kapteenipirk

KNS submarine/sea-plane fleet (WIP) (a new sub and catapult-plane in WIP stage))

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This time doing WIP stuff along with the usual stuff. I taught this would be good idea since im going to be releasing quite a bit of more interesting tech here, so i taught you guys would probably like to see that how it's made so that you can maby do something similar yourself. And of-course avoid doing the same mistakes i will inevitably do :wink:.

The reason why this is a separate post, rather than me including this stuff in the KNS project witch this is still a part of, is because all of this stuff will be a little more connected to one-another. The submarine tender for instance, will have the ability to refuel the new sub im making...that sort of thing, so it only seemed correct to have them all under one roof where they can easily be found.

 

WIP stuff (Gato-class)

There's so much WIP stuff that putting all off it from every craft in one spoiler would be wayyyy to much, so each ship will now have their own spoiler.

Spoiler

Gato class

 

I decided to start working on the Gato-class, and the first thing i wanted to do, was some boyancy test's to see if tweackscaled parts behave like they should.

The answer is NO, they dont.

8pJkj93.png

I had one huge ore-tank in the middle completely filled. Even 10x gravity did nothing...so that's a definite NOPE.

 

HnKpWU7.png

Second test rig used a ore-tank hull, it worked a little better, but was still far too buoyant to even think of making it into a submarine.

 

So, the lesson of today kids: DO NOT use tweackscale on anything if you want to make a working submarine.

So, i will now have to continue with one less mod on the list, and basically do what i did on the "wolf".

 

Time for some more progress. I decided to try a completely new idea and use fairings with the new structural tubes from the DLC, if this idea works, ill save a lot of parts...but since i haven't ever tested those for buoyancy, it's a total guessing game right now.

Just for the fun of it, i might as-well show you my sure to work backup.

5iA2bXh.png

The fuel-tank works as a jig so that i can get the structural panels to be as "circular" as possible.

 

But, here's the actual hull im working on.

nmTwoyt.png

I really wanted an open interior into witch i can place all the technical stuff.

 

The torpedo-tubes i wanted i decided to scarp since they where a little too big.

DxxyetY.png

 

The torpedoes are instead now just hanging in mid air...or water.

UdKEEKq.png

The setup might not be the prittiest, but that's not the point, it's supposed to be simple and functional.

 

And this is what it looks now.

0qL1x3x.png

The nose is complete, and so is the bridge. while i was doing this, i found a new way of getting struts to bend to my will...or like the way they used to.

Recently no offset limits hasn't been working with struts any more, this caused me to drop making rigging as i couldn't get the struts to reach far enough. This time what i did, is that i put down the part i wanted the strut to connect to, and then offset that to it's proper place, thus stretching the strut beyond it's usual limits.

The deck turret on this one is simply just my DD-turret subassembly without the shield.

I wanted to use the @pTrevTrevs retractable drill periscopes, but i noticed from my reference material that the periscopes in the Gato class...for the most parts at-least, are fixed. Plus, i wanted to have a "functional" periscope, that has the BD-armory targeting-camera on it's tip.

I decided to make the bridge a little more my own. I will most likely be making some changes to it, so more details later.

Im trying to give as much info during this build...but i don't thinks there's much else to say for now, i think im gonna make the next update when the hull is complete.

 

Time to continue again

I decided to skip ahead a bit and already completed and tested the sub.

C3jw2cx.png

The rear hull is pretty much empty inside. The ore-tanks are part of the main "ballast-tanks", witch pretty much go trough the entire length of the sub. The only other slightly interesting bit there is the girder i offset from inside the hull to make sure i had a straight as an arrow mounting point for the rudders, it also serves as a mounting point for the batteries and RTG's.

I currently in the latest version have 4 rudders for turning (Big-S 2) and 10 Big-S 2's and 14 R8 winglets for altitude adjusting. The sub also has 14 Goliath engines. Oh, and there's also 17 of the largest SAS modules.

So definitely remember to put plenty of those bits if you want your own subs to work.

 

X3UJ0XC.png

11tusrS.png

The nose is also quite empty on the inside, especially so on the AWACS modification that has no torpedoes.

 

H36isUe.png

This is why i wanted an empty hull, it allows me to place the SAS modules, fuel-tanks, and ore-tanks inside while still being able to access and tweak them easily.

