PB666

That is the favored argument thiugh now-days-days i think it will come with exception 'except at quantum scales' so subatomic quanta maybe able to go back in time.

Does anyone else here get the feeling people are arguing in this thread just to be arguing. If i could place the pro "time" travel folks in front of this thread and the anti time travel folks in back of the thread could that blabber energy take the thread back before it was born and have a forum server power failure so it would not ever exist?

The codec for the cell phone was created during WWII. BTW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_phone Noting that the defense department commisioned contractors to build a coding system that would allow encryption via RF rotation protocol. The war ended before it was required however. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_mobile_phones The only real difference of the motorola is that instead of using a cars alternator and the car battery to charge a mobile phone, the 1973/4 version had a battery in the device and a 120volt charger somewhere else. The first use in a sci-fi series Cell phone with a GPS .. . . .And the tractor in the cartoon is pointing in the wrong direction, tractors pull from the big wheels, many tractors have the hitch right on the rear axle, that's what give the pull the traction. Star Trek did bring forth ideas that have been copied, for example the tricorder and the medical bed, but this are still not widely implimented. Technically speaking none of these technologies are ground breaking physics. Things like a quantum computer, nope, they did not inspire. If the alcubierre drives works as it might for subluminal travel, then it might get credit for inspiring this.

The critcal level is the length of the superconduction electromagnets that have to be used to arrive at the forces they desire. It should provide some badly needed stimilus to the chinese economy, so its not altogether a waste no matter what happens. more of these high tech projects would benefit their economy greatly, but the biggest bang for the buck would be replacing coal and getting future health care cost down.

Traveling into the past and creating a grandfather paradox is absurb in its own right. FTL travel is not absurb until you create a speed limit for light and make it universal from all local inertial reference frames. This absurbity makes FTL travel absurb but it also facilitates the paradox. There in lies the problem. Our observations are basically newtonian, we have to rely on machines to tell us that light has a certain speed and behaves in a certain non-newtonian manner. Visually that is not apparent until you compare input energies and velocity at c scalar velocities. That is were the problem lies.

Because its not a 'beam' per say, and because its not a tractor, its an im goimg to manipulate the air around something and make it move; which btw the working 1939 vintage vacuum cleaner in my attic can do, this is just a hyper-geekification of pre star trek technology.

Because like other aspects of the drive its not clear that the metric can be turned off, safely. As i stated in the same response the fields that humans would be exposed to while assembling, operating and ceasing may be beyond the survival capacity. Theoretically if you reduced the metric to subluminal speed, broadened the metric as you reduced the feild sthrength that eventually the metric would be so far away that humans might survive, but there is no guarantee that this could be done. Those grains of sand that would have struct the craft end up being exotic matter at the field minimum. As soon as these are not in an event horizon it would spew radiation in all directions.

Wrong, that kills the inhabitants. The warp bubble traps matter in front of the vessel just like a black hole, when the warp space needs to relax and move away from the vessel other wise when the feild collapse that material basically blows up right on the ship releasing large amounts of radiation. We are not really getting the issue here, humans are peddly little biologicals that do not stand up well to the types of forces that pervade traveling between the stars, we are planetbund. The forces we are talking about to create the field are beyond our survival scope, and maybe beyond the reach of our technology, if not that which is available in our accessible universe. At every point of behavior of the system the forces humans would confront would be beyond the scope of any human experience, outside of an atomic bomb blast. In answer to the kid, to state the issue the paradox of time travel is only a paradox if FTL is possible. SoL limit is not based on light, light is a sensor. The limit is a property of the way space evolves. Massless things do not cling to the inertial fabric of space and are free to move as fast as space allows. So that the big problem is not time reversal, but how space allows this phenomena, if my notion here is correct any attempt to create FTL will result in a disruption of space to a degree that the device itself is disrupted. It would be like making a nitrobenzene compund that was so explosive that any heat applied to it would make it explode, except it requires heat to make the compound, so as it is realizing its form it decays. The concept of the drive is to creat a blackhole like warping of space confined to E-32 meters, space may not tolerate this, in which case it would decay before the metric forms, then there is no paradox.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/oct/29/china-supercollider-higgs-boson-science-leader

https://www.inverse.com/article/7403-scientists-may-have-just-discovered-a-parallel-universe-leaking-into-ours " While the discovery of a new universe would be Earth-shattering, it’s important to approach the new study with caution. Scientists have had their hopes continuously stoked by new data suggesting evidence of a multiverse, only to be burned time and time again by rational explanations. "

