TheAlmightyOS

HEY! It's me again! I got another idea! I really want to fix the issues I see with the mod community (namely distribution and updating) and to that end I have been looking for a way to standardize mod submissions. So, first I got to thinking about having the mod authors put a file in with their submissions that would include all the vital information. But one quick look around here was enough to prove that idea would not fly. Secondly I tried to figure out where mod authors would rather host their mod and then enforce a type of standardization that way. But the general answer was wherever they [darn] well please so that got nowhere. But this time I think I got it, something that the mod authors would want and a way to standardize submissions! What I envision is a program, a tool. This is how I propose the tool would work for an author Author finishes work on an update for a mod. They open this tool, select the mod from the list of projects, type in the information to add to the changelog/forum/github/curse/kerbalstuff. Press submit and DONE. The tool takes the files, zips them up with a *.info file and sends them to wherever the author wants their mods hosted. It would update forum posts, upload files to the host(s) of the author's choosing. What I am suggesting is a SINGLE point of submission while maintaining multiple locations for coverage. And it CAN be done. Automating tasks on websites can be easily done and it is even easier if the website in question has API calls like forums and github. But here is the biggest question about it. If we build it, will you USE it?

ah, so your saying that your mind is not made up on the idea of administrator assigned categories and how such a system would work. It is more of an idea to flesh out. I understand your reasoning behind it. It reduces the abuse that could happen. However it could also increase the amount of work the administrators would have to perform. Thoughts?

Keks, I am reading though what you want to do and, I am sorry, I am just not understanding what you are attempting to do. If I am reading your posts correctly, then in order for what you want to work each mod will need to be packaged with a meta.yaml file that may or may not be created by the modder. if it is not created by the modder it would be created by the user. Are you saying, that a group of individuals are going to create and maintain these meta.yaml files? A program? The IDEA of the file is fine but WHERE in the process is it being created?

first, a disclaimer. I am not telling you how to run your project. And it is YOUR project. So when I say anything in this entire thread it is meant to be helpful to your process and not to (negatively) criticize your work. Still, I feel the need to say all that because what I say gets taken the wrong way all the time. So, yeah. There it is. Now: Words and phrases like "I Imagine" and "Should Be" and "I suppose" are not appropriate answers when planning a project. The project leader (you) should have only three answers to questions. "Yes", "No" and "Let's talk it though cause my mind is not made up". Letting a feature remain ambiguous may cause headaches down the road during implementation.

Now this poses an interesting question: is there an "approval" process for the mods in which the admins add the category, or are the mods "unassigned" until a admin sets the category?

Understandable. I concerned about balance and exposure of mods, that is all. Now, question: who would be choosing the category?

I think that looks almost perfect. My concern: Part Packs is going to get overused. Maybe split Part Packs into Rocket Part Pack / Aeroplane Part Pack / Misc Part Pack? My idea is rough, needs some refinement

You are absolutely right. Modders will only change if A) They have to (program requirements change) or They [darn] well please I did not have a chance to read though all the suggestions, but has anyone thought of an auto-publishing tool? The modder would open the tool, type in the changes made this version (auto-appends the readme), drag the files into their appropriate sections, update other tidbits of information, press "SEND" and BOOM: Forum updated. Curse updated. Kerbal Stuff updated. Add your location here - Updated. The program zips up the data in a specific, standard format and sends it out. All we would need are the API's which should be easy enough. There are programs that automate tasks on forums other websites all the time. I know I am making it sound easier than it is but I know this can be done.

Please see my poll posted above. ~50% picked KS over all other options even though we know 50% of the mods are NOT hosted on KS. Not even 1% is hosted right now by my guestimate. From that data and from user comments I have come to the conclusion that a large portion of this community, while not actively using KS, is behind the IDEA of a open source self hosted repo and will join when the bugs are hammered out. Now, that is quite a bit of speculation in that post. I don't have any real numbers to go on and that isn't usually like me to do. However, this community.... resists..... being metered for a lack of words.