The ore-tanks run the entire length of the tubes, and also extend a little inside the tail section. As for fuel-tanks, some of the fuel comes from the bridge structure, but i also have 6 MK-1 tanks to give little extra range, i didn't want to put any more, as i feared they would give me too much buoyancy. The SAS modules you can see clearly, so no need to talk about those. It would have been a good idea to place a couple of those super coin-cell batteries in there, but their not really necessary as the engines produce a power-plant worth of electricity.

 

1fGnN0h.png

Like i mentioned above, i did some changes to the bridge. It now has 2 fake hatches, a spinning radar instead of the orange ball, and a torpedo aiming device that looks like a pair of binoculars. Oh, and there's also some railings and a small crane on deck with the crew hatches (they have the docking-ports on them in the latest version).

 

And here's something you can add to your own sub, that i decided to leave out due to pure paranoia of unwanted detonations.

bxaYkg5.png

LERYtWN.png

Basic doors for the torpedo-"tubes".

 

And here's a shot of the AWACS version of this sub.

CGGLUZH.png

18 instead of 88, radars (smaller one spins around) instead of a torpedo-aiming device and rangefinder (for the removed deck gun), an extra AA-mount, an AWACS radar, a sonar-pod in the nose, and a big "radar-pod" with a radome in it.

And of-course no torpedoes.

1vWIVO0.png

 

Oh, and before i forget, to get you sub to go underwater, it is advisable to fill you ore-tanks/place them in such a way that your nose is clearly lower than you rear, this will help a lot.

And as far as balance between engine,ore-tanks...i don't really have a clear formula for that as each sub is different, and needs it's own tweaks and fixes.

But, as soon as you get to the point where your can go underwater in any shape of form (for me it has been nose first towards the sea bottom without much control), it's advisable to tweak your ballast first (basically shift your weight), then tweak the engines and control surfaces.

And if your wondering about structural stuff, this one is pretty much completely held together with auto-struts to save parts.

 

And that's pretty-much it for the Gato-class based one. If there is any more info you want, just ask and i will try to provide it.

 

WIP stuff (Prairie based one)

Spoiler

This time there ain't much in the way of WIP stuff, as all of this is very simple construction with a few details sprinkled on top.

Unlike the Great White III witch is pretty much a replica of the Gato-class, this one is a little more my own.

 

So, lets delve in deeper and see how it's made.

fWpJaYB.png

The biggest difference to the real one is the addition of a third funnel and the refuelling crane at the front. I will most likely be relocating the crane and doing some changes, as i think it looks pretty horrible, plus...i don't know if it even works yet.

 

rWFM6M3.png

It would be pretty cool to make the cranes at the back the refuelling cranes, but there's just too long of a way down to the subs deck for me to use them effectively...i mean, yea sure, i could place a really long pole of pistons...but that just looks horrible, but there is always a chance i might go for that.

 

Pretty much the entire hull (minus some bits in the nose), and majority of the superstructure is made from MK-3 hulls. They won't give you the cleanest look, but you save so many parts that way, that it just makes more sense, plus...it makes everything way more sturdy and easy to strut up as-well, though just like in the Gato-class one, pretty much the entire ship is held together with autostruts.

 

Thank god i figured out the way to stretch struts and fuel-lines as far as i want them, as using that, i was once again after a long time able to do some rigging, and for the first time, part-count friendly railings.

BU4NEwB.png

You should be able to see the little cubic struts i attached the fuel-lines to, once those where attached, i just offset the strut to where i wanted the "railing" to end.

One thing i also found out during this build concerning fuel-lines, is that unlike struts, if you attach a fuel.line between parts that are at the opposite ends of a piston, if you move the piston, the fuel-line stretches with it.

 

 

J1LUF2n.png

To get the rigging between the masts, i basically just offset the I-beams from the other mast close enough that i could connect the struts, and then offset them back into place.

 

 

lrX0OFX.png

Since im using IR anyways wit this one, i taught id spice things up a little and add some custom radars as-well.

The big gray plate is supposed to be the "cargo-hatch", the "windows" in the cranes are back-sides of batteries (oscar's in the bridge). I could list all the other details, but i think you can already guess what all the other detail bit's are made out of, and what they are pretending to be, like doors, lifeboat's, rangefinders...that sort of stuff.

