[1.8.x] Kerbal Foundries -- Continued - Tracks, Wheels, and Gear

[Vanguard-Warden]

Someone know how to turn down the smoke? i can barely see my rover 

[0111narwhalz]

I know you can turn the smoke off via difficulty settings, but I'm not sure about down.

[Vanguard-Warden]

I will try that, thanks^^

[qromodynmc]

Anyone else tried flying planes that has KerbalFoundries part in Far? Today i randomly placed long tank track on my cargo plane, it couldnt take off.

[blowfish]

47 minutes ago, qromodynmc said:

Anyone else tried flying planes that has KerbalFoundries part in Far? Today i randomly placed long tank track on my cargo plane, it couldnt take off.

Do you have the latest KSPWheel (0.9.2.10)?  If not, that's your problem.  With mods that are developing quickly you should always verify that you have the latest version when you see an issue.

Edited February 3, 2017 by blowfish

[blowfish]

9 hours ago, Haifi said:

Hi Shadowmage

The TrackSmall.cfg is missing a module KSPWheelBrakes, added it manually for now. 

Regards Haifi

Are you on the latest KSPWheel?  If not, that's your problem

Edited February 4, 2017 by blowfish

[Haifi]

Its version 2.0.0.1, so its the actual one. No problem on my part, just thought I give the Info for fixing it in the next release. The other Tracks have it, just not the small track. And its not about the KSPWheel plugin its just a missing module in a KF config file.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Haifi

[blowfish]

16 minutes ago, Haifi said:

Its version 2.0.0.1, so its the actual one. No problem on my part, just thought I give the Info for fixing it in the next release. The other Tracks have it, just not the small track. And its not about the KSPWheel plugin its just a missing module in a KF config file.

KSPWheel, not KerbalFoundaries.  The latest is 0.9.2.10

Edited February 4, 2017 by blowfish

[Haifi]

As I stated its not about the plugin its about a KF config file. Everything else works fine, just not the brakes on the small track. And I pinpointed it to a missing Module in the small tracks cfg file.

 

[blowfish]

6 minutes ago, Haifi said:

As I stated its not about the plugin its about a KF config file. Everything else works fine, just not the brakes on the small track. And I pinpointed it to a missing Module in the small tracks cfg file.

 

Oh my bad.  That's what I get for keeping this thread open on multiple devices and getting confused between different posts.  You are correct.  I've created an issue at Github: https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/issues/5 (would submit a PR to get it fixed faster, but not exactly sure how much torque they are supposed to have)

Edited February 4, 2017 by blowfish

[Haifi]

In version 2.0.0.0 it looked like this

Spoiler

MODULE
{
    name = KSPWheelBrakes
    wheelIndex = 2
    maxBrakeTorque = 50
    brakeResponse = 2
}

I don't know if it got lost in editing because Shadowmage wanted different settings, or if it was just a mishap.

Thx for your help anyways, much appreciated 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Haifi

[blowfish]

7 minutes ago, Haifi said:

In version 2.0.0.0 it looked like this

...

I don't know if it got lost in editing because Shadowmage wanted different settings, or if it was just a mishap.

Thx for your help anyways, much appreciated 

Hold on a second, I downloaded 2.0.0.1 and it's definitely still there.  We are both looking at GameData/KerbalFoundries/Parts/TrackSmall.cfg, right?

[Haifi]

Yes, that's the one, now that you mention it, I have a double entry now... Sorry! My bad!

Then I have to figure out why the brakes don't work, altho the module is in there.

Versions on both KSPWheel and KF are recent...

Edit: There's definitively something off... If you have a small light rover fitted with the small tracks its just a little bit bouncey. If you put more weight on them they jump into the air and bounce around until they explode...

If you use the same chassis with the long tracks everything is just fine, plus the brakes work...

Guess I'll try a reinstall first off tomorrow.

Edited February 4, 2017 by Haifi

[Shadowmage]

Hopefully will have an updated release later today.  It will all depend on if/when I get skinning/rigging figured out.  Trying to fix the 'Simple Track'... which is anything -but- simple from a config/modeling/plugin perspective (silly left/right sidedness).  Sadly I have not been able to get any modeling asset files for the original models, so having to 'clean up' the model as imported by the .mu importer (which is a huge mess; no fun).

So far I've got the vertex groups figured out mostly; working on the hierarchy setup and keeping things 'simple' (the default blender armature rigging is retarded, bones don't count as objects, and cannot actually be parented to while in blender).  After I get the hierarchy figured out, shouldn't be to difficult from there -- bit of plugin coding to handle the left/right swapping, and done.

