworld. But the official wiki page for Ground Construction is just an empty page, saying it needs more information. So, uh... where ought I to go in order to find out how this all works? I'm not asking for hand-holding here, but has anyone written something up?

You might have the best luck asking the Global Construction thread 

 

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21 minutes ago, somnambulist said:

You might have the best luck asking the Global Construction thread 

 

Oh! I didn't realize it was its own thing. I thought it was just one aspect of MKS that wasn't well documented in the MKS wiki. Thanks for setting me in the right direction.

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6 hours ago, DStaal said:

Regular drills get large bonuses with an experienced Kerbal operating them - and large penalties if there's no relevant Engineer or Miner around.  So if you're setting up a base and have a place for Kerbal to man it, the regular drill will perform a lot better - but if there's no Kerbal in the ship, the Automated drills will perform better.  I think there's some differences in logistics as well, but I can't remember off the top of my head - something like the Automated drills could push but not pull to planetary storage.  (Which typically would take a Kerbal, as well.)

The interface on this is a bit odd.  `MetallicOre=>Water` means it's currently set to MetallicOre, and if you hit 'Next' it will switch to water.  However, the change doesn't take affect until you actually swap separators - which costs resources in the field, and requires an Engineer.

Ah, wonderful. Thanks for explaining that!

1 hour ago, Tokamak said:

So... I'm trying to get deeper into MKS, which will probably involve building things offworld. But the official wiki page for Ground Construction is just an empty page, saying it needs more information. So, uh... where ought I to go in order to find out how this all works? I'm not asking for hand-holding here, but has anyone written something up?

I found the vids on the main Global Construction page seems to require a bit of prior knowledge, but what really helped me understand the basic process was KottabosGames's mod spotlight vid on it.  It's for an older version of the mod, but still, it gave me the pointers I needed.

 

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Just now, katateochi said:

Ah, wonderful. Thanks for explaining that!

I found the vids on the main Global Construction page seems to require a bit of prior knowledge, but what really helped me understand the basic process was KottabosGames's mod spotlight vid on it.  It's for an older version of the mod, but still, it gave me the pointers I needed.

 

Thanks!

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Dumb question number one zillion from the MKS noob...

I'm trying to build test construction equipment, but the MKS server controller doesn't seem to work the way I'd expect, and the unlabeled inscrutable buttons are no help. I'd swear I saw documentation of the thing on the MKS wiki, but I cannot for the life of me find it. I've also been google searching for anything to help me, but any appropriate search results get swamped by results to do with actual real world servos >.<

Does anyone have a link that would help me out?

Sorry for so many questions. I'm always googling and searching around the documentation first, if that helps. I'm apparently just bad at it in this case.

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51 minutes ago, Tokamak said:

Dumb question number one zillion from the MKS noob...

I'm trying to build test construction equipment, but the MKS server controller doesn't seem to work the way I'd expect, and the unlabeled inscrutable buttons are no help. I'd swear I saw documentation of the thing on the MKS wiki, but I cannot for the life of me find it. I've also been google searching for anything to help me, but any appropriate search results get swamped by results to do with actual real world servos >.<

Does anyone have a link that would help me out?

Sorry for so many questions. I'm always googling and searching around the documentation first, if that helps. I'm apparently just bad at it in this case.

No worries my friend, ask as many question as you need!

I have been using this mod since its infancy and still struggle to keep up with all the bells and whistles that have been added over time.

This is a massive and complex mod (one of many by Roverdude) that adds a whole ecosystem to the game.

The learning curve is steep, it is only right that you have questions!

Questions are how people learn something new, right?

Even if the answers are buried "somewhere" in the thread, your "dumb questions" bring relevant, up-to-date information to the surface for everyone in the community to use.

Thus saving other new people (or old timers like me) hours of searching for out-of-date answers spread across literally hundreds of pages worth of irrelevant, out-of-date posts.

That is a valuable resource for the community, so don't apologise for being on the same learning curve as everyone else. 

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2 hours ago, Smurfalot said:

No worries my friend, ask as many question as you need!

I wonder if it would be helpful if there was a community-created wiki. It's a heck of a task to maintain and develop a complex mod like this, so it is understandable that Roverdude isn't also on top of up-to-date documentation, but it would still be nice to have documentation available. And it would save you 'old-timers' from answering the same questions over and over :)

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12 minutes ago, Tokamak said:

I wonder if it would be helpful if there was a community-created wiki. It's a heck of a task to maintain and develop a complex mod like this, so it is understandable that Roverdude isn't also on top of up-to-date documentation, but it would still be nice to have documentation available. And it would save you 'old-timers' from answering the same questions over and over :)

Have at it:

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki

(That wiki is all community-created.)

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