 

Oh, and BTW, the hull i use in this one is just a modified version of the "destroyer hull 2" that you can find in the main "KNS reloaded" post.

And that's pretty much bit for this ship for now, just need to do some testing and she'll be good to go.

WIP stuff (Aircraft catapult/catapult-plane)

Spoiler

wRGJuYc.png

WIP stuff (Small attack sub)

Spoiler

9ifm1s0.png

 

Completed crafts

Spoiler

K.S.S Great White III and K.S.S SeaScout

noNNcup.png

(SeaScout in the foreground with Great White III in the background)

 

You can see in the video that i had some problems firing the guns, i don't know why, but BD-armory just seems to have a mind of it's own sometimes. Oh, and BTW, turret turning was bound to 2 and 3.

 

Technical specks:

Top speed:

-Above water:  about 35-40 m/s.

-Under water: about 15 m/s.

Range: not sure, but really not that great.

Armament:

-Great White III: 1x Howitzer, 2x 30mm chaingun.

-SeaScout: 1x 50.cal turret, 2x 30mm chaingun.

Length: 51.9m

Width: 8.5m

Height: 13.6m

Mass:

-Great White III: 786 tons

-SeaScout: 784 tons

Parts:

-Great White III: 377

-SeaScout: 350

Further details will of-course be inside the WIP stuff section.

 

Mods used: BD-armory, Infernal robotic and Making History DLC.

Download link:

-Great White III: https://www.dropbox.com/s/fpmt3vyi9bwixgh/K_S_S Great White III.craft?dl=0

-Sea Scout: https://www.dropbox.com/s/cowhooahfwxug5q/K_S_S SeaScout.craft?dl=0

 

List of completed ships:

Attack submarine K.S.S Great White III

AWACS submarine K.S.S SeaScout

 

 

List of stuff that that im planning on making.

 

Let's start with what im going to likely do first, witch is the Submarine-fleet side of things.

 

Will likely be named K.S.S Kato

Edit: Since my new plan has me mix the Gato, Balao, and Piper, im gonna have to come up with a new name for it (something original), and the AWACS sub that im gonna build from it.

Im thinking K.S.S Great White III for the regular one (was originally the name for a CV and then a BB witch are both gone now),

And maby...i dunno K.S.S SeaScout...or something like that, for the AWACS sub.

vwzRA0Q.jpg

 

The submarine itself will be based on the US Gato-class of submarines.

My plan for this one is to use tweackscale this time to simplify things, as the last time i made a sub, it was filled to the brim with dozens of ore-tank's, struts, control-surfaces...that sort of stuff, and it became a huge mess. Also, the Gato-class is quite big as-well.

Main improvements over the old one will hopefully be:

1. A more reasonable part-count. lesson of today kids: DO NOT use tweackscale on anything if you want to make a working submarine.

Looks like this part will actually happen...well...if my idea of using the new structural-tubes from the DLC with fairings as the hull actually works. Yep, the new hull idea works, and may just be THE way to build submarines, as it gives so many options in size and shape.

 

2. Working torpedo-tubes with torpedo's

The tubes are gone, but it remain to be seen if the torpedoes work, or will they just detonate as soon as i release them. Yep, the torpedoes work, but ive only tested them while staying still, as i fear they will get eaten inside the nose if i fire them from the move.

The torpedoes take a while to actually go anywhere BTW, probably to enable them to be dropped from aircraft...witch kinda sucks in this case, but in general, it's probably for the best.

 

3. much higher speed and bigger operating range (the old one was really slow under water...bout 11 m/s, and had fuel for like 12 minutes).

The speed is definitely bigger and the range is longer, but it still ain't that great.

 

To allow for a longer operating range, and maby even rearming it (rearming torpedo's will be impossible, but other weapons could possibly be rearmed by having a sort of ammo-pallet that could be docked/un-docked using a crane), im going to build a submarine tender.

 

Edit: So, i did some more research by reading some books i borrowed from the library yesterday (mostly to satisfy my interest in the Gato-class, but also to maby get some new ideas), and it seems that the Gato-class was more popular than i taught, as it spawned two new classes that are based on the it, the Balao-class, and the Tench class.