This raises a whole bunch of new questions, according to relativity model, the existence of a point (or lets say an quantum object at that point, lets say a neutron) progresses through space time whose motion could be set forth. If i then took that neutron away at the speed of light, accelerated it into a different frame, then I created an electron and a proton and brought it back at FTL, I could then create a deuterium atom with that proton and the neutron. How would the neutron know that the proton came from itself? Are you saying the proton produces a wave that the neutron suddenly recognizes. This sounds like the equivalent of the Sci-fi phase, the proton would have to be in another phase, its vibrations out of tune with the proton making them invisible to each other. For this to occur time would have to be discrete at the quantum scale, it would be like time-sharing of quantum time. We know the vibrations of the atoms E = hv, this is arguing that that this wave is carrying much smaller waveform, much like system clock on a computer. Even so if its a wave sometimes the harmonics will match and allow the interaction. So its not a full proof method. For example, the second that ship heading back in time tries to take an observation, everything would disappear, the universe would become black, or it would enter another timeline, maybe a timeline that has all the anti-matter left from the nucleogenesis.

Causality need not exist, an oxymoron, but the problem is that our universe in its origin may not be causal, and the fact we cannot detect quantum gravity may suggest that causality is not neccesary. For example if dark energy were to reverse and the universe began to close back in on itself causality may cease to exist in the final moments. Local space time in the universe can be moving away at many times c....somewhere i read something like 58c....maybe higher. If this is reverse direction and return when they got close to each other then the comoving reference frames would be moving faster than c. In this way time is a function of the inflation of the universe, relativistic gravity may be the fix. You are confusing what happens in our peaceful little backwater with all points. i think what hawkings and others are trying to say that if you have enough energy to travel back in time you also have energy comparable to other space time of the univers where this is possible, unfortunately, its too much energy for human, maybe matter, to exist. You could go back in time but it wouldn't matter because the local spacetime you are sitting would be complete and utter chaos characterized by exotic matter, inflation, etc. The outcome would be a honogenization of local space and future generations would not see specific outcomes but generalized outcomes, like CMBR. I think from a quantum perpective if you tried to tamper and persuade many anti-normal events, you would prolly loose all control of shaping those events, that is a refection of destructive chaos. Another way to look at this is that our time-line is like a pond and we are a fish in that pond, the pond has streams that flow in and out, and we can swim to those streams, but should we seek out to enter a birds nest or walk on the moon, we cannot expect our pond physics to work the way we expect.

I mean the warp drive. just to power the known warp, you have to confine gravitational mass-energy to E-32 meters, which requires an amount of energy that exceeds an amount of energy available in our local. Production an equal an opposite negative energy field that has anti-gravity qualities is current not possible at at level outside of quantum scales. you can propose any level of energy you like since all would not suffice. To make a true FTL device you need one to create the forward field, which then makes the gravitational energy requirement infinite. This goes by the fact to have one you need one, and it then needs one, and so on. Alternatively to travel any distance you would have tonhave a warp rail, which means you have to have been there first and second, you have to build the rail, the payload could not anticipate the activity of the field in either case. Wormholes exist only at the quantum level, you can send any matter you like, provided you send a ship with the entangled particles. The problem is that whatever you want to send has to be subdivided to the quantum scale and reconstituted. This is plausible but impractable.

FTL Energy cost are infinite, you dont have to go there. CTC is better defined as conjecture times conjecture. If you had more energy than is present in the known universe, if you could control it if you had negative energy if you then FTL ..........Thats the hard part accelerating backwards at 100g for 10 secs would suffice to move you back 10E-3 seconds provided you promptly returned FTL.

CTC = closed timelike curve. And object starts at a given point in space time, this proceeds outward as light cones reflecting luminal and subluminal travel but can never return to any starting point. Such FTL travel allow for objects to return to a given point on the curve. Speculative because it creates the grandfather paradox.

It has something to do with causality, lets say you observe what happens, then you travel faster than the speed of light to the point where there is an effect, you could prevent that effect from happening. So if we reduce this to the microscopic something that observes an event and can prevent that event from happening where the event parameters travel at C is effectively going back in time. We are our effects of the causal past. Our electrons and many of the atomic processes are moving at SoL, so if we could change their fate, we have in essence gone back in the past. If an asteroid collides with earth, you can't FTL out 100 years and then notify earth to change the course of some unknown asteroid. However if you were sitting on the surface of the asteroid, asleep, and suddenly woke as the asteroid plunged into earths atmosphere theoretically you could move all that matter to a safe distance from earth with an FTL drive effectively alter all the effects from realizing on earth including blocking the light and radiant energies that had already occurred. From the observers point of view on the ground the asteroid approached earth and then disappeared. However, also from other points of view any attempt to reverse all those effects would cause even more dramatic and destructive effects (so it creates a paradox). Just want to make a point. According to the grand synthesis of the standard model quantum gravity separated from the other forces first, noting that we have yet to observe this in nature, but if we consider the basis of that force to be bosons, then its particle is its own anti-particle, this means essentially if quantum gravity exists there is no anti-gravity or collective negative mass, and alcubierre cannot exist. In addition since boson are fields and propagate at SoL, then the warp field could never propagate faster, any attempt to reach that speed would effectively destroy space-time capable of transmitting the field. The metric consists of a number of very unlikely preconditions for the drive to be possible, and even if the drive were theoretically possible, it is more than likely practically impossible, from both points of view, creating a negative energy field of great intensity and impractically sharp definition behind the flat-spacetime sphere and propogating a gravity well equally sharply defined in front of the flat space-time. Not only does this require an immense amount of energy (and the opposite thereof) but it also requires an alcubierre transport to create the field in front of the causality limit of the ship, which means that you need another alcubierre drive to make any alcubierre drive work. Summing you have an unknown physics operating behind the craft and an ungovernable metric in front. This is the ultimate if and if and if and if argument where many of the ifs are all but false.

