[0.21.1] KAS v0.4.3 - Struts, pipes, part storage, containers, merged winches & more

[Mihara]

Here's an unorthodox use of KAS that I figured out:

I've been trying to mark locations on the ground in such a way that I could target them from orbit in a permanent fashion without recording coordinates. The obvious way to do that is by dropping a probe lander there, since it will show in map view forever until you delete it, however, that's a chore for numerous reasons and a pain to do precisely -- and doing that by detaching it from a rover is an even bigger pain to do precisely as I've found out. Moreover, once it's there, it can't be moved -- and if you forget to rename it before the battery runs out, you can't do it afterwards. While we have been promised flags, there's no telling if they will be movable, and such a device would be very useful for MechJeb to land precisely onto with a kethane mining setup like shown in the post right before mine. Wouldn't it be nice if kerbals could have a navigaiton marker they could pick up and carry?

Well, after glancing through KAS source, I found that with KAS, they can! I took the model of the small stock probe core (OKTO2 to be precise) and made this:

name = LCL_Navigation_Beacon
module = CommandPod
author = NovaSilisko

mesh = model.mu
rescaleFactor = 0.25

CrewCapacity = 0

node_stack_bottom = 0.0, -0.0610621, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0
node_stack_top = 0.0, 0.0610621, 0.0, 0.0, 1.0, 0.0, 0

cost = 230
category = Utility
subcategory = 0
title = Navigation Beacon
manufacturer = Probodobodyne Inc.
description = A kerbal on EVA can detach this from a ship and position it where he needs it to be so it can be targeted from orbit.

attachRules = 0,1,0,1,0

mass = 0.001
dragModelType = default
maximum_drag = 0.2
minimum_drag = 0.15
angularDrag = 1.5
crashTolerance = 80
maxTemp = 1200

explosionPotential = 0

rotPower = 0
linPower = 0

Kp = 1.0
Kd = 1.0

vesselType = Base

MODULE
{
	name = ModuleCommand
	minimumCrew = 0
}

MODULE
{
	name = KASModuleEvaGrab			//This module will add the possibility to grab and attach parts from Eva. If the part is not connected to a winch, grab will decouple the part and attaching will merge the part to the target vessel.
	grabKey = g				// Key used for grabbing a part
	grabMaxDistance = 2			// Max distance for grabbing a part
	grabBreakForce = 3			// The force that needs to be applied on the grab joint to break. (Not used, as eva don't react correctly to a physic joint) 
	grabbedPartPos = (0.0, 0.06, -0.3)	// Position of the grabbed part on eva
	grabbedPartRot = (280.0, 0.0, 0.0)	// Rotation of the grabbed part on eva

	bayNode = top				// Name of attach node used to align the part in a part bay.

	attachKey = h
	attachMaxDistance = 2			// Max distance for attaching a part
	attachOnPart = True			// Disable/enable attaching a part to another part
	attachOnEva = True			// Disable/enable attaching a part to eva
	attachOnStatic = False 			// Disable/enable attaching a part to a static object like ground or building.
	attachUsingSendMsg = False 		// Delegate the attachment system to another module on attach. (in this case the hook module) If set to false, the attachment will be handled by the EvaGrab module.
	attachedPartRot = (0.0, 0.0, 0.0)	// Rotation of the attached part
}

You can stick several on a lander, land where you please, EVA, detach it like a detachable connector port, carry it on your back to where it needs to be and drop it. If you need to move it, you pick it up and you can stick it back onto the ship or rover to move it elsewhere.

Now if only someone would make a nice model for it, and maybe add a dim flashing green light, it would be perfect...

P.S. Ok, that's the first time I see a model fall through terrain and die. Guess I made it a bit too small, the actual Mun ground is too fragile for it -- it didn't do anything of the sort on Kerbin. This kicked me back to space center, and upon return, the kerbal who dropped the pod exhibited interesting symptoms described by Tsuki a few posts back: I was unable to switch between vessels, unable to go back to space center or call up that menu at all, and interestingly, I was unable to zoom. I got the guy back to his ship, but that didn't help. No lazor system in use, so it's definitely not that.

