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philotical

[0.25] ResourceRecovery for KSPI, EL and Kethan DevThread [alpha download]

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Downloadlink is here:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79010-ResourceRecovery-for-KSPI-EL-and-Kethan-DevThread?p=1170691&viewfull=1#post1170691

Yo

It bothers me that alll resources we are able to mine will be lost if a ship is recovered.

It's crap that we have to store everything in orbit or in additionally loaded ships/trucks on the launchpad.

Also the verry much loved Tac-Fuelbalancer feels somehow cheaty if it comes to Antimatter and stuff

So I decided to give it a try to create a Resource-Storage-Thingy..

At first, it's a part less plugin that allows to recover and store resources at KSP/Kerbin from your ship and use them later to fill other ships.

In a second stage, I will add a HUGE part, that can be dropped on - let's say Duna - and from there on, you can recover also resources into this device at duna.

That will basically work like a SC-replacement for other planets - limited to a resource refill ability..

I hope that makes some scence - english is not my native as you might know by now lol

here are the pictures - not here - I'm working on the framework with windows, buttons and stuff..

So be patient.

Javascript is disabled. View full album

Usage:

open the window with Alt+F10

Final Feature List (thank's to the contributors below):

- Recover Resources from Landed Ships all over Kerbin (or any planet with a designated "StoragePart")

- Store Resources at KSP (or the designated "StoragePart")

- Manage the stored Resources

- Change some settings per Resource and general

- Fill the stored Resources in Ships landed at Kerbin (or any planet with a designated "StoragePart")

- Marketplace: Exchange stored Resources to "Kredits" and aquire needed Resources with Kredits

Clarification of this feature: This is no Economy nor is it money - the Kredits are simply used to determine different values of resources by using a value_factor-setting per resource.

For example Antimatter will be more expensive than Kethane - make's sence - does it not?

That Marketplace is a KSP-Money-independent, one page, tiny-effort, only few code lines, addition to the whole - so don't worry, I don't intend to recreate KSP, nor Missions, nor Economy.

You can simply aquire antimatter without cheating by selling Kethane. I love that idea and I will implement it - no one is forced to use it though..

But I'm confident, you'll love it too when it's there..

- Drop a large, designated "StoragePart" on any Planet to get the above feature list also on that planet (except Marketplace).

So far so good..

Edited by philotical

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I've never thought about that, but you're right; it's a bit of a waste. I take it you're programming it yourself. Can you model?

I wouldn't worry about the economic aspect of this for the moment. Wait until Squad implement costs, then the only penalty/limitation should be money IMO.

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Yes, I'll code it - the model will also be mine to do - no problems there..

I'm just new to C# and Unity but other than that.. :-)

I plan to save the data in the persitent file - that is what I'm currenlty working on..

Economic - I've never seen it as economie - just as a alternative way to get "within the rules" to some resources..

I mean we can have LFO unlimitd - so I assume there are providers for resources on Kerbin.

Let's invoke them for HE-3 and let them also care about actinides :-) - for a small obulous - well maybe - we will see..

but - as mentioned - it is a step for future versions - the primary goal is to get Antimatter stored in a non-gambreaking, non-lag-producing manner within the KSC..

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I think it'd be cool if you have like resource tanks essentially at KSC. You then need some way to get fuel to KSC in order to launch ships, and if you don't have enough to fill up a ship all the way then you can't fill it up all the way. Then recovering a craft lets you put its resources back into KSC tanks.

Even cooler would be if you had to mine ore for turning into metal for rocket parts (integration with extraplanetary launchpads); that way you have to actually supply all of the resources for every rocket you build (in career mode only?) and you can't just pump out rockets with no limit. You would have to set up a mining operation on Kerbin in order to get all types of resources for ships you build.

If you were to implement currency (and you get money for missions, scientific discoveries, achievements, contracts, etc.), then I think you would then be able to buy fuel or rocket parts (rather then mine all of the ones you need), because I'm sure not everyone wants to be required to set up a mining operation in a space game.

So in essence: an simplified infrastructure on Kerbin used to provide resources for a space program. Resources can be bought or mined. Would also need some way to transport resources to storage tanks at KSC.

Edit: You could also have like a "market" where you can buy resources, sell craft/subassemblies that you make or whatever, trade resources (if you're short on one thing, trade it to another ksc for what you need), or you can but like rare resource types like He-3 for KSPI.