So looks like im instead going to make my own variation of the Gato-class. I also think im gonna make a second Gato like submarine, and turn it into a radar-surveillance sub just like some Gato's where in the cold-war days. Basically they did the same to the Gato as they did with the E-3 Sentry, just take an old craft and stuff an AWACS/AEW style radar and all the stuff needed for it inside. Im planning to give that version a different style of bridge, maby some sort of a radar-dome and im also gonna remove the torpedo-armaments from it...or something like that.

 

With the new Gato-class and AWACS version of it, i taught id also do a smaller attack-sub...if the Gato-class is a success and not a repeat of the previous attempt.

I decided to do this one cause i just felt like it.

 

Probably gonna be named K.S.S Hammerhead.

Now named K.S.S Barracuda.

mUpdpXV.jpg

I think the British E-class should service that ambition just fine, tough i have a bit of a feeling that this small sub wont be so close to the original in the end.

My main hope is to get this one to be more nimble and fast compared to the big Gato (it is about 40m shorter IRL).

 

Dunno the name for it yet. She shall be named K.S.S Mule

Forget the U.S.S Prairie looking one, i don't really like the look of my own version that much...so, say hello to what the new Mule will look like.

9UvfkTj.jpg

My basic plan is to have one of the cranes/hoists on one of the mast's serve as my refuelling crane for the subs.

 

And now to the sea-plane fleet of things.

 

Dunno the name for this one yet either. K.S.S Pathfinder shall be it's name (fit's the task of the ship a little better)

9agJH4T.jpg

Quite small isn't it, basically it's a converted old Clemson class destroyer.

Basically this one will be there more for looks than variety. as the original was used for maintaining of marked landing areas and for ferrying of sea-plane crews, not for refueling or rearming like i originally taught.

Mine will most likely have a bunch of fuel-tanks with lights and antennas that can be dropped in the sea as markers for...whatever it is that you need a marker for.

 

For refueling of sea-planes, im planning on making something in the lines of this.

Probably gonna be named K.S.S Pathfinder.

YWPgKEl.jpg

Dunno what the ship in this picture is (some searching later, U.S.S Pocomoke, a sea-plane tender...lucky me), just happened to come across it and liked the look of it.

Basically i just wanted a basic cargo-ship type thing that i will load with fuel and some sort of refueling cranes.

I also feel that a ship like this would serve as a perfect platform for my aircraft-catapult and the possible recovery-crane for it.

 

If the ship has enough space, and i can make the catapult large enough, i will most likely use my existing "Gladiator" as the catapult plane.

It has some amazing STOL capabilities, so good in fact, that it can be landed on the VAB helipad.

x7el7GR.png

Just need to add some floats and it should be all good, tough it will never be that easy, as sea-planes, especially ones like this are very tricky to get right.

 

As for the other sea-planes that the tenders will be tending to.

 

I have decided to make all the sea-planes custom instead of basing them directly on real-life aircraft.

But i will of-course be taking inspiration from different real-life designs.

 

Edit: some of you may be wondering, that why aren't there anything used by the axis in this project...well, i felt it made sense to stay in the allied side of things for compatibility and because most of the stuff in the KNS project is USN based anyways, plus, most of my research/knowledge is centered around the US navy. I will most likely do some German and Japanise stuff in the future, as im seriously planning on making some naval stories with my ships (or maby even some short films), and for that i really need a rival navy, so don't worry, ive got plenty of that stuff coming in the future.

So, should make for an interesting project. All the WIP stuff will go on it's own section and stay there (there's so much WIP stuff per craft, that every craft will have their own WIP Spoiler), while all the completed crafts have their own section.

I was planning on removing stuff from the "List of stuff that that im planning on making" as i make these crafts, but now i kinda wanna keep it there, so i dunno, it might disappear...or not...or then i'll just put that stuff on their own WIP sections.

 

And there you have it, a nice little growing project. I hope you enjoy following the progress :).

PS: i don't want to clog up the comments with constant updates, so be sure to comeback every now and then if you want to know what's going on (title will tell you the progress).

 

Edited by kapteenipirk
Some more WIP stuff and new ideas/changes

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If you haven't seen it before, you may be interested in checking out an old Gato submarine I built about two years ago:

KBnALWq.jpg

Probably won't work in the latest version of KSP (not that it ever worked well, but maybe you can gain some inspiration from the pictures I have on the thread. 