I originally voted for NexusMods as I use them to mod all of my other games and know they have a very good system in place. But it seems the Kerbals of Kerbin have spoken and they want to build their own so I am am behind KS 100% now

Ah, yes that will help stem such abuses. However, some basic guidelines for such issues should be in place. Using the example of the KWRocketry again I do not believe it was an attempt to abuse the system but rather place the mod in the categories it fit. And it legitimately fit into several. What kind of guidelines would the mods use to determine where a part would go and, if using multiple categories, are you concerned about the more popular mods "stealing the spotlight" from others in those categories?

I respectfully disagree. While I can see the difficulty of choosing a category for a mod that could potentially fit in separate categories, it is my opinion that the mod author will need to choose one or the other. Here is my reasoning: Many mods are "Packs", or large groups of parts with each part possibly fitting into a different category. KWRocketry, for instance, is grouped into four categories in Curse (Parts Pack, Sub-Assembly, Structural & Aerodynamic and Command & Control). Just from having that particular mod I know it could also be added to Propulsion too. So, what is going to happen when the user starts browsing the different categories? They are going to see the same mods at the top. To increase the exposure of the other mods in those categories we need to limit mods to a single category. However, categories still need to be thought out carefully. And yes, Tags are a terrible idea.

Ah. Of course. This is the email I sent to SirCmpwn: Now, after I sent that email he pointed me to this thread and sent links to his redesign, which addresses many of the issues I had with the original. But I just can't sit on my hands while he does all the work. He is building us a mod repo, so let's drum it up! Advertise! Think up some perks for modders to switch to KS!

Ok, so I found the forum page. Like I said in my email, I want to actively help out on this project. What do you need? What can I do?

Ok, well I think that blew up on the launchpad.... What I am TRYING to get at is, as a user, it is nearly impossible to keep track of your favorite mods. For me personally, without this thread I would spend hours (and have) finding updated mods so that I can get into the game and play. Hell, I have spent more time searching for, downloading and installing mods then playing the actual game this week! I don't CARE where it is downloaded from. What I meant by the word HOSTED in the title is not where the file is located, but where the INFORMATION ABOUT THE MOD is located. Where is that mods, and more specifically, mod author's, "Home"? Unfortunately the answer for nearly everyone is "The Forum" which I purposely did not put as a choice as a forum is not designed to showcase anything and is hell to search though. I want to help fix this issue in some way but all I seem to be doing is ruffling feathers of the people who apparently love this chaos. But I won't give up. I have sent a message over to SirCmpwn of Kerbal Stuff offering my assistance on that site and I am drafting a proposal for a Mod Library (sort of like the thread I posted only on a larger scale) to give to Majiir. You guys might not care about the current state of things, but I know they could be better and I am going to do what I can to help PS: For the record, Curse sucks

Thank you. I am starting to fall into the "don't care" category myself. They don't get it's not the downloading that is the issue, it's the searching and updating and browsing. A forum is a poor place to showcase mods IMHO but it is up to them.

My bad. I was going off Majiir's post http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/79044-Mod-Hosting-Guide and was not aware at the time that Kerbal Stuff was the result of his call for a repository. I changed the title to reflect what I was attempting for in the first place: Asking Modders and users alike about using a single source to simplify modding process. This was not an attempt to TELL the modders to do anything. It ain't like that. You guys do an awesome job. It would just be cool to simplify things for modders and users so more time is spent enjoying these great mods and awesome game. Don't hate the dreamer guys

Ok, so after trying (for days) to set up an easy way to update my mods, I have to say I have found a bit of a flaw in this modding community. Basically, IT'S ALL OVER THE PLACE! There are mods scattered across the net and apart from nismobg's valiant effort, there is NO way to keep your mods up to date. Now I know the closing of the SpacePort hurt, but we got alts. It is just a matter of picking one and sticking with it. But which one? We got GitHub, Kerbal Stuff, CurseForge, NexusMods, moddb, self hosting and project Majiir. What should we use? That is the question I now pose to you all here. As modders (and those that like mods) where would you like to go to upload/download/search for mods?

