GoSlash27

Wait... what do you mean when you say "tier zero"? I see jet engines and retractable landing gear there... Best, -Slashy *edit* Derp! You mean facility level zero, but all the "caveman" tech unlocked. Nevermind.

Not at all. #1) SSTO spaceplanes can be built to go as far as you want. It's just a matter of reducing payload fraction for more fuel/ more efficient engines. #2) Although long distance SSTOs are feasible, I don't use them that way. I don't see the point of dragging all that unnecessary equipment to another planet. #3) the prime mission of the SSTO spaceplanes in my program isn't probe launches or tourist attractions, but rather transporting supplies and shuttling crews to/ from a station in LKO. They are super cheap, safe, and reliable delivery vans. Best, -Slashy

Results for Llanthas' SpacePlane: very dangerously wobbly on the runway. Made it, but almost hit a light. Good acceleration, handling not twitchy at all, but a bit vague. Failed to reach orbit Lots of oxidizer on board, but nothing that burns it. Also, no piping between the outboard tanks and NERVs mounted inboard. There was plenty of fuel to make orbit, but it was in the wrong place. By the time I had it transferred inboard, it was too late. Abort. Extremely tailheavy during abort. Got backwards, but was able to correct it by shifting fuel, applying the speedbrakes, and throttling up.Jeb was busy... Recovered at 3km, over 1/4 of the way around the planet East. Good heat tolerance. Was able to cruise it all the way back to KSC and land it without breaking anything. Thankfully, I had fuel leftover so I didn't have to deadstick it. Yaw stability is disturbingly weak, even with the active fins. Gotta manually rudder this plane around the pattern. Structure (and therefore landing gear tracking) was flimsy. Nose gear was airborne to 30 m/sec. Not because it was gliding, but because the fuselage was bending up. 68,201 at launch 66,264 value at recovery on the runway -2 points score This will make orbit easily with a little piping, but it really needs structural reinforcement. Best, -Slashy

all, This is Llanthas' spaceplane if you're wondering what it looks like. I'll take it for a spin. Best,- Slashy

Congratulations to WinkAllKerb'! On behalf of the rest of the clan, welcome to the cave! Space Cavemen!! Best, -Slashy

Okay, I've got the Neagle. I'm going to go conservative with it and just rotate out crew/ transfer fuel in LKO. Same as I did with the Sangwich. The challenge right now is just to orbit it without killing everyone. Wish me luck! -Slashy - - - Updated - - - Welp... short trip. I ran it off the end of the runway at full throttle. It immediately pitched up violently and entered an inverted flat spin. I was unable to recover and went into the water. Total loss and all hands lost. Perhaps a slower takeoff may help whoever tries it next... *Follow-up troubleshooting flights (not for points)* I was able to get it off the ground by reassigning roll to the canards, disabling the ailerons, setting fine controls, and taking off very carefully. It got worse when I added power. Every time, pitch excursions leading to an unrecoverable inverted flat spin. It's just plain too tail-heavy and too draggy in front. I was able to get it to orbit by unloading the farthest- aft tank and handling it very carefully until it built up speed. It seems to stabilize after that. Of course, that means you have to slog on the single nuc to orbit because the RAPIERS give out early, but it *is* doable. The ship got hot, but held. I had 25.48t and 1623 fuel at orbit. By my math (somebody doublecheck my figures), I had 3,009 m/sec DV on orbit. Best, -Slashy

Hmm. The Neagle appears to be quite a handful. I think I'll have to give it a go this evening! Best, -Slashy

*edit* Do yourself a favor and check out the "Caveman Challenge" thread. Watch how they do it. Getting started needn't be grindy. Best, -Slashy

SoulShaper, Apologies, I didn't check your math. I trust the others who have responded implicitly and I'm confident their answers are correct. There is no earthly (kerbinly?) reason why you should ever launch into an orbit with an 80° inclination error. Inclination errors are expensive to fix at orbital velocity. Much better to launch into the orbital plane to start with (as Pecan said). 60° inclination error costs your entire orbital velocity if you fix it in orbit, but if you launch that way, it's free. Best, -Slashy

I finally got all the kinks out of my stock shuttle replica; the Space Shuttle Kourageous. Ready for general release. Download here: http://wikisend.com/download/247446/Shuttle Kourageous.craft It flies really well (for a shuttle) throughout the entire mission. You can even launch it without ever using RCS if you're careful. Comes with docking adapter and "skylab" style payload, which really should be deployed before attempting deorbit/ landing. Plenty of DV for LKO ops and payload capacity. Staging: - SME Ignition - SRB Ignition - Launch clamp release - SRB Jettison - Tank Jettison/ OMS engage Action groups: 1) toggle doors/ lights/ radiators 2) toggle solar panels 104 parts and costs $115,000 on the pad. Procedures.... make up your own. That's the fun of shuttles Best, -Slashy

Scarecrow, I tried disabling the rocket gimbals, but it flies about the same either way. It is difficult to force it to depart from controlled flight, but possible if you really yank it the moment you kick in the rockets. There is no reason why this maneuver should be necessary, so my best advice is to let it pitch up on it's own. It will maintain forward flight to orbit so long as you don't force it to do something else. Best, -Slashy

