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kevnuke

Rover controls (console)

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This is another reason the controls for console need to be given further consideration.

This just happened to be posted exactly 3 years ago yesterday. I spent an entire afternoon and evening designing a rover to gather the remaining surface science on Mun. Over 6 hours later (real life time) MunRover and the ship that transported her there are finally on the South Pole and ready to get down to business.

I push forward on the left joystick to accelerate aaand BANG!! she takes a nosedive and destroys a part on the front of the rover. I load the quicksave I had just done and try again, going slower this time. Same result, but in slow motion. After reading the thread above and a few others about motorized wheel settings and rover design, I switch the reaction wheels to SAS only and try again. This time it nearly does a backflip. The body is above the CoM and the fastest wheels in the game are below it in low gravity, you do the math.

The bigger issue, however, is something another player said in that thread. PC players are presumably able to set separate controls for their wheels (translational motion) and flight controls (rotational motion). The only thing we get close to that on console is setting all of the Reaction Wheels on the ship to SAS only but then you run the risk of not being about to correct your orientation midair if you take even a small jump too fast. KSP isn't a car racing game, but seriously, why doesn't the game know when you're using tires and switch to some kind of ground vehicle mode? The effort it takes just to get my rover to stop trying to pitch and roll is a little ridiculous. Something as simple as gas, brakes, and steering isn't a lot to ask for.

Edited by kevnuke

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2 hours ago, kevnuke said:

The bigger issue, however, is something another player said in that thread. PC players are presumably able to set separate controls for their wheels (translational motion) and flight controls (rotational motion). The only thing we get close to that on console is a combination of setting all of the Reaction Wheels on the ship to SAS only but then you run the risk of not being about to correct your orientation midair if you take even a small jump to fast.

Question, on the console, are rotational and translational motion combined in the joystick? I.e., does going left stick roll the craft counterclockwise and yaw it left?

If so that sounds incredibly awkward. I quickly looked up some stuff and here 

  it says that players can switch between yaw and roll controls on the fly, regardless of the settings they've chosen.

If this is the case, then wouldn't switching to yaw fix your control problem?

On the PC yaw and roll have different controls to start with (QE to roll, AD to yaw) so it's true that it's not an issue, however we don't set them as such.

From your description though it sounds like at least a part of the problem is with your design. Making a rover that doesn't want to flip on low-grav bodies isn't trivial, and you do need to give it a low CoM and generally make it wide and flat. Also, which way is your control point facing? I.e., does the navball show the horizon in the middle like you'd expect? If not, that's probably the problem right there: the control scheme will behave strangely if e.g. you're looking up rather than forward.

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3 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

Question, on the console, are rotational and translational motion combined in the joystick? I.e., does going left stick roll the craft counterclockwise and yaw it left? 

On the PS4, Radial Control preset, the left stick controls pitch and yaw, whilst the larger bumpers (R2 + L2) control roll.

I've had a similar issue to the OP as, when using the left stick to accelerate or brake a rover, you are also pitching up or down.  Turning the reaction wheels off does help, although there are situations when SAS is really handy if you get your rover off the ground, going over a hill.  You don't seem to be able to assign an action group to toggling the reaction wheels on/off, which is a bit of a pain.  Luckily, my Mun Rover is quite large (mass 22t) so it's only been a problem when trying to brake quickly, using both the brakes and reverse at the same time.  That can cause the Rover to do a wheelie, lifting the front wheels off the ground and so slowing deceleration.

I haven't looked too deeply in the "settings" to see if that provides a solution, but I'll report back if it does.

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37 minutes ago, Clipperride said:

You don't seem to be able to assign an action group to toggling the reaction wheels on/off, which is a bit of a pain. 

Really? Then that's different between the PC and the console versions, because on the PC you definitely can. "Toggle RW" in the action group menu, with the reaction wheel selected.

On my Mun rovers, I usually slave the RW to brakes, because braking tends to pitch it forward, and the RW counters it. An additional benefit is that if I have an unplanned take-off, I can hit B while in the air to correct my attitude, and release just before touching surface to free the wheels.

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22 minutes ago, Brikoleur said:

Really? Then that's different between the PC and the console versions, because on the PC you definitely can. "Toggle RW" in the action group menu, with the reaction wheel selected.

Now you've said that, I'm doubting myself!  I know I tried to assigned the RWs to an action group and wasn't able to.  I'll have to double check to rule out "design incompetence"! :confused:

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4 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

Really? Then that's different between the PC and the console versions, because on the PC you definitely can. "Toggle RW" in the action group menu, with the reaction wheel selected.

There is most definitely a Toggle RW option for all parts that have a Reaction Wheel I the Action Groups.

On a related note, I think I've found a bug with the Toggle Wheel Mode action. It only seems to work once. If a wheel is on Normal, it will switch to SAS Only but then it won't switch to anything else thereafter. Not with the Action Group, anyway. I have to change it manually after using the Action Group for the first time. Can anyone else confirm this?

This is really annoying because I tend to bury Reaction Wheels (or parts that include RW functionality) inside a rover, for example, underneath other parts, making it difficult to simply open their Part Action Menu later during the mission to change it manually.

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12 hours ago, Brikoleur said:

From your description though it sounds like at least a part of the problem is with your design. Making a rover that doesn't want to flip on low-grav bodies isn't trivial, and you do need to give it a low CoM and generally make it wide and flat. Also, which way is your control point facing? I.e., does the navball show the horizon in the middle like you'd expect? If not, that's probably the problem right there: the control scheme will behave strangely if e.g. you're looking up rather than forward.

Brikoleur is right. It sounds like you have too much reaction wheel, and your CoM is too high.

15 hours ago, kevnuke said:

why doesn't the game know when you're using tires and switch to some kind of ground vehicle mode?

Because rovers can also fly. Just put a rocket engine underneath, with the wheels. OK, now how are the controls supposed to work?

PC players face all these same problems with rovers that console players have. W makes the rover go forward, and also makes it pitch down if a reaction wheel is running. Same on consoles. If you want SAS stability during a jump, you need to be ready to flash SAS on and off by holding down the appropriate SAS activation button.

 

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12 hours ago, bewing said:

PC players face all these same problems with rovers that console players have. W makes the rover go forward, and also makes it pitch down if a reaction wheel is running. Same on consoles

well, whe face the same problem, however seems that one common solution is not available to console players: key remapping.

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