What do you propose as the carrot? Not being argumentative, just curious about your POV. I personally see no benefit that could sway the current modding community into standardization.

Ok. That is a thought. But who is going to maintain the json files? You said yourself we can't force the modders to use any standards (and I agree) so who is left holding the bag?

I agree with the concept. I do not believe it will catch on. At least, not without a significant show of force by Squad. At my work I deal with developers. Great people till you start telling them what to do. They get it in their head that they know EXACTLY what the end user wants or the best way label their code. Out of 13 Devs, they each have the RIGHT way to do things and everyone else is wrong. Then when something goes wrong it's the users fault, every time. And Modders are WORSE. Once again. GREAT people. Some of them downright awesome. Start telling them they must do something that is not required by the program and they resist There IS a solution to this: FORCE STANDARDIZATION AT THE PROGRAM LEVEL. They will moan and cry and throw their temper-tantrums. But in the end, almost all mods will conform to minimum set of standards and most of the headaches will go away. IMHO, I do not feel like a Repo is a way to go about it. Don't get me wrong, I am a 'nix guy myself and think repo's are an awesome way to keep your system (or program) up to date. And if you could GET the modders to use it and someone could code some sort of mod organizer/updater then it would be perfect for KSP. BUT: You got to get the moders to use it Right now we got ~500 mods in the forums (just a quick and dirty query to get that number. don't know how many of them are active), another ~200 on Curse, 37 @ github KSP Mod Repository, and 4 have found their way to the Nexus (wtf?). There is another site out there too I just can't find it. Now, a lot of these numbers are replications such as a mod author posting to the forum, github and curse, still you can see for yourself the massive disconnect. We got modders posting everywhere It's not WHERE that we need to change. It's the HOW. You make your repo, put in the requirements for a successful submission and then....what? the devs that don't like your way of doing things will just use another way to submit their mod. What is needed is end point changes in how mods are installed and maintained in KSP and that has to happen at Squad's level. It does not have to be much, a file required in each folder under GAMEDATA that has the mod information in the correct format would suffice. But, unfortunately, all this is talk and not even productive talk. Nearly everyone looks at the current situation and knows it's no where near ideal but until we can get someone from Squad to sit in on this convo and actually hammer out something that would work for 84.7% of the community I foresee this situation getting worse. However, something DOES need to be done

going to have to look into this jump drive. Thanks for the info

ah, great! people are talking about programming/scripting in KSP! Exactly what I was going to ask about! My questions (forgive if they have been answered already): 1: Is there a Wiki / Documentation for making scripts in KSP? 2: Can you place a script in a part.cfg file to be activated when the part is? (ex, run script when engine activates) Thanks!!

So first test of the FTL engine (basically a heavily modified ion engine) ended in catastrophic failure. I roughly estimated the thrust it would take my test rocket to the speed of light and set that value in the FTL engine part. I placed an FTL engine pointing forward and one backward (to go and stop). I set up two action groups, one to activate the main FTL and one to turn off the main FTL and activate the "Stopping" FTL. The moment I activate the FTL my test ship became space dust RIP Bob. Maybe next time I will use an unmanned test.

well yeah. Definitely don't want it to be EASY to plot an FTL jump. If you are going to go several lightyears in the blink of an eye I think the difficulty should be much higher then planning an orbit. And, for instance, if you muck up and jump into a planets atmosphere, well lets just hope you built your ship capable of landing and have enough fuel to do so lol. Been looking around. Still can't figure out how to zero-V the craft. Script maybe? Can I put a script within a part? Is that how they do it with MechJeb? There is a thought, look at how MechJeb does all that cool stuff and see what I can learn.