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2 minutes ago, pTrevTrevs said:

Probably won't work in the latest version of KSP (not that it ever worked well, but maybe you can gain some inspiration from the pictures I have on the thread.

Yes, i remember that one, as well as both of the U-Boats, and they where the inspiration/driving force that made want to do the "Wolf" submarine.

But thanks for the reminder :D, will have to take a look...tough right now i have 3 large books about subs and WWII ships that i just got from the library i have to go trough. Not only for further research/idea sake, but because i just really enjoy reading about that sort of stuff.

Should be able to get at-least a few good ideas from it, even tough my approach will most likely be very different.

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yea the way buoyancy is calculated just by mass/volume so if tweakscale scales the ore tank incorrectly and adds too much volume without enough mass, then it floats. 

quick trick that i found out: if you get really close to neutral buoyancy you can actually use landing gear as "ballast tanks", if you extend them it reduces density so it actually causes your depth to rise

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5 hours ago, Heckspress said:

yea the way buoyancy is calculated just by mass/volume so if tweakscale scales the ore tank incorrectly and adds too much volume without enough mass, then it floats. 

quick trick that i found out: if you get really close to neutral buoyancy you can actually use landing gear as "ballast tanks", if you extend them it reduces density so it actually causes your depth to rise

Hmm, interesting stuff, might have to see about using that "ballast-tank" idea on some future design.

Thanks for the info.

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On 9/11/2018 at 6:28 PM, Heckspress said:

you can actually use landing gear as "ballast tanks", if you extend them it reduces density so it actually causes your depth to rise

 Yes!  But a bunch of landing gear popped out will add lots of drag too.  Pretty realisic if your sitting still tho.  Cargo canisters change buoyancy too with doors open/closed.  We should look into other items that move (solar panels, antennas, etc).

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Sorry it took me this long to get some new stuff here, but i've been keeping myself so damn busy with model projects IRL that i just haven't had the time :confused:.

As expected, the ship im working on right now is the Prairie based submarine-tender.

 

I can tell you, that after going trough all my research material from the library, i have so many ideas for new ships, that soon im gonna have a fully fledged fleet or two with pretty-much everything a real fleet has (well...that has kinda been my goal from the start).

Oh, and then there's also that book on modern navies :confused:...i really should get all the ship names up on some notebook so that i can remember them (searching them on google and saving the picks might be a better idea tough).

For this project tough, there aren't really any ships left in the USN arsenal, (scratch that, there are tons more) but there are always some Japanise ships that would fit.

 

And just for the fun of it :D, and to prove ive done my research ;), why not show you some other possibilities for variety sake's (beware, as there's a lot of this stuff, but not all of them...basically USN, IJN, Kriegsmarine and Royal navy)

Spoiler

Royal navy

HMS Adamant (submarine tender)

viyAnZi.jpg

 

HMS Woolwich (submarine depot ship)

arV9oif.jpg

 

HMS Tyne (tender of some sort)

W7Yr8Ws.jpg

 

HMS Maidstone (submarine depot ship)

pzTO7DY.jpg

 

And a selection of small converted trawlers and PT-boats.

 

US Navy

 

Fulton class and Vulcan class (pretty much the same as the Prairire)

 

USS Altair (destroyer tender)

yqykzmW.jpg

 

USS Klondike (destroyer tender)

bhbxvPi.jpg

 

Tangier class (Pocomoce belongs to this)

 

Barnegat class (sea-plane tender)

SoNfloO.jpg

 

Cumberland sound (sea-plane tender)

aaAxtiH.jpg

 

USS Currituc (sea-plane tender. Already replicated)

8yALoWj.png

c8NApOu.png

 

USS Griffin and Fulton class (says it right on the plaque)

FoP7gHe.jpg

 

USS Whitney (destroyer tender)

MVfJkWq.jpg

 

USS Melville (again, pretty obvious)

y8cchiu.jpg

 

Probably a whole bunch of converted destroyers and other small crafts (like the USS Ballard)

IJN

 

IJN Kamoi and notoro (only slight differences between the two)

iEqMSJh.jpg

 

IJN Trugizaki (submarine tender)

qyVv8YJ.jpg

 

IJN Taigei (submarine tender)

FULgvAS.jpg

 

Wouldn't be surprised if there where some converted destroyers and other small crafts too

 

IJN Tiyoda (sea-plane carrier)

Qkhrr7F.jpg

(the ship on the lower part of the photo is, the light aircraft carrier Zuiho (if im not mistaken).

