Steam Workshop

[Athlonic]

Are we talking about KSP mods here? Or are we gonna talk about 320 different games with 320*X mods you are using for them?

EDIT: And just let me rephrase that a bit, i dont want to sound hostile or whatever.

Are we talking about KSP mods installation and updates through Steam Workshop? Or are we talking about Steam in general? Cos if its the latter then i dont think this thread even belongs in this section of the forum.

EDIT2: "Got busted by sal_vager" *Ruuuunnns awayyyy screaming: AAAAARGHH!!! I wont do it agaiiiiin!!!!!

Absolutely no problem here Thourion

What I wanted to say is that Steam workshop is simple and handy regarding mods management.

But honestly, after seeing how Curse was "accepted" by the community here, I don't think we will see Steam Workshop support for KSP.

Personally with around 50 Mods installed, I am using the old (but still perfect) JSGME mod manager, and with "KSP AVC Add-on Version Checker" Mod (thanks Cybutek) I am pretty happy for now.

[Geneborg]

Yep, using JSGME too, it only lacks an automated version check, but i don't want an automated update either...because we see "bad updates" all the time. I play with several mods that are not up to date because of flaws in newer versions.

EDIT: thats why i have disabled automated updates in steam too.

[razark]

JSGME. I use it for all my modding needs. I don't update my mods that often. I've got a couple that have "update me" messages that I've been ignoring. I would rather download the new version myself, convert it for JSGME, and swap it in. That way I can easily swap back if things go wrong.

However, it's not a "one click" solution, and it requires you to understand how files and directories work, so it's not for everyone.

[pxi]

Frankly I think that if a one-stop solution would work for everyone, it would have been Curse.

The reality is somewhat different. We already have several different locations to source mods from, and not all mods are available from all sources.

There are many games out there that are sold independent from Steam, but also include workshop support. I cite for example, Space Engineers, Mount & Blade, Game Dev Tycoon, Prison Architect and Crusader Kings 2 - all of which are available for purchase direct from the publisher, as well as via steam.

The authors of these games are doing this presumably not to alienate their non-steam playerbase, but to attempt to better serve those that do use Steam.

Edited October 5, 2014 by pxi
Moar citations

[Xaiier]

...There are many games out there that are sold independent from Steam, but also include workshop support. I cite for example, Space Engineers...

This is incorrect. You can purchase SE from their site, but it just gives you a steam key.

[r4pt0r]

This is incorrect. You can purchase SE from their site, but it just gives you a steam key.

and his other examples?

The question is why cant squad just enable the workshop for those that want to use it? How much work is it on their end to allow it?

[Xaiier]

and his other examples?

The question is why cant squad just enable the workshop for those that want to use it? How much work is it on their end to allow it?

I didn't intend to get dragged into this conversation, I honestly don't know about the other two and just wanted to make it clear.

Enabling the workshop for those that want it isn't particularly difficult, but it is a non inconsequential amount of work which would only benefit those who use Steam, and it also creates yet another mod location which modders will be expected to support. Modder support is a major driving factor behind whether such a thing would be successful. (we all saw the Curse catastrophe)

I'll quote Kasper because he said it well:

The problem with Steam Workshop is that a large portion of the userbase doesn't use Steam. In fact it's the same as Squad saying they'll use PhysX or CUDA GPU acceleration for NVidia GPUs to calculate physics more efficiently so that people who have NVidia cards could build 2000-3000 part stations. It destroys the (mostly) level playing field that KSP offers to users of all systems. The only platform differentiation I can think of that exists right now is the fact that OSX doesn't have a 64 bit executable yet. I know Squad commented that's on the roadmap at some point though.

Anyway, back to Steam Workshop: I think it would become a mess. Modders would be endlessly harassed to put their add-ons on the Workshop even if they don't want to, and I can tell you some will not want to. And what happens people who have a store version of the game? So then the modder also has to upload to Curseforge and Kerbal Stuff, and keep track of all the versions of his add-on that are going around. In fact on the flip side some add-ons may only become available on Steam workshop. I don't really think it'd be a good thing for the modders or the non-Steam users to implement Steam Workshop.

[r4pt0r]

Id also be curious on the sales numbers. how many are steam and how many aren't? I can only see how many people logged in at least once(on steam)

Edited October 5, 2014 by r4pt0r

[Xaiier]

Id also be curious on the sales numbers. how many are steam and how many aren't? I can only see how many people logged in at least once

Sadly that data has never been and probably won't ever be released by SQUAD. You may be able to coax percentages for each platform out of them though.

