New Mk3 parts- A disappointment?

[ZooNamedGames]

I have just used the new mk3 parts and have found them cool but have many many many issues with the new parts...

One of which is the fact they broke compatibility with older saves... I say the older saves should load up the old mk3 parts with the new one... Saves the craft and takes 5 extra seconds... Same with the mk2 parts and the new wings... since it sucks losing so many crafts due to a part overhaul.

Next- the new mk3 parts are WAY to big for KSP's stock parts, but that's explainable considering the fact the Mk3 parts are just the B9's HL line of parts- retextured. Only the cockpit is anything I'd call "original". I don't know who runs the B9 mod right now, but he should feel VERY ripped off. If it IS the guy who runs SP+ (since he was the guy who made the mk3 parts) then he should've focused on the IVA after making the cockpit since he had the parts made and he didn't have to do anything...

But I don't blame Squad for this- I blame the third party member they choose to assist them in their designs...

So if anyone agrees with me here- let me know since I'm real disappointed at what happened this update! But again- everything Squad DID do like the new buildings, new selection panels, editor options etc. All of that I like... this is purely about the mk3 parts.

[jake9039]

I know! and some m.k.3 premade ships would be nice to. all they did in 0.25 was switch the wing parts around for the premade ships, why can't they do that for our custom, hardworking ships!

[ZooNamedGames]

I know! and some m.k.3 premade ships would be nice to. all they did in 0.25 was switch the wing parts around for the premade ships, why can't they do that for our custom, hardworking ships!

Exactly! If Squad's gonna let there be any outsourcing let it be for the gruntwork like that so Squad can focus on something else... like adding a Barn!

[CaptRobau]

I have just used the new mk3 parts and have found them cool but have many many many issues with the new parts...

One of which is the fact they broke compatibility with older saves... I say the older saves should load up the old mk3 parts with the new one... Saves the craft and takes 5 extra seconds... Same with the mk2 parts and the new wings... since it sucks losing so many crafts due to a part overhaul.

Next- the new mk3 parts are WAY to big for KSP's stock parts, but that's explainable considering the fact the Mk3 parts are just the B9's HL line of parts- retextured. Only the cockpit is anything I'd call "original". I don't know who runs the B9 mod right now, but he should feel VERY ripped off. If it IS the guy who runs SP+ (since he was the guy who made the mk3 parts) then he should've focused on the IVA after making the cockpit since he had the parts made and he didn't have to do anything...

But I don't blame Squad for this- I blame the third party member they choose to assist them in their designs...

So if anyone agrees with me here- let me know since I'm real disappointed at what happened this update! But again- everything Squad DID do like the new buildings, new selection panels, editor options etc. All of that I like... this is purely about the mk3 parts.

The new Mk3, Mk2 and wing parts are so different from the old ones (which were badly designed) that any craft that you would load up in the VAB/SPH would be so misaligned that you might as well start it from scratch.

The size of the Mk3 is dictated by its intended use: put 2.5m cargo into space a la the Space Shuttle. As such it can't be any smaller. If it'd be smaller, it wouldn't be able to carry 2.5m parts and would thus be useless since the Mk2 can already carry 1.25m cargos. The HL-like shape is simply a result of that being the shape that makes it look like the Space Shuttle and be easy to put wings on it. Its an efficient shape for the intended purpose and that's far more important than originality.

[kujuman]

This thread is a disappointment. I came here expecting criticism of mass, cost, some bug in the collider, or something

[ZooNamedGames]

The new Mk3, Mk2 and wing parts are so different from the old ones (which were badly designed) that any craft that you would load up in the VAB/SPH would be so misaligned that you might as well start it from scratch.

The size of the Mk3 is dictated by its intended use: put 2.5m cargo into space a la the Space Shuttle. As such it can't be any smaller. If it'd be smaller, it wouldn't be able to carry 2.5m parts and would thus be useless since the Mk2 can already carry 1.25m cargos. The HL-like shape is simply a result of that being the shape that makes it look like the Space Shuttle and be easy to put wings on it. Its an efficient shape for the intended purpose and that's far more important than originality.

Fine fine- but at least make SOME attempt to make sure the MODEL design isn't a literal retext of it -.- as I have put the two parts side by side and have it identical. I want to see some B9 parts considering it IS from that pack regardless... So the maker still should have made new wings...

As for the mk2/3 parts I kinda agree with- but only to a certain degree... some of us would rather have a tangled mess and untangle it rather than have to make the rope entirely again considering some of us spent hours making this VERY finely tuned craft.

[ZooNamedGames]

This thread is a disappointment. I came here expecting criticism of mass, cost, some bug in the collider, or something

Oh there is a collision bug with the new Mk3 Extended Cargo bay... That's something I DIDNT mention was the fact on a 100% stock save I was FRAMES away from encountering a kraken while trying to launch a space shuttle.