Edited by horndgmium

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Progress has ben made :-D

Stable Settings and:

It took a while but the fully automatic, self installing and self correcting ResourceNodeStorage is working

Well, some details are missing or can't be tested at this stage - but the base is stable..

The Data is saved to persistent files, once per save


[It's a shortened version - no one needs to see over 30 resources listed here]
SCENARIO
{
name = ResourceRecoveryData
Kerbin
{
name = Kerbin
total_locations = 1
total_number_recource_tanks = 35
total_capacity = 0 (ToDo)
total_capacity_used = 55.55 (May need a fix)
STORAGE
{
capacity = unlimited (0)
modulecount = 1
LOCATIONS
{
LOCATION
{
lon_lat = KSC
capacity = unlimited
}
}
RESOURCES
{
RESOURCE
{
name = Antimatter
storagecapacity = unlimited (ToDo)
storedamount = 10.00
supply_mode = 1
value_factor = 1
display_order = 3
hide = 0
group = none
}
RESOURCE
{
name = UF4
storagecapacity = unlimited (ToDo)
storedamount = 20.00
supply_mode = 1
value_factor = 1
display_order = 5
hide = 0
group = none
}
RESOURCE
{
name = ThF4
storagecapacity = unlimited (ToDo)
storedamount = 20.00
supply_mode = 1
value_factor = 1
display_order = 6
hide = 0
group = none
}
RESOURCE
{
name = UraniumNitride
storagecapacity = unlimited (ToDo)
storedamount = 5.55
supply_mode = 1
value_factor = 1
display_order = 7
hide = 0
group = none
}
RESOURCE
{
name = MonoPropellant
storagecapacity = unlimited (ToDo)
storedamount = 0.00
supply_mode = 1
value_factor = 1
display_order = 33
hide = 0
group = none
}
RESOURCE
{
name = EVA-Propellant
storagecapacity = unlimited (ToDo)
storedamount = 0.00
supply_mode = 1
value_factor = 1
display_order = 34
hide = 0
group = none
}
}
}
}
}

Now on to the GUI..

I got the windows - but they don't display any usefull stuff now..

I think it'd be cool if you have like resource tanks essentially at KSC. You then need some way to get fuel to KSC in order to launch ships, and if you don't have enough to fill up a ship all the way then you can't fill it up all the way. Then recovering a craft lets you put its resources back into KSC tanks.

Even cooler would be if you had to mine ore for turning into metal for rocket parts (integration with extraplanetary launchpads); that way you have to actually supply all of the resources for every rocket you build (in career mode only?) and you can't just pump out rockets with no limit. You would have to set up a mining operation on Kerbin in order to get all types of resources for ships you build.

If you were to implement currency (and you get money for missions, scientific discoveries, achievements, contracts, etc.), then I think you would then be able to buy fuel or rocket parts (rather then mine all of the ones you need), because I'm sure not everyone wants to be required to set up a mining operation in a space game.

So in essence: an simplified infrastructure on Kerbin used to provide resources for a space program. Resources can be bought or mined. Would also need some way to transport resources to storage tanks at KSC.

Edit: You could also have like a "market" where you can buy resources, sell craft/subassemblies that you make or whatever, trade resources (if you're short on one thing, trade it to another ksc for what you need), or you can but like rare resource types like He-3 for KSPI.

You seem to get the point of the plugin quit well - however - keep in mind, that I don't intend to rewrite KSP, MCE, EL and whatever at the same time..

All you suggested would take years, I will try to make it work, than we can assess the potential together - ok? :-)

Here's someone who's already made a nifty model that can be placed at the KSC. And already suggested in that thread "collaborate maybe?"

I've seen it - looks great - although, personally I will not use it for my games - don't like EVA-refulings - takes too much time and I get a lot of lag at KSC on EVA..

I will need a part - later on - but it will not require any other mod to work (looking at you (currently quite)outdated KerbTown)

Oh btw - I decided to use the awesome PluginFramework from TrigerAU (http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/entries/1228-An-Adventure-in-Plugin-Coding) for this project..

Makes life much easier and it's stable..

So kudos to TriggerAU

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Philotical, you're onto a superb and much needed idea here, though for me, personally, you are taking it a little too far.