(I've heard the reason was they were worried to say it due to their geographic location, among other things)

[Dunbaratu]

The biggest argument against using Steam Workshop is the fact that I heard is one I totally agree with, and that is that it allows a mod developer to develop for ONLY the Steam portion of the KSP userbase if they so choose, and that's not an option that SQUAD wants modders to have as it splits the community into haves and have-nots, and worse yet the ones who are the "have-nots" in that division include all the *earlier* adopters who were loyal customers who got into this fun quirky little startup game from the early days before it was on Steam.

Steam Workshop isn't like Curse or KerbalStuff or any other hosting method that's allowed because it's specifically only for people who have the game via Steam and isn't an open-ended site that can be used by all owners of KSP universally. Sure a lot of people don't like using Curse and don't want to, but that's not a decision that's attached to *Paying out money* like not wanting to have to re-buy the game on Steam is.

I concur totally with this decision and applaud SQUAD for it (despite being a Steam user myself who got the game from Steam). Things would be very different had the game *started* on Steam and stayed there, then it might have made more sense to go with Steam Workshop because there'd be no splitting of the community that way.

However, it occurs to me that there *IS* perhaps a solution to that problem that is maybe being overlooked here:

Lots of mod hosting sites have rules and checks the mod packages have to pass through to be allowed to be hosted there. Often they have to include a description file with version and so on. Often they have to pass a virus scanner. Often they have to include the license in a certain format.

What about the rule "To be hosted on Steam Workshop, a KSP mod must include a URL link to a site where the exact same package file is hosted outside of Steam Workshop and is publicly accessable." Then it could be automatically enforced even, by having the mod package upload process automatically try to fetch the package from that URL and checksum it versus the mod being placed into Workshop to ensure they match. To check against cheating by a mod writer putting up the package on a website just long enough to pass the test and then removing it, it could be part of the regular daily update checks Workshop might perform - keep rechecking that URL and make sure the package is still there and is still checksum-equal to the one on Steam.

Such a rule would enforce that if a mod writer wants to use Steam Workshop, they aren't able to try to *exclusively* use Steam Workshop as the only place their mod is available from, which as I understand it was SQUAD's main objection to the idea.

[WhiteWeasel]

I made a suggestion about this, and someone directed me here, so here is my OP of that idea: EDIT: Maybe steam workshop would not be the best platform, but an in-game system with this functionality so all clients could benefit from it would be fantastic.

Wow, space engineers knocked it out of the park for mod support. I should provide an argument, but the video speaks for itself. No more ram issues as this system only loads the mod if it is enabled in that specific save. Might mean you have to spend longer waiting if you hop in between saves a lot as it would have to reload some mods, but frankly it would be worth it. Also no more giant parts list for those who have many mods installed. Mods would auto update like any patch on steam, .craft files on the workshop, auto downloading the needed mods when firing up a published save file, if a mod does not work, the game gives the option to load anyways, but delete the offending parts, keeping ships and worlds loadable.... Using mods in SE is so easy now, you would be hard-pressed to find a stock purist. I'm not sure how hard this would be from a coding standpoint, but unless there is a serious issue that makes it too difficult to add, I think it would be a great idea.

Watch to (3:00)

Mod popularity would explode if this were added!

Edited October 12, 2014 by WhiteWeasel

[Lumaan]

I love Steam, to have all my games under the same hood but I will never use Workshop, rater use Curse to get my mods + I like to have control of when I update my mods, see what change have been made to a mod ect. I have used curse for 10 years now for games like WoW, TSW ect, and never had any problems.

But I have to say that Nexus is a better place to use (Main site for my Skyrim/Fallout/X-Com ect mods I use)

[Gibgezr]

I personally would far prefer Steam Workshop support for mods. I have 310 or so games in my Steam Library at the moment, and prefer to use one mod manager. Workshop is very good, easy to browse and use. I don't want different mod managers for every game, thank you.

I find Steam so convenient that I refuse to buy PC games that are not on Steam; I simply go buy a console version of those games if I really must have them. I want ONE library of games on PC, and Steam is by far the best librarian program out there.

It would be quite interesting to know the numbers of Steam vs. Non-Steam owners of KSP.

[Las-pen]

Instead of Steam Workshop I would like to see Kerbal Nexus getting more lift under its wings

http://www.nexusmods.com/kerbalspaceprogram/?

[WhiteWeasel]

Bumping this, I hope at some point we get a modding system like space engineers' only difference is, an in game browser for mods instead steam workshop so everyone can use it.