Might be a useful means to find and eradicate this bug, even.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Mihara
Postscriptum

[Scotius]

Mihara, you are a genius! I ran into the same problem with my kethane miners and fuel hauler using KSP cable to connect: how to land hauler less than 50 meters from miner. Reliably. Your solution would be perfect. I could've put a probe-marker on any miner, then use one of crewmembers to carry it some 30-40 meters away and voila - landing site ready and properly marked. If you figure out solution to the bug please share. Or even better, contact the author of KSP so it could become permanent part of the mod.

[Mihara]

If you figure out solution to the bug please share. Or even better, contact the author of KSP so it could become permanent part of the mod.

I'm nowhere well versed enough with C# and Unity to figure out what's wrong here, but in the meantime the workaround would be just not to let the probe core fall through terrain, i.e. by making it larger (a more reasonable rescaleFactor in the above given part.cfg) -- which should prevent the bug from manifesting, since I think it was it's abrupt destruction while the kerbal who dropped it was still out on EVA that did it. If you drop the probe core, return the kerbal to his ship, and go back to the space center successfully, you should definitely be home free.

P.S. I do hope the author of KSP picks up on this usage and makes a legit part to do it, though, I don't claim to understand everything I wrote in that part.cfg.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Mihara
Postscriptum

[Scotius]

Ok, i will try rescaling to 0.30. Let's hope it will work

[MaHuJa]

For that purpose, I've been using the landing pads from hooligan labs.

One problem I had with using a small rover for this purpose was that it got blown away when the ship landed.

I think that's much of the idea behind the line

attachOnStatic = False // Disable/enable attaching a part to a static object like ground or building.

[Mihara]

Ok, i will try rescaling to 0.30. Let's hope it will work

Upon reflection, it's probably not so much the size as it is the mass. Guess saying something weighs only 1kg and can actually independently rest upon the ground is not to KSP's liking. I'll get back to you when I've had the chance to thoroughly test it.

The bug seems to manifest only if you have been switched to the probe core at the moment it fell through the floor. Otherwise, it going poof happens without issue or further comment from the engine. I've sent my guys on the Mun a tiny lander with three of these things attached and in just an hour they have lost all three this way, even though after the first one, I increased the rescaleFactor to 0.5.

For that purpose, I've been using the landing pads from hooligan labs.

I looked at them and decided against it, they're kinda big, and need something to land them, in turn, which seems like an even bigger chore.

P.S. Something's rotten in the state of Kerbals. If they have a state. With their space program budget, there are some doubts they still do.

Increasing weight actually makes it more likely rather than less that the probe core will fall through the terrain. Basically, as long as the probe core falls onto the ground sideways, which it will normally do when detached from a kerbal's back, it behaves as if it stuck in the ground. Attempting to kick it only increases the chance it will fall through further. I have a regular probe core I dropped from a rover to mark the location of the Monument, and it has, apparently, not fallen through the ground only because it has four extended antennas sticking out of it's sides.

I need a different model to try this on, I suppose. Something generic-looking, kerbal-back-sized, but less likely to have a collision mesh that could possibly behave like that. Any ideas?

Edited May 13, 2013 by Mihara

[Galacticruler]

KospY, could you look into lowering the poly count on the KAS models, or releasing a low poly version of them?

[KospY]

Here's an unorthodox use of KAS that I figured out:

I've been trying to mark locations on the ground in such a way that I could target them from orbit in a permanent fashion without recording coordinates. The obvious way to do that is by dropping a probe lander there, since it will show in map view forever until you delete it, however, that's a chore for numerous reasons and a pain to do precisely -- and doing that by detaching it from a rover is an even bigger pain to do precisely as I've found out. Moreover, once it's there, it can't be moved -- and if you forget to rename it before the battery runs out, you can't do it afterwards. While we have been promised flags, there's no telling if they will be movable, and such a device would be very useful for MechJeb to land precisely onto with a kethane mining setup like shown in the post right before mine. Wouldn't it be nice if kerbals could have a navigaiton marker they could pick up and carry?

