Where to start?

[NuxMorpheus]

Hello Guys!

 

Just bought the breaking ground DLC and I am back playing kerbal after a while. It has been a time and I am remembering how to play the game. So far I managed to land in mun, and rescue Jebediah from mun orbit(He run out of gas).

So, my question really is: How to start exploring the contents of breaking ground DLC? Can I deploy these science modules on Kerbin first? Or maybe it is better to send then to mun first?

 

Thank you in advance!

 

[Okhin]

I tried deploying them on Kerbin, but iirc they do not bring an interesting amount of science. That or they need to not work on Kerbin, I do not remember the specifics. So yeah, send them to the Mun, it's best (what I should do soon is probably a small lander/base that I can deploy permanently on different biomes on Mun. Also, with the antennaes it would help establishing a surface relay network and cover some of the issues I currently have. I'm not really motivated yet by extremely precise satellite positioning (especially since in my career I do not have yet big antennas that I could leave there forever, I instead have a bunch of small antennas on highly excentric and inclined orbit with 5G antennas.)

But yes, send them to the mu, it's not worth it letting them on kerbin.

[NuxMorpheus]

Thank you. I am trying to make the best of kerbin resources to gain science. I often craft a rudimentar roover to get science arround the base before exploring further outside of the planet. Will try to make a small base in mun as well to put the new parts of the DLC in use!

[AHHans]

Well, there is no right^(TM) way to play KSP, so you'll have to decide what you like doing yourself.

My comments about the deployed science: I deployed a station on Kerbin mostly for completion, the amount of science you get there is minimal. The most "interactive" deployed experiment is the seismic sensor: that doesn't just give you the science over time, but you need to so something to get the science. Getting the science from Kerbin is easy: all the stuff that just happens to fall of your rockets during launch will trigger enough seismic events to get the full data. Seismic science on CBs without atmosphere is also easy just crash some leftover junk (spent stages) onto them and you'll probably get the full data. Duna was hard, I actually had to build a dedicated impactor craft to get through the atmosphere with enough energy. (And you'll need to follow it through until it crashes, AFAIK it doesn't trigger the seismic detector if a craft is just deleted in the atmosphere.) Eve is a *bleeep*. My first two dedicated impactors that I "just" dropped from orbit gained me a total of 5% of the science. The next two are "cruise missiles" in order to hit close to the sensor, and with rockets for a final sprint to maximize impact energy. But those are currently in transit.

There are also the new surface features. Hunting for them on Kerbin and the other CBs is quite fun. (The green sandstone on Minmus is hard to find, but it can be done!) It also gives some invective to rover around Kerbin (which I didn't really do before).

And finally there are the new robotic parts. They open up a whole new world of design opportunities. Just flying around Kerbin and doing aerobatics in a propeller plane is fun. They handle a lot different than a jet plane: you can essentially stop a propeller plane midair (or on the runway, if you really have to, ) by setting the blade pitch to zero. Want to build a folding-wing propeller plane to explore Eve? That can go anywhere on Eve on solar power and then ascend through the thickest part of the souposphere on solar power before starting the rockets to get back into orbit? Can be done!

[KerikBalm]

On 1/6/2020 at 12:34 PM, NuxMorpheus said:

Can I deploy these science modules on Kerbin first? Or maybe it is better to send then to mun first?

You can do it, there's no downside to doing it. It can be a good idea to do it, to make sure you know what you need to bring, and how the deployment system works... although its not that complicated, and you can probably just read about it and get it right the first time.

On 1/7/2020 at 11:17 AM, AHHans said:

Want to build a folding-wing propeller plane to explore Eve? That can go anywhere on Eve on solar power and then ascend through the thickest part of the souposphere on solar power before starting the rockets to get back into orbit? Can be done!

I'm not saying it can't be done, but I have yet to see an Eve SSTO using the rotors. What I have seen and done are proof of concept ideas for a rotor based booster that will climb over 10km on rotors, then fire rockets to get an Ap up to space, where an orbiter detaches and gets to orbit fast enough to switch back to the booster and land it. Then you need to land the orbiter close to the booster, somehow reattach it (using robotic hinges, servos and pistons perhaps?), refuel it, and then its ready to go again.

[AHHans]

1 hour ago, KerikBalm said:

I'm not saying it can't be done, but I have yet to see an Eve SSTO using the rotors.