If/when I have it fixed up I'll post up a new release; also has quite a few other fixes in it, so hoping to be able to get it out sooner rather than later.  Perhaps a few hours, or perhaps next week/month depending on how long the rigging takes me.

Edit:  Have the rigging 'figured out' (at least working for test cases).  Now I just need to finish implementing it for the rest of the bits on the track (each vertex in the track mesh has to be manually assigned vertex weights, which takes -lots of time-).

Edit2: Rigging mostly done; now I just get to fight with stock code (e.g. stock constraints module -- refuses to let me change models, as it loads all of its stuff in the prefab and refuses to reload once the model has been replaced; and that kids, is why I code my own modules...)

Edited February 5, 2017 by Shadowmage

[V8jester]

@Shadowmage I wanted to let you know. I've been working on getting some of my old 1.0.5 build into 1.2.2 with all the new KF awesomeness. And I can definitely say now. All wheel could really use a substantial buff. I am breaking every wheel with almost every one of my old crafts using the new wheels. For example my 190T mobile crane rolling on 8 (scale = 2) Medium wheels. Breaks every wheel when launched. Also every plane I have built (I agree larger than Kerbal scale) also breaks the wheels.

[Shadowmage]

8 minutes ago, V8jester said:

@Shadowmage I wanted to let you know. I've been working on getting some of my old 1.0.5 build into 1.2.2 with all the new KF awesomeness. And I can definitely say now. All wheel could really use a substantial buff. I am breaking every wheel with almost every one of my old crafts using the new wheels. For example my 190T mobile crane rolling on 8 (scale = 2) Medium wheels. Breaks every wheel when launched. Also every plane I have built (I agree larger than Kerbal scale) also breaks the wheels.

What the wheels can support without breaking is directly related to the 'maxLoad' specified in the config.  Quite simply, 190t is far too much for those wheels at 2x scale.  They are rated for 4t at default scale, with 8 wheels = 36t; at 2x scale with 8x wheels = 216t, which is far too close to the given load.  Try 3x scale, which should give 972t max loading for 8 wheels.

(This is why I asked for example builds / loads for the wheels several weeks ago.  There were zero responses.  So you get what you get...)

Edit:  Could some of the wheels use the max-load adjusted?  Absolutely.  Do I have any idea what it should be set to?  Not really, which is why the values are what they currently are...  (without knowing what others' would use the wheels for, I have no method to set the loads properly)

Edited February 5, 2017 by Shadowmage

[V8jester]

I completely understand my friend. I'm a full time building engineer who's going through a divorce. I'm only a part time KSP engineer. The weekends are my only shot to tinker and I'm tinker right now

(So you get what you get I'm afraid) - Please be patient when asking for test results.

[Shadowmage]

8 minutes ago, V8jester said:

I completely understand my friend. I'm a full time building engineer who's going through a divorce. I'm only a part time KSP engineer. The weekends are my only shot to tinker and I'm tinker right now

(So you get what you get I'm afraid) - Please be patient when asking for test results.

No worries, I wasn't trying to get on your case about it or anything, merely trying to explain why the current values are where they are.

Also, I don't remember there being any damage model in any <=1.05 KF versions, so it might just come down to some of the wheels cannot support what they were previously used (or abused) for.  I certainly never popped or broke a KF wheel in 0.90, not sure if any damage model was added for 1.05.

[Shadowmage]

Updated release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/KerbalFoundries2/releases/tag/2.0.0.2

Lots of fixes, see link for change-log(s) and downloads.

[Haifi]

@Shadowmage I answered to the Github mails by e-mail, sorry if you did not receive them / recognize them as mine, I've sent you links to short videos I made of the bouncing tracks in 0.9.2.10  or the absence of it in 0.9.2.8.

0.9.2.11 removed the jumping. But I'll upload a short vid of 0.9.2.11 to show you something that looks like a bopping in the springs that is getting worse the higher you push the spring settings. I think that was also part of my problem with the previous version. It's definitively not present in 0.9.2.8.

Edit: Here's the video

Spoiler

 

Edit #2 link to output.log on my dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gd9cmygoxevf6k1/output_log.txt?dl=0

Edited February 6, 2017 by Haifi
Added video and output log

[Shadowmage]

1 hour ago, Haifi said:

@Shadowmage I answered to the Github mails by e-mail, sorry if you did not receive them / recognize them as mine, I've sent you links to short videos I made of the bouncing tracks in 0.9.2.10  or the absence of it in 0.9.2.8.

0.9.2.11 removed the jumping. But I'll upload a short vid of 0.9.2.11 to show you something that looks like a bopping in the springs that is getting worse the higher you push the spring settings. I think that was also part of my problem with the previous version. It's definitively not present in 0.9.2.8.