Well, after glancing through KAS source, I found that with KAS, they can! I took the model of the small stock probe core (OKTO2 to be precise) and made this:

You can stick several on a lander, land where you please, EVA, detach it like a detachable connector port, carry it on your back to where it needs to be and drop it. If you need to move it, you pick it up and you can stick it back onto the ship or rover to move it elsewhere.

Now if only someone would make a nice model for it, and maybe add a dim flashing green light, it would be perfect...

P.S. Ok, that's the first time I see a model fall through terrain and die. Guess I made it a bit too small, the actual Mun ground is too fragile for it -- it didn't do anything of the sort on Kerbin. This kicked me back to space center, and upon return, the kerbal who dropped the pod exhibited interesting symptoms described by Tsuki a few posts back: I was unable to switch between vessels, unable to go back to space center or call up that menu at all, and interestingly, I was unable to zoom. I got the guy back to his ship, but that didn't help. No lazor system in use, so it's definitely not that.

Might be a useful means to find and eradicate this bug, even.

I'm pretty sure that I see somewhere that flags in 0.20 can be moved. Moreover, they are vessel type, so they can be selected and are marked like any other ships.

I think that it will be better to wait 0.20 for that purpose. That will be more suitable

KospY, could you look into lowering the poly count on the KAS models, or releasing a low poly version of them?

I'm not skilled at modelling, but I'm pretty sure Winn75 already lowered the polycount to something suitable.

However, I let Winn75 answer this question

Hmm..

Neat mod, if a bit confusing now~ But I think I get it enough to use it.

Question, though.

Is the 50m cable length hardcoded in somehow? Because I can't actually get cables to extend beyond that, even if I edit the .cfg. (Using 'instant cable stretch' does not count, mind, although that sort of works, but doesn't actually let you extend normally any more. And it tends to rush back to 50m and lolsplode in the process if you press Release.)

This is not hardcoded. Are you certain to have changed the "cableMaxLenght" parameter in the winch part.cfg ?

Why did u make a connector part? It could have been part of the winch.

I agree, but technically I didn't find a solution to do it. (connector physics and context menu problems)

Edited May 14, 2013 by KospY

[Mokmo]

Is the docking mode a true docking mode when it comes to resources ?

Here's my situation:

3 ships:

Tractor: Enough thrusters to land a few tons on the Mun, normal reservoirs Mono/Fuel/Oxi

Driller: Kethane drills, landed there by itself, Mono/Fuel/Oxi/Kethane reservoirs

Refinery: basically a tank, some winches, kethane reservoir, and the heavy converter, delivered by tractor

When the tractor is docked to the refinery, it receives the converted matters from the refinery directly, but if it's attached with a winch on docked mode that won't happen...

EDIT: Weird thing is that the drill is sending half it's production to the refinery through the winch

[winn75]

Is the docking mode a true docking mode when it comes to resources ?

When the tractor is docked to the refinery, it receives the converted matters from the refinery directly, but if it's attached with a winch on docked mode that won't happen...

EDIT: Weird thing is that the drill is sending half it's production to the refinery through the winch

The docking mode of KAS uses the stock docking system. Kospy made it this way to make the fuel transfers easier with the stock feature and without a complex interface.

I'd love to see your creation. Can you post some pictures so maybe I could help finding the problem?

Also, I think Kethane mod have a ressource loss system when you use converter. Maybe the issue come from this.

[winn75]

KospY, could you look into lowering the poly count on the KAS models, or releasing a low poly version of them?

Do you have performance losses, specifically when you are using KAS parts?