 

IJN Akitsushima (sea-plane carrier)

XnkCwNK.jpg

hOdCwwH.jpg

 

Kriegsmarine

 

Buzzard (sea-plane carrier)

5M9xGJ5.jpg

 

And a bunch of old converted trawlers and destroyers.

So, lot's to choose from, even in this front. And there are plenty more to go on if your willing to dig deeper, look at other navies, and look at all the stuff before WWII.

Something like the Taigei and the Tiyoda i will most likely make once i get to the enemy fleet side of things (basically Germany and Japan, and maby Italy), but that remains to be seen.

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I know im kinda braking my own rules by posting to the comments so quick, but i created something today that deserves it's own mention...i mean seriously, i think im in love.

Plus, there's also a pretty awesome little design i did some time ago that i was supposed to include in this project, but didn't because of it having such a high part-count.

 

Alright, let's start with the design that i absolutely freaking love.

wq4ujA6.png

If your wondering, "hey, i think ive seen that before" you would be right, as this is the old SeaMaster...MK III in this case.

I used to really like this aircraft when i originally created it, but back then it was a laggy mess that was a bit hard to operate with a mess of different engines powering it...but now, it's exactly the way i wanted it to be when i first imagined this Sunderalnd'ish sea-giant...it's easy to fly, has "4-engines" and can takeoff from water without the need of extra boosters :D:cool:. Pretty much the plane of my dreams.

 

Well...why not just show you what it looked like back then.

Spoiler

1dve4QN.png

The KAX props where way too small and under-powered, the Goliath's looked way out of place, and the shuttle-engines where way too fuel-hungry.

But, i still really liked the overall design, especially the double-decker fuselage and the surprisingly simple and low-part custom cockpit.

IqUHmOC.png

 

Those "4-engines" are actually a combination of 12 engines.

I call this new engine the "Poseidon", with a thrust of about 1000 KN per engine, it's quite the beast. Basically it has a scaled up Wheelsey working as the engine cowling, a V22 Osprey engine ("Kitty") as the propeller, and a Goliath as the intake for cooling and stuff.

One little fun bonus in this one is, that remember how Stukas had the signature...howl...or whatever you wanna call it when their diving...well, when you slow down for an attack run, the propellers will slightly over-heat and glow red, warning anyone to run while they still can, as this plane has 4 30mm cannons and 24 bombs/torpedoes in it's arsenal, along with 6 50.cal turrets :cool:.

Spoiler

hsuTgRR.png

 

In order to get this to even happen in the first place, i had to do something i've never done before.

In the retro pick of the craft you can see KAX engines...i haven't used KAX in a LOOONG time, so normally i would have had to rebuild this from scratch (MKII version had dissapeard somewhere), but since i care for this craft so much, i decided to use the old "open the craft file in notepad and remove the engines there" trick, and it worked, but some side-effects where bound to happen.

So, here is what the thing looked after i got the craft opened, re-rooted and so that it can actually be edited

Spoiler

DyO9lV7.png

Yea, some slight corruption, but not too much. There where also some parts that had lost their mirroring, so bit's like the 30mm cannons had to be placed and edited one by one.

 

More detail will be given on release.

 

And now for the other sea-plane. This one was a solo project, so that's why it has so much detail and such a high part-count...it just wasn't designed to operate with other crafts around it.

The design of this one is quite heavily based on the old British "Supermarine Stranraer", a twin engined bi-plane flying boat, that if i remember correctly, didn't do so well and was quite unpopular at first.

But, i really like the design of it, and a lot of other bi-plane type sea-planes from the same era.

byZrmEQ.png

This one carries the colors of the Search and Rescue squadron.

 

Spoiler

nPdMGU3.png

 

9lPLkp8.png

(i lost the nose-turret during that landing)

 

Oh, and btw, i think that all the sea-planes in this project will be custom designs. I just have so many good ideas in my head, and i can still remember all the troubles i had with my old Catalina like sea-plane...missing engines and upside-down explains it pretty well :confused:.

Edited by kapteenipirk

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