Oh, but I'm 99% sure that an SSTO with the BG rotors cannot be done. At least not without massive part clipping, part offsetting or similar shenanigans. The propeller blades add significant drag but also have a hard-ish limit at 20km altitude on Eve. That together makes it so hard to build an SSTO, that I won't bother trying anytime soon. But that "folding-wing propeller plane" that I was talking about is not an SSTO, why should it be? My version is fairly hard to fly without breaking anything, that's why it isn't on KerbalX (yet?).

And, btw., what you call "proof of concept" pretty much describes my Eve Transportation System (including the robotic hinges to re-attach the two parts).

P.S. Sorry for the self-promotion, but you set it up so nicely.

[KerikBalm]

On 1/7/2020 at 11:17 AM, AHHans said:

a folding-wing propeller plane to explore Eve? That can go anywhere on Eve on solar power and then ascend through the thickest part of the souposphere on solar power before starting the rockets to get back into orbit?

3 hours ago, AHHans said:

 I'm 99% sure that an SSTO with the BG rotors cannot be done

Ah, I guess I assumed your solar powered plane with rockets that gets "back" to orbit wouldn't stage, but I suppose what you said is compatible with a plane that stages to get back to orbit.

 

[AHHans]

19 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

Ah, I guess I assumed your solar powered plane with rockets that gets "back" to orbit wouldn't stage, but I suppose what you said is compatible with a plane that stages to get back to orbit.

O.K. O.K. I'll put it onto KerbalX. But it doesn't fly well (I think worse in 1.8 than in 1.7.3), and it suffers terribly from bug #23924, so much that I cannot land without using the cheat menu.

Edit: You can find it here: Eve Anywhere

 

Edited January 10, 2020 by AHHans

[KerikBalm]

Toot toot eh? 

I haven't really invested much thought in BG rotors for reusable orbital systems on eve, because for some time now I have been playing around with my custom 3x system, which rendered the idea of reusable systems to orbit on eve just not worth considering. I had a save that I've invested a lot of time in, and as soon as kopernicus updates, my toying around with reusable eve ascent vehicles will end. While SSTOs on kerbin are feasible in my system, I already switched to a reusable carrier plane and separating orbiter for time and efficiency reasons... Similar to what one must do on stock eve.

Instead I have focused more on rotor powered VTOLs for building/moving surfaces bases, fuel, gathering science, etc. Initially I was thinking I wanted a cruise speed of 200m/s to beat a "sturdy" rover that can go over the surface at 50m/s at 4x time warp... Since rotors don't really work at even 2x time warp... But if you can climb high at around 100-150 m/s, feather the props, then stop rotors and glide for a while at 4x time warp, you can use BG to cover a lot more ground on eve or duna than even the most stable and speedy rovers (for the same amount of playing time)

Also, Eve submarines are a thing now, and you can edit the game to make surface features that only show up under the water, to give a reason to go out there and take a plunge.

Edited January 10, 2020 by KerikBalm

[AHHans]

13 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

But if you can climb high at around 100-150 m/s, feather the props, then stop rotors and glide for a while at 4x time warp, you can use BG to cover a lot more ground on eve or duna than even the most stable and speedy rovers (for the same amount of playing time)

Ah, I haven't considered that.

My approach to that issue was to put the plane into a stable configuration, nose down a bit as it rises over time, and then start answering questions on the forums / browse the web / take a shower / whatever.

[KerikBalm]

Makes me wish they had a "hold level" SAS function. As for the just go afk scenario, you can do that with a really stable rover too.

[AHHans]

33 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Makes me wish they had a "hold level" SAS function.

Oh, my! Yes. That would be great.

34 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

As for the just go afk scenario, you can do that with a really stable rover too.

O.K. Your rovers seem to be more stable than mine.

[KerikBalm]

@AHHans    Well, reaction wheels + really wide base + low center of mass+ not using them on low gravity bodies.

If you really want, you can make very stable rovers for AFKing. I don't do it except for fun experimentation

One thing that you can do with BG is use hinges and extending pistons to make wide wheelbases for stable rovers that are still fairly compact and easy too launch (make a rover that you can afk without using BG parts, and it will be difficult to launch it because of drag and potentially destabalizing the launch vehicle.