No, never did, but many folks think that just because of the tech concept work, they all should work.

I think the only real tractor beam is a modulated electromagnet. I never figured out on ST were the green light came from, since basically there is no gas or particulate for the light to scatter off of. By an large EM pushes, not pulls. Sci fi got the small things predicted well, the big stuff.........Fail.

yeah but in the mid 90s that was a choice, to hardwire 256 processors on a single process board (fast). the linking technology currently used IIRc is basically a very fast T1 connection between servers. Of the shelf now you can buy servers with 12 cores, and you just start linking them together via local area routers. We had 10gb/s routers at the time but in a private chat with our IT no way would an end user be allowed that kind of access, not without special approval (something about interinstitutional shared backbone capacity). Essentially if you had the equipment to rail god awful numbers of servers and could store it on 1000s of drive downloads at 1Gb/s or less, then you could at somepoint flip the switch and do 4 core @ 500mhz at how ever many servers you have, not much point in doing that. I should add that you could also unclock lock many intel cpus on the mobo, and provide you had megacooling you could probably boost the rate to 750 or 1 gigahertz. The problem was intel was slow and conservative about bringing new chips to market until AMD starting shoving forward chips that could run at any clockrate that would not burn them .

17 years is not sudden, and I had a 3.6 ghz processor back in 2003 and now 12 years later my brand new machine maxes out at 3.7 , no change of speed there. The only real change is in parallel processing and 64 bit IS and OS, and GPUs. I was suprised to learn the other day that my L1 cache is still a measley 256k, that is only twice the memory of my apple IIe c.1986. As per the other thread, i have projects sitting around for the last decade or so waiting for a processor to come forth affordably so that i can do then. I wouldn't be going through the effort to learn C and 64 bit intel assembly if that processor was out there. BTW, the in-silico analysis, if its not chained to actuals, you can keep it.

You carry your space time with you in the drive, when you return to the sun it will be slightly shifted because of its rotation in the galaxy, but from your spacetime perspective you will have to stop and apply energy to match its motion and regain orbit which will take time. You did not travel in spacetime to get to a centauri, had you stopped you would have had to apply large amounts of energy to insert orbit and that period of thrust application you would have adjusted your space-time to that of the system. I have to say, its one thing to imagine what it would be like to travel at SoL or close to it, imagining how this fictious entity behaves is silly. The energy requirements for the drive AFAIK or anyone knows do not exist, the energy requirements are fictitious. So predicting how things will behave, well, one behavior is that the energy system converts all the encapsulated energy into quantum pixie dust and uniformly transports it to everypoint in the universe. In that vien of thought it can go backwards, forward . . . .

http://www.sciencealert.com/this-plasma-engine-could-get-humans-to-mars-on-100-million-times-less-fuel Its basically a way of firing and channeling electrons so that they do not erode the materials, i creasing the overall life of the thruster.

The issue is not what ITER is doing or how fast it is doing it, thats a whole different set of questions. In the past few months we have seen no less than three sort of "we can do better, smaller, cheaper" reactor concept, which is all fine and dandy BUT given the fact its been 60 years and nobody yet has a working reactor. You cannot convince that this is not doable because they lack computer modeling capability. Computers have not suddenly got mega more powerful. The critical issue with Tritium is that trutium has in the US a reged dereg status. Its been largely dereged relative to other radionucleotides BUT the limits have been set low, so effectively its still regulated as a chemical env. contaminant. That is the problem is you are doing steam distillation, because steam is highly corrosive and difficult to contain.

We seen these types of devices before, including the laser devices. These are not anything like the fictitious tracter beams of sci-fi. Just like warp drives this stuff is bunk. Does this tractor beam work in a vacuum. Nope. All they are doing is applying energy to air molecules and those molecules are pushing the object where they want it to go. if i am at point x and i want object to move toward me, all i need to do is fire a missile at a point on the other side relayive to me and the objects move toward, but that is not a tractor beam. The idea of a tractor is something that creates some sort of force sustaing link, so that if i move the force attrcating that object to me increases, if it gets to close that force will decrease unless i change the dynamic that it closes the distance.