[rodion]

i don't think the Mk 3 parts are unreasonably disappointing, and i consider it a boon that they're compatible with B9 HL because it helps to enforce a standard, and if you can get everyone to agree on a standard it makes mod development much easier. by comparison the B9 Mk. 2 and stock Mk. 2 aren't compatible, and that's annoying to me. overall i'm happy to see new and, in my opinion, superior parts, since C7's parts, some of great and some of poor quality, were integrated into stock somewhere around 0.14 and for so many versions, since even before i started playing KSP, the choice was to either suck it down and use the bizarre half-baked assortment of spaceplane parts, or try to mod your game until it's tolerable. on the other hand i am annoyed at the lack of a Mk. 3 IVA - at this point the lack of squad IVAs has pretty much become a community joke, except that it's a joke that definitely doesn't get funnier in the retelling. i'll accept without reservation that IVAs are complex and time-consuming to model and make functional, but at the same time there are enough examples of modders working for zero material remuneration making very high quality IVAs, many times as patches for Squad parts, and they don't seem to be having too much problem doing that in their free time, let alone punching the clock on a 40-hour week at Squad. i still think Squad are doing a great deal of good work for a small team, but KSP sometimes feels like starting a 500 piece puzzle and then realizing at the very end that you have 497 pieces.

[Nertea]

This just in - space shuttle parts designed to look like the space shuttle.... look like the space shuttle.

No, seriously. It's great work, and besides the fact that it's certainly *not* a retexture, doing the texture work for those parts is indubitably more time consuming than the modeling. Nobody "had the parts already done". :|.

I don't mind breaking craft either. so there.

[SparkyFox]

I agree too, ive had to bring the old mk3 parts just to use my old shuttle and theres actually another problem on the new mk3 parts with it falling apart and crashing the game

[ZooNamedGames]

i don't think the Mk 3 parts are unreasonably disappointing, and i consider it a boon that they're compatible with B9 HL because it helps to enforce a standard, and if you can get everyone to agree on a standard it makes mod development much easier. by comparison the B9 Mk. 2 and stock Mk. 2 aren't compatible, and that's annoying to me. overall i'm happy to see new and, in my opinion, superior parts, since C7's parts, some of great and some of poor quality, were integrated into stock somewhere around 0.14 and for so many versions, since even before i started playing KSP, the choice was to either suck it down and use the bizarre half-baked assortment of spaceplane parts, or try to mod your game until it's tolerable. on the other hand i am annoyed at the lack of a Mk. 3 IVA - at this point the lack of squad IVAs has pretty much become a community joke, except that it's a joke that definitely doesn't get funnier in the retelling. i'll accept without reservation that IVAs are complex and time-consuming to model and make functional, but at the same time there are enough examples of modders working for zero material remuneration making very high quality IVAs, many times as patches for Squad parts, and they don't seem to be having too much problem doing that in their free time, let alone punching the clock on a 40-hour week at Squad. i still think Squad are doing a great deal of good work for a small team, but KSP sometimes feels like starting a 500 piece puzzle and then realizing at the very end that you have 497 pieces.

I understand what your saying completely- but if we're gonna make HL a standard then once he was done making the mk3 cockpit and retext-ing the HL parts and making a few more (most exist for B9 already)- Then he has NO excuse for an IVA NONE.

Also- you never mentioned about how the new B9 parts work with Squad's tiny wings in comparison to the beastly new mk3s.

[kujuman]

I'd be surprised if the percent of players actively using the old Mk3 parts in a save was over 5%. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

If you're having issues with the new parts, be sure to post your findings in the proper forum with proper documentation, otherwise Squad won't know that they need to fix something

[ZooNamedGames]

This just in - space shuttle parts designed to look like the space shuttle.... look like the space shuttle.

No, seriously. It's great work, and besides the fact that it's certainly *not* a retexture, doing the texture work for those parts is indubitably more time consuming than the modeling. Nobody "had the parts already done". :|.

I don't mind breaking craft either. so there.

Cool- I know its supposed to be like the Shuttle- but guess what- so was the ORIGINAL mk3 parts... because if the old cockpit wasn't trying to be one then Idk what it was trying to do... the only issue with the old ones were the awkward shape and lack of LOX mixes (and cargo bays.... but they took way longer to be added anyway).

[ZooNamedGames]

I'd be surprised if the percent of players actively using the old Mk3 parts in a save was over 5%. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

If you're having issues with the new parts, be sure to post your findings in the proper forum with proper documentation, otherwise Squad won't know that they need to fix something

My issue is the size and minor glitching but Im more wanting this to go to the guy who made the new mk3 parts... Squad is doing fine with their parts I know C7's was a little awkward when he made them originally but we made do for almost 10 versions... So I call that a decent job by Squad if we lived with it for that long.

[Nertea]

What do you want him to see? That you think he stole B9's models (heh) and whipped up some new textures in 5 minutes? (also heh).

Your "made do" argument can also be applied to 95% of anything anyone wants in the game.

I'm genuinely confused about what you want here.

[SparkyFox]

What do you want him to see? That you think he stole B9's models (heh) and whipped up some new textures in 5 minutes? (also heh).

Your "made do" argument can also be applied to 95% of anything anyone wants in the game.

I'm genuinely confused about what you want here.

duuuude google image the b9 hl cockpit, its pretty much the same and also so is the back part, the creamy brown door on the back of the cockpit is the same texture type as b9

[ZooNamedGames]

What do you want him to see? That you think he stole B9's models (heh) and whipped up some new textures in 5 minutes? (also heh).