Another pilot's log. Hopefully not the last one! Change in plans. Going to drop off the extra fuel at the orbital tank. A swing by the Minmus would be fun, but wouldn't be worth any points. 600 units of monoprop is way more than I can ever imagine needing. I usually only use 15 units for a ship of this size. Still, I'm happy to have it on this flight just in case... Jeb 1 day later... Docked with tanker. Offloading 220 units of fuel. Retroburn complete. Here's hoping I guessed right... -Slashy - - - Updated - - - Photo record and final pilot's log: http://s52.photobucket.com/user/GoSlash27/slideshow/Flight%20of%20the%20Sangwich Night landing deadstick. Who knew kerbals were religious?? Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the Kraken, I shall fear no rapid unscheduled disassembly... Maybe, maybe... ? Handling on reentry and heat dissipation are excellent! Yess! So long as I don't screw it up, we've made it! Stabilizers came off as expected, but successful mission! Nice spaceplane! Jebediah approves! Final tally: Value at launch $82,418 5 kerbals delivered to orbit 1t of fuel delivered to orbit Value at recovery $52,465. 12 points for delivery, -30 points for flight cost. Total points -18 points. This plane could easily get the multiplier for Minmus, but it's not an SSTO as it sits. Good handling and way more supplies than it needs in all phases. It really needs more t/w off the pad. Clearly not cost-efficient (we knew that going in), but very forgiving, even for someone who's never seen it. Best, -Slashy

Just some pilot's notes from my run up to this point. I'm still in the mission. Uhh...insufficient t/w on launch.It just fell on the pad like *kerplunk* Got moving a few seconds later and didn't fall over. Positive news... Halfway through fuel at roll maneuver Good handling through boost phase. The laggy launch made us late for rendezvous. Way late. Boosters out of fuel way early; about 1400 m/sec... Gonna dump them while still suborbital. As much as I love markers... This isn't technically an "SSTO", so the run might be invalid. Nevertheless, we will press on... A race against time... Made it! A little more limping to go, but I think we're out of the woods... Passengers complaining about the faulty air conditioning... Orbit achieved! Now to rendezvous with the station... I elected to take the scenic route... I can see my house from here... That was a little suicide burn- ey... Made it. The trip to Minmus is cancelled, though. Successful docking. Good placement of RCS thrusters. Transferred everyone but Jeb. Now what to do with this leftover fuel? Too little to go anywhere fun, but probably too much to bring home. Hmm... my back of the envelope sez I have 1,124 m/sec to play with. That's at least enough to swing by Minmus and say howdy. Poor decision?? Perhaps. But that's what Jeb's good at. More to follow... -Slashy

Jakalth, I just downloaded and installed the "Sangwich". We are in the process of administering last rites reviewing the launch procedures... Full documentation to follow Best, -Slashy

I hadn't attempted it and wouldn't be inclined to try. I have no problem with doing math or other cavemen doing math (in fact I encourage it) but the margin of error on that project is so razor thin that I'd consider a successful rendezvous to be as much luck as skill. And yeah, the wall is filling up fast. I don't know what I'm gonna do if it gets filled completely. Think of something else, I guess... Best, -Slashy

Scarecrow88, Thanks, I'll take a look at it this evening. As a quick fix, you might want to try disabling gimbaling on the rockets. Best, -Slashy

^ What mhoram said. The changes in velocity occur at the points of the burns. I can't explain it any better in text than he has with a picture, but I'm happy to help if you need more clarification. As an aside, you don't have to worry about me taking personal offense at your questioning things. I understand that you're trying to grasp a weird concept and besides... I could easily be mistaken in any post. Best, -Slashy

babaton, you really have no choice but to have the cargo bay in the middle of the CoG. Otherwise the spaceplane will be unflyable when either loaded or unloaded. fuel and oxidizer can be split fore and aft as well as laterally. And of course using wet wings keeps the jet fuel exactly at the center of lift. Best, -Slashy

Scarecrow88, Hm! That's interesting... I had intentionally designed this plane to be easy to manage, so it should be very difficult to flip. Do you know what speed and pitch angle you were at when it happened? I'd like to try to reproduce it. Best, -Slashy

Heresy! Shun the non-believer! Light SSTOs are the best thing going for putting crews into orbit to meet up with their interplanetary vessels. I've found that it's actually *heavy* SSTOs that are impractical these days. Cool, but impractical... Of course, I could be wrong... Best, -Slashy

Jakalth, Could you post this craft using wikisend instead of mediafire? I'm keen to try my hand at it, but my computer no likey mediafire. Thanks, -Slashy

SoulShaper, I can help you with this. For an orbit of 90x100 km, your numbers are accurate. 2,238 m/sec at apoapsis and 2,270 at periapsis. Transferring from the periapsis of the original to the apoapsis of the new orbit (oberth effect) also matches your numbers. I get 2507 and 1575. Now... going from your transfer orbit to resetting your periapsis, your velocity at apoapsis will be 1791 m/sec. So how you figure DV is by *literally* figuring the "delta vee" (change in velocity) and tallying it up. Burn #1 You started at 2,270 m/sec and you ended at 2,507 m/sec. You therefore changed your velocity 237 m/sec. Burn #2 You started at 1575 and ended at 1791. Your change in velocity is 216 m/sec. The total DV of both maneuvers is 453 m/sec. Shortcut: Notice that the difference between velocities of the semi major axes of both orbits works out to almost exactly the same number? in a 95x95 orbit, your velocity is 2254 m/sec. in a 496x496 orbit, your velocity is 1795 m/sec. The difference between them is 459 m/sec. I often use this shortcut when I'm feeling lazy. This figure will always err to the cautious side. The reason you snuck 6 m/sec in on it is because you took advantage of the oberth effect in your burn. Best, -Slashy

Congrats to Bev7787 for completing the KSP Caveman challenge! https://screen.yahoo.com/unfrozen-cave-man-lawyer-1-223412426.html Mods and upgraded facilities frighten and confuse you! Best, -Slashy

Evanitis, You got it. Fuel lines from jet tanks to rocket tanks. Best, -Slashy

SoulShaper, Pretty much everything you need to know: http://www.braeunig.us/space/orbmech.htm Best, -Slashy