A system to recover non-VAB resources such as KSPI's Antimatter or He3 after landing them on Kerbin and then add them to a rocket on the launchpad would be a brilliant tool and would fill a big hole in those mods.

I'm less interested however in a market place and credits and all the rest, especially with the contracts system coming up. It's still unclear (unless I've been missing some dev posts) how 'money' in KSP will work in the long term but creating a whole new system with one around the corner seems futile. I also wouldn't actually like to be able to say, sell Easy Resource A and buy Hard Resource B.

Not sure about the collecting on other planets bit either, but I guess it's easy enough to simply not use that functionality if I don't want it - I guess it would be useful for people who use interplanetary construction mods and so on.

In short, you're on to a winner, but keep it simple (or maybe release a basic and advanced version).

Will be watching with great interest, keep up the good work :)

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Philotical, you're onto a superb and much needed idea here, though for me, personally, you are taking it a little too far.

A system to recover non-VAB resources such as KSPI's Antimatter or He3 after landing them on Kerbin and then add them to a rocket on the launchpad would be a brilliant tool and would fill a big hole in those mods.

I'm less interested however in a market place and credits and all the rest, especially with the contracts system coming up. It's still unclear (unless I've been missing some dev posts) how 'money' in KSP will work in the long term but creating a whole new system with one around the corner seems futile. I also wouldn't actually like to be able to say, sell Easy Resource A and buy Hard Resource B.

Not sure about the collecting on other planets bit either, but I guess it's easy enough to simply not use that functionality if I don't want it - I guess it would be useful for people who use interplanetary construction mods and so on.

In short, you're on to a winner, but keep it simple (or maybe release a basic and advanced version).

Will be watching with great interest, keep up the good work :)

Thank's :-)

Your concernes are duely noted and highly appreciated..

The Framework as I have it now allows to manage features flexible..

I guess I will simply add a setting-section, where you can toggle the visible buttons in the window..

So if you don't want the temptation of "sell Easy Resource A and buy Hard Resource B" you can hide that button.

But look at it that way - if you need 30 tons of Kethan to get 10g of Antimatter, the challange is still there..

I don't think the market place is the biggest feature - but I think it will be a live saver if you ran out of something and your launch window is closing too soon to get it the "legal" way.

Most people start cheating at this point - I know I do - so I merly can sleep better, if I can throw out a few tonns of Kethane to get "legally" what I need.

Just for carma LOL

The "Part on other planet"-thing is also simple to avoid - just delete the part from GameData et voilá!

Btw - I updated first post with some more pictures...

To all bypassers - if you don't like it - let me know..

Oh - ehhm - if you like it too ofcourse :-)

Thanks..

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I got an alpha to test..:

http://www./download/c7o5qmyc5mv54ed/ResourceRecovery-Alpha-01.zip

It "should" break nothing - but it still might be a good idea to test it on a clean install or at least backup the SFS file (I never did and had no isues but well..)

Please report all issues, problems, thoughts and feedback!!

Your effort is highly appreciated and will help developping this plugin to a final stage.

Requirements:

None

Suggested Addons:

KSPI

Kethane

EL

They are not needed, but if you do not have at least one of these, you can only store KSP resources and since those are unlimited, it would make the whole thing useless.

This plugin is an extension for any of the above - standalone it's working but obsolete..

Ok - what it does:

- open the window with Alt+F10

- Store all kind of resources for you.

- Resources can be added by extending the Factory-Settings File - HowTo is included

- Refuel your ships as long as you have the needed resources in store.

- The Marketplace allows for StockExchange - the exchange rates are manually set in the factory settings.

- It contains a Part and a PartModule that might show up in llogs - the part does right now nothing and will not work on other planets (no need to test that)

The Part:

The Part is a resized Stock part and will not use any RAM - it is recognized by my script - if you put several of those on Kerbin, you can see some changes in the displayed stats.

And that is currently all it does - but I would like to get some feedback on the usability as a rocket part.

Konsidering you use KSPI, you might not get in trouble lifting it - but does it work in editor flawlessly i a matter of testing right now.

It has some issues with not saving changes in the following instances:

- If you end the game by closing the game window, the changes are not saved!