I've been carefull to avoid using to many polygons and clean my models. I also thought that as KAS parts are utility part, there wouldn't be so many of them on a single vessel.

(and that it could give me a reasonable margin on poly number).

Here are some example of polycout to give an idea:

- Hook magnet is 293 vertexes (287 quads in Blender).

- 0.5 winch Horizontal is 150 vertexes (180 quads).

(Unity convert quads into tri : it might raise the number of faces).

I can't really tell if its too high for a game as KSP and I know that some stock parts are very low poly but some are definitly not.

Also, i'm using one or two 512 textures for a model:

-Color/spec map : (png RGBa : RGB for color map + alpha for the specular map as unity requires).

-Normal map : png RGB (i don't always use this one especially on small model, but it can be really useful for saving poly on more detail one

(for instance, there is no poly for the side grooves on the 0.5 winch, this texture saved maybe 200 polys for this model).

[Mokmo]

The docking mode of KAS uses the stock docking system. Kospy made it this way to make the fuel transfers easier with the stock feature and without a complex interface.

I'd love to see your creation. Can you post some pictures so maybe I could help finding the problem?

Also, I think Kethane mod have a ressource loss system when you use converter. Maybe the issue come from this.

This

From left to right: The drill, the tractor (six-branch thingy) docked atop the refinery and large tank (big and useless in this size of operation), and lastly an "orange tank rover" that i somehow landed 600m away...

I already found my error... see where the winch on the refinery's legs ? They're not fuel crossfeed capable!

I am learning quite a lot here

[Tiron]

Also remember that Kethane Refining works by using negative amounts of fuel from the tanks in question (it's a dirty, dirty hack but it works). In the case of Xenon and Monopropellant this isn't much of an issue, because they automagically flow anywhere on the craft. For Oxidizer or Liquidfuel, it has to be set up such that if you replaced the refiner with an engine, the engine could draw fuel from the target tank. This means, for example, that fuel lines have to run from the tank to the refinery, not from the refinery to the tank(because, behind the scenes, the tank is sending negative fuel to the refinery).

[Zero266]

is anything happening with this mod at the moment or are the makers taking a break

[coconut219]

spaceport is off line for maintenance.

Cant wait to get the new version though. probably one of my favorite mods!

[Tiron]

KAS Very, very broken in 0.20. Winches, Hooks, and Connector don't load. I lost two of my flights! D:

[TheUndeadFish]

To get the broken KAS parts to load: Go to the part.cfg file for each and change the line "module = part" to be "module = Part". I haven't tested far enough to see if any of their functionality is broken, but that at least gets them loading.

[Fyrem]

To get the broken KAS parts to load: Go to the part.cfg file for each and change the line "module = part" to be "module = Part". I haven't tested far enough to see if any of their functionality is broken, but that at least gets them loading.

good catch (pun intended)

[ahappydude]

Aha they needed an capital letter, cheers

[TheUndeadFish]

However, now that I've been able to try out the parts in game, they don't seem to be functioning. Either the right-click menus don't show up at all, or if they do the options don't seem to work. Whatever the issue is, it probably goes beyond my currently limited knowledge of KSP modding.

[greenygh0st]

To get the broken KAS parts to load: Go to the part.cfg file for each and change the line "module = part" to be "module = Part". I haven't tested far enough to see if any of their functionality is broken, but that at least gets them loading.

That lets them show up. But all the KAS parts appear to be broken you cannot interact with them at all.

[Mokmo]

Seems that the 3 ships i have connected together (see previous page) are stuck together for a bit...

[Railgunner2160]

When I tried to grab the connector it yanked the whole winch off the ship, this after it survived a 24000 thrust ground to space takeoff of a B9/quantum fuel/KW rocketry/KAS/Advanced Radial Nacelle Engine /OrbitalConstructionRedux Spacedock.....

Note: this was launched in 0.19.1...

[ahappydude]

Have patience

[nikkri]

I so gona use this under my colonation of duna and layle