Your "made do" argument can also be applied to 95% of anything anyone wants in the game.

I'm genuinely confused about what you want here.

My only wants are this- A for SOME credit to go to the B9 part maker since theres been "theft" here since IF the guy made this 100% ON HIS OWN... then I am wondering why the two parts are identical... don't say they are not... I've placed them... BACK to BACK they are the same part.

And my other want is for bigger wings... B9's HL Parts ... KSP's normal stock parts...

[StarVision]

My only wants are this- A for SOME credit to go to the B9 part maker since theres been "theft" here since IF the guy made this 100% ON HIS OWN... then I am wondering why the two parts are identical... don't say they are not... I've placed them... BACK to BACK they are the same part.

And my other want is for bigger wings... B9's HL Parts ... KSP's normal stock parts...

You're basically saying that if I make a cylindrical fuel tank, I should credit Squad for inventing the shape. That's an oversimplified example, but the point still stands, and who knows, maybe Porkjet purposefully made them the same shape so they would be compatible? I don't have B9 installed, so I don't actually know if they match up perfectly like you say, but I wouldn't be complaining. Also to repeat what Nertea said, Texturing is easily the hardest and most important thing when it comes to parts, creating the basic shape for a fuselage takes under a minute if you put some thought into it.

[ZooNamedGames]

You're basically saying that if I make a cylindrical fuel tank, I should credit Squad for inventing the shape. That's an oversimplified example, but the point still stands, and who knows, maybe Porkjet purposefully made them the same shape so they would be compatible? I don't have B9 installed, so I don't actually know if they match up perfectly like you say, but I wouldn't be complaining. Also to repeat what Nertea said, Texturing is easily the hardest and most important thing when it comes to parts, creating the basic shape for a fuselage takes under a minute if you put some thought into it.

Well fine he spent time on retexting... but it did happen... *sigh* must I get a SCREENSHOT for you guys to believe this?

Also- I credit Squad for making what they have made. If YOU were the one who made the new mk3 parts then I'd be telling YOU my issues. Squad didn't make these new parts and Squad is doing just fine- I have 0 issues with THEIR parts... its the SP+ guy.

[Giggleplex777]

I understand what your saying completely- but if we're gonna make HL a standard then once he was done making the mk3 cockpit and retext-ing the HL parts and making a few more (most exist for B9 already)- Then he has NO excuse for an IVA NONE.

Also- you never mentioned about how the new B9 parts work with Squad's tiny wings in comparison to the beastly new mk3s.

I'm not a modeler, but I've heard that making IVAs is very time consuming. It's not as easy as it looks!

[StarVision]

Well fine he spent time on retexting... but it did happen... *sigh* must I get a SCREENSHOT for you guys to believe this?

.

I have confirmed they are the exact shape, but that doesn't mean much. Have you considered that Porkjet was trying to be helpful by making his parts compatible with a widely used mod?

Squad is doing just fine- I have 0 issues with THEIR parts...

That's because they're not making any. Also you said you had problems with the MK3 not having an IVA, but look at all the parts Squad has made that still don't have an inside.

[ZooNamedGames]

I'm not a modeler, but I've heard that making IVAs is very time consuming. It's not as easy as it looks!

I understand that of IVAs- but if he spent 1/2 days focusing on modeling and the rest of the time on IVAs then theres no excuse -.- even if he did spend 3 days on every part... he still had time.

[StarVision]

I understand that of IVAs- but if he spent 1/2 days focusing on modeling and the rest of the time on IVAs then theres no excuse -.- even if he did spend 3 days on every part... he still had time.

You're forgetting that most people have a life.

[ZooNamedGames]

I have confirmed they are the exact shape, but that doesn't mean much. Have you considered that Porkjet was trying to be helpful by making his parts compatible with a widely used mod?

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/27031094/Pictures/KSP/MK3-HL.png

That's because they're not making any. Also you said you had problems with the MK3 not having an IVA, but look at all the parts Squad has made that still don't have an inside.

True- but at least there WAS something... PorkJet just COMPLETELY skipped the issue. At least Squad made a WALL to look at... He made a gray ROOM.

I'm ok with him on compatibility but at LEAST GIVE SOME CREDIT... and again as to prior mention- that's still not an excuse for IVAs!

Also- Squad made a lot of parts and I'm not referring to this update either... PorkJet also lazied out of making IVAs by taking his cockpit that had a bunch of placeholder textures and for the update- used the same IVA as the other craft- and the description gives it NO honor.

[ZooNamedGames]

You're forgetting that most people have a life.

Then there is 1 more reason for Squad NOT to outsource. If he's too busy to make a QUALITY product that people are gonna PAY for- then he should NOT be allowed to assist.

Its like making me one of the people who makes Ice Cream for an Ice Cream shop but I simply take someone elses Ice Cream and slightly changing it and after that- leaving the cone a piece of paper because I had too much to do in life...

If you were the boss- you'd FIRE me because I was lazy and incompetent. But because he DOESNT work for Squad the only thing they CAN do is not to let him assist.