SOLUTION: change scenes first or use the "Quit" button in Spacecenter

- If you revert a flight, the pre-launch changes made to the store are lost - in essence if you fill your ship with antimatter, start, revert => the antimatter is no longer in the ship but it's gone from the store too!

Solution: hit F5 before you start - than the revert point is fixed after the refueling and all is good.

Those issues seem to be caused by the monobehaviour execution order in Unity (I guess) - on revert, the module settings are saved first. (the empty store get's saved, but not the full ship)

Same for the GameWindowClose-issue - the game terminates all but does not propperly execute the Module-OnSave function.

If anyone knows a solution - please let me know..

Thanks..

Edited by philotical

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Babys can be stored!

Just add this to the factory-settings file and restart KSP:

RESOURCE
{
name = LiquidBaby
density = 0.05
supply_mode = 2
value_factor = 1
display_order = 32
hide = 0
group = other
}

lol JK

So I assume all worked?

Glad to know - at least one tried it - thanks..

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Actually, I downloaded but I haven't installed it yet. Been out of the house for a couple of days. I would be happy to do what I can to give you feedback on this project. This is something I specifically requested on KSPi forums a few weeks ago and it is very exciting to see something done about it.

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Installed. Everything is working as advertised so far! Great work.

Part was researchable from R&D. Was able to recover antimatter from several vessels on the surface, and then add it to a new vessel on the launchpad. Worked flawlessly.

A few initial recommendations I would make:

1. Move the Resource Recovery Planetary Core(RRPC from now on) from the Propulsion tab to the Utility Tab

2. Make the part MUCH smaller. The RRPC is so big that it makes flying with FAR nearly impossible. I would say try half the size it is now. The weight for it's current size also seems kinda off. If you scale back the size though it seem more stocklike.

3eFMWe3.jpg

Those are 3.5 meter parts, which are all dwarfed by the RRPC. I would also like to see the RRPC be cylindrical. This would make it much more user friendly for mounting parts to.

3. Consider integrating the Resource Recovery Manager in with toolbar. I would imagine you just haven't gotten around to this yet.

I haven't yet tried getting the RRPC to another body yet to test it out, but will do tomorrow. I'll have a few more recommendations later, but this will be good for now.

Once again, great work. This is something KSPi was sorely missing; something that severely hindered gameplay.

Thank You.

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Awesome report, highly appreciated - thanks..

important Note:

The RRPC is WIP, not working, not finished and just there as a demonstration how it might look.

So you could skip the test on an other planet actually - it will yield absolutely no effect for now - but thanks for the effort..

Additionally it is not needed on Kerbin to store stuff - the SpaceCenter Tanks are supposedly doing this.

Oh ofcourse you can test the stability of the part - you don't need to land it softly - just drop it - it should hold..

It's made of "bilateral combobulated Kerbonium" - I was told that stuff is thicker than a neutron star.

That is part of the weight issue btw..

1. I will think about it - Although it "feels" wrong - logically it's correct.

Basically it is indeed a huge fuel tank and therefor it is in the supposedly right category..

2. I would love to accomodate you there - but I'm afraid that is not possible without breaking the conept of the mod..

First, to put you at ease, yes - I will probbably provide a few sizes or implement scaleTweak thingy - but they all will be relatively huge, bulky and heavy on purpose.

This one is something like the standard size - planned is a half size and a double size - we will see..

However: Think about it - currently it fits exactly 26 Rockomax orange tanks - that makes a "Modular Fuel capacity" of 166400 units

On Kerbin, you have unlimited storage, on other bodies it will be limited to the summed up module sizes of all dropped modules.

Storagespace is calculated with the density of resources - still working on that one though..

Agreed for antimatter, any size will be more than enough - but Kethane, Liquid, etc - I have to think for all uses..

If you want to be able to store a helpfull amount of "what ever" on Duna, you need that much storage. There are 32 different resources to be stored in a realistic way.

The size is 100% intentionall - also the weight - I mean it's potentionally even stable enough to be literally dropped from orbit - maybe a few chutes for duna that's all.

When dropped, it will give you such a huge advantage on this planet, that the requirement of KSPI to lift it and a complicated, dangerous and expensive slow ascent with FAR is a reasonable price.