Edit: Here's the video

Edit #2 link to output.log on my dropbox

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gd9cmygoxevf6k1/output_log.txt?dl=0

I did not see any 'email replies', sorry.  You need to reply directly on the github issue ticket through the browser; if it doesn't show up there, I'm not going to see it. (I'm not sure why the github emails say you can 'reply directly' as it has never worked as far as I'm aware)

Thanks for the vid and log though; that at least shows me what the problem is.

However it all seems to be working fine when I test it -- craft sits perfectly stable, this is using default values for all settings:

Have you tried offseting the wheels to make sure they are not hitting any of the colliders on the craft (these wheels can and will 'hit' parts of the same craft)?  When you open the debug menu, what does the comp% values read at? (go to settings, KSPWheel, enable debug mode)

Lastly, could you provide a stock+KF only .craft file that exhibits the problem?  (I need to be able to reproduce the problem in order to have a chance to solve it; my test craft have no such issues, and I'm not going to spend a bunch of time trying random craft designs or downloading parts mods just for testing, I simply don't have that kind of free time)

 

Edit:

From reading your log you have quite a few problems with your install that you will need to fix before I'll be able to rely on the log or videos (just a couple examples below...) (This is why I insist on using -stock- setups for testing; I cannot rely on modded installs to not screw things up outside of my control):

[JSIVariableLabel]: Start failed with exception System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer.TerminalVelocity () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer.<GetEvaluator>b__21 (System.String variable, JSI.RPMVesselComputer comp) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer.AddVariable (System.String variableName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer.InstantiateVariableOrNumber (System.String variableName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.VariableOrNumberRange..ctor (JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer rpmComp, System.String sourceVariable, System.String range1, System.String range2, System.String moduloVariable) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.CustomVariable.ProcessSourceNode (.ConfigNode node, JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer rpmComp, System.Boolean& reverse) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.CustomVariable..ctor (.ConfigNode node, JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer rpmComp) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.JUtil.InstantiateComplexVariable (.ConfigNode node, JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer rpmComp) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer.GetEvaluator (System.String input, System.Boolean& cacheable) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer.AddVariable (System.String variableName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer.InstantiateVariableOrNumber (System.String variableName) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.StringProcessorFormatter..ctor (System.String input, JSI.RasterPropMonitorComputer rpmComp) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at JSI.JSIVariableLabel.Start () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 

 

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at WildBlueIndustries.WBILodeIconHelper.SetupLodeIcons () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at WildBlueIndustries.WBILodeIconHelper.Awake () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
UnityEngine.GameObject:Internal_AddComponentWithType(Type)
UnityEngine.GameObject:AddComponent(Type)
AddonLoader:StartAddon(LoadedAssembly, Type, KSPAddon, Startup)
AddonLoader:StartAddons(Startup)
AddonLoader:OnLevelLoaded(Int32)
AddonLoader:OnSceneLoaded(Scene, LoadSceneMode)
UnityEngine.SceneManagement.SceneManager:Internal_SceneLoaded(Scene, LoadSceneMode)

(In theory neither of those should interfere with KSPWheels operation, but it has happened more times than I can count)

Edited February 6, 2017 by Shadowmage

[Haifi]

You're the boss, boss!

That's what I get with a stock craft, stock settings on the tracks and no mods besides KF :

Spoiler

 

Craft file is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/o33v01eeyuzmeny/testcraft.craft?dl=0

Log is here: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gd9cmygoxevf6k1/output_log.txt?dl=0

I activated the debugging, but there's no additional data to be seen !?!

Regards Haifi

[0111narwhalz]

2 minutes ago, Haifi said:

That's what I get with a stock craft, stock settings on the tracks and no mods besides KF :

I'm not seeing the issue on my install, at least not with the out-of-the-box settings. If I turn the damping up, they start oscillating like that. But not as-is.

[Haifi]

It depends on the weight you're putting on it, without the tank its not recognizeable. The more weight, the more its oscillating. And for me its not damping, its the springs setting that makes it oscillating..

[0111narwhalz]

5 minutes ago, Haifi said:

It depends on the weight you're putting on it, without the tank its not recognizeable. The more weight, the more its oscillating. And for me its not damping, its the springs setting that makes it oscillating..

Pulled that very craft out.

Spoiler

 

Settings as they are in the video:

Zero bounce.

Settings to max strength:

Kinda bouncy, but if you aren't looking too close you wouldn't notice.

Settings to max damp:

Violent bouncing.

Settings to max on both:

...Well, I'll let you guess how that went.

 

 

Edited February 6, 2017 by 0111narwhalz