I want that launch to be a challange of planetary dimensions - after all it's a "planetary core" - no seriousely! :-P

to make it much smaller would either make the part useless because of too low storage capacity or it will slip too much into cheating for my taste.

All that is not the only valid truth - only my personal opinion, I'm aware of that..

We can gladly have a friendly debate about my reasoning if I didn't convince you - maybe you can convince me that I'm wrong - I'm generally allways open to good arguments and valid points..

Cylindrical: that depends on my animation skills - since the conept is "drop it and forget it", I can't allow the part to roll around for an hour if it landed on a hill side - the user would have to wait untill it stopped to change vessel.

If I manage to make some animated legs, it can become cylindrical - otherwise it will need some shape that does not roll endless.

I have some blender skills - but I've used a rescaled stock model and texture - anyone who wants to make better parts and is willing to share them, will be in the download - the part is exchangable anyways..

just add the module block from config to any part and there you go..

In short - yes - no problem - but maybe not in my download at first :-)

3. It is indeed

However - no promises - I had strange problems with toolbar wrapper in PlanitrolReloaded..

If it's again unsolvable here, I will have to skip that untill someone teaches me how to implement an easy to use wrapper class..

My ineptitude is anoying but real... sorry.. :-D

Suggestions for part names/sizes I just came up with:

Roidal Core

Lunar Core

Planetary Core

Stelar Core

Black hole

Dry weight spread linear betwen 5 Tonns and 120 tonns or so..

At least that weight-scale was allways the intention in my plannning..

More recomendations?

Yes yes - let's figure out the details - I'm new to game coding - I appreciate all inputs - especially from fellow KSPI users.. :-)

btw: I remember your post about storing resources at KSPI thread - back than I was allready planning this in my head and you gave me a bigger incentive to tackle it..

But since I didn't know if I will be able to finish it, I kept my mouth shut - don't like making empty promises.. :-)

I'll get soon back to this, currently still working on that one:

Edited by philotical

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Hi. First of all - it's awesome. I used TACFuelBalancer for this and yes, every time i did that it was like sort of cheating for me.

But i still don't understand the function of RRPC. If I have an extraplanetary base with EL parts, why can't I simply have few regular tanks there for every recourse I want? May be i missed something in description and/or conversation - sorry me for that=)

And secondly - talking about selling and buying recourses - it will be wonderful if you merge it with Mission Controller Extended so we'll be able to sell or store recourses or even make an recourse mining mission for restoring your budget. Now MSE have recycle option but it will recycle the whole craft, and what's not the same=)

P.S. Sorry for my english and the fact that "awesome" is the only word that i know to say that something is very good=)

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Thank's for the flowers.. :-)

RRPC:

sure you can have many different solutions - the RRPC offers the one single advantage of beeing able to refill/recover resources in your ship withuot docking to your station.

Just land somewhere on the planet and hit alt+F10 and do your thing..

No pipes, no lazor, no docking - just plain and simple - it is a very conveniant way of doing something that is possible in other ways too.

However - imagine you have a EL base and you send out an EL-miner for ore.

Now the miner has to move to a different field wich is 9 Km away on minmus - driving that far everytime the tank is full is dangerouse tidiouse and boring.

if you have an RRPC on minmus, hit alt+F10 and transfer the ore from the miner to the storage, change vessel and do it again to get the ore to the melter.

MCE:

nahh - MCE is soon to be relieved by an official money/mission system (I heard in .24 allready) - I will definately wait until then.

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Very nice. I saw this when you first posted about it and thought that was pretty cool. It looks like you've come quite a ways with it. Looking forward to trying this out.

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Howdy!

A few requests:

Could you put up the source on your github repo? I'm not gonna yell at you about the forum rules requiring it. :D But from the LICENSE.md I assume you intend to release under GPL3 and I'd really like to play around with the code a bit (e.g. option Toobar integration).

I think you need to set a few more resources to "unlimited" for the marketplace. Right now one can easily plonk a few dozen Helium Cryostats on the pad, empty them out and buy tons of antimatter and/or HE-3. (Yes, I know it's configurable, but I'm a strong believer in sane defaults. :) )

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Very nice. I saw this when you first posted about it and thought that was pretty cool. It looks like you've come quite a ways with it. Looking forward to trying this out.

Thanks..

Howdy!

A few requests:

Could you put up the source on your github repo? I'm not gonna yell at you about the forum rules requiring it. :D But from the LICENSE.md I assume you intend to release under GPL3 and I'd really like to play around with the code a bit (e.g. option Toobar integration).

I think you need to set a few more resources to "unlimited" for the marketplace. Right now one can easily plonk a few dozen Helium Cryostats on the pad, empty them out and buy tons of antimatter and/or HE-3. (Yes, I know it's configurable, but I'm a strong believer in sane defaults. :) )

License: yup OS

Source: yup will do.. - might take a few days though..

I'd rather take the link down now than unloading the impulse drive project from my IDE - "tunnel" you know..

Toolbar: please do - I had it working as hardcoded - but the wrapper does not work - I get reflection can't find type exceptions all over the place..

I thought I might try at a later date once more - but if you contribute that part - you earn my undevided gratitude :-D

So, please bare with me until I get the git done..

About defaults:

Sure didn't think of that - you can incooperate all fixes you deem necessary in a factory file and post it here so I can adapt your suggestions.. :-)

Thank's..

Or if it was just the Cryostat, than never mind..

As a general info:

The factory settings file is a community project - I am fully aware, that it's important and that it's not in the least perfect now..

Every input that is reasonable and conforms with the general idea of the plugin will be implemented..

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License: yup OS

Source: yup will do.. - might take a few days though..

I'd rather take the link down now than unloading the impulse drive project from my IDE - "tunnel" you know..

No worries, I'll play with it when it's ready.

Toolbar: please do - I had it working as hardcoded - but the wrapper does not work - I get reflection can't find type exceptions all over the place..

I thought I might try at a later date once more - but if you contribute that part - you earn my undevided gratitude :-D

So, please bare with me until I get the git done..

Shouldn't be too hard I hope. We'll have to see.

About defaults:

Sure didn't think of that - you can incooperate all fixes you deem necessary in a factory file and post it here so I can adapt your suggestions.. :-)

Thank's..

Or if it was just the Cryostat, than never mind..

Oh, there's more. At them moment it's relatively easy to game the system. I'll shoot you a pull request when git is up.

EDIT: I might be getting ahead of myself, but what do you think about these as Toolbar icons?

Edited by jinks

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Shouldn't be too hard I hope. We'll have to see.

That's what I thought - but it bugged me at planitron and came back here..

So it's a returning issue for me..

I might be getting ahead of myself, but what do you think about these as Toolbar icons?

Looking good..

I had something similiar in mind anyway..

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Ok jinks here it is - The Worlds most messy Git - proudly presented by me

here is the currnt working version:

github.com/philotical/ResourceRecovery/tree/master/ResourceRecovery/NewFolder1/version-0.1.11

The rest is outdated.. - so just ignore it all..

but you'll find all my previouse toolbar tests there too..

here are the icons hidden I made once..

github.com/philotical/ResourceRecovery/tree/master

I made 2 one for flight and one for space center..

ok ok - I promise I wil clean up the Git as soon as I find out how lol

Edit: ok I cleaned up a bit allready..

Current Dev version: https://github.com/philotical/ResourceRecovery/tree/master/ResourceRecovery/DEV/version-0.1.11

Icons: https://github.com/philotical/ResourceRecovery/tree/master/old_stuff

this file has the monobehaviour: ResourceRecoveryController.cs

Edited by philotical

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Are you thinking of adding Toolbar support? Alt+F10 is a rather funky key combo and I think most people would appreciate a regular button.

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Are you thinking of adding Toolbar support? Alt+F10 is a rather funky key combo and I think most people would appreciate a regular button.

yes it's planned - but the toolbar wrapper keeps bugging me with reflection exceptions I canot debug since they are not located in my code..

But I won't give up..

maybe jink's above let's his offer follwow deeds and he'll be able to do it.. - we will see..

So, it's like an old Refuel Assistant System mod? Sounds very interesting! ^_^

And yes, you definitely need blizzy's Toolbar integration these days... ;)

wow - I never heard of it - how old is it?

btw - your link is broken or removed - but google found it on a KSP mod page, I didn't know so far..

Yes - it seems to be quite the same - though..

How did the "simple Taylor" named Garak put it once

"I believe in coincidences - I merly don't trust them"

lol

Sorry about the star trek pun- a bad habbit..

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