Monthar

@ Moonfrog If the OP is using MechJeb's execute it automatically turns the default SAS off unless they changed the settings to use the default SAS instead of MJ's Smart ASS. OP, do you have RCS on the ship and is it on or off when this problem occurs? Do you have enough electrical power to keep the reaction wheels powered up? Without enough power, they could be dropping the electrical power to zero when MJ starts turning toward the node, then not have enough to stop the turn.

You wouldn't be able to just grind the Mun and Minmus, because you only get the science once per experiment/report in each location. So, you'd still have to send missions to the other planets and their moons. With earning approximately 3000 science per planetary system, You'd only have to hit half the biomes, or all the biomes on half the planetary systems to get all the science you need to completely unlock the entire tech tree. Therefore, it would encourage missions to more places. With the ability to bind the experiments and reports to an action group you can have 1 button to do all of them in each location, thus less clicking. Sure if you take multiple materials bays and goo canisters that were installed with symmetry you'd have to not put those on the action group since that would fire off all of them at once. But then with changing the science lab to give full recovery value with a transmission of anything it processes, you would only need 1 of each of them. They could always keep multipliers in for the other planetary systems. So Kerbin's planetary system could be at the 3000ish mark, with Duna's and Eve's at 3500ish, Moho's and Dres' at 4000ish, Jool's and Eeloo's at 4500ish. But then, you could max out with just Kerbin, Eve and Duna systems, so no reason to ever go to Kerbol, Moho, Dres, Jool or Eeloo unless using a mod that needs more science. As it is now, there is no reason to ever go beyond Minmus, nor to visit any of the biomes on Kerbin. I could try to figure out how to make a mod that does this to test it out, unless someone else wants to.

What prompted me to make this balance suggestion was a combo of watching videos and making 2550 science myself with just a single launch to Minmus from just crew reports, EVA reports and soil samples. Such as Scott Manley completing the tech tree with over 1600 science to spare using just two launches and only going to Minmus and Mun and I think Duna. If you don't want to read the entire post, I included a summary at the bottom. We currently have 7 planets we can visit, plus their moons and the sun. It takes 10,098 science to unlock the entire stock tech tree. That comes out to approximately 1442.6 science per planetary system. My suggestion is to give a max of approximately 3000 science per planetary system (planet plus its moons) divided equally across all the biomes for that planet and its moons. That means we would only have to visit half the biomes in the solar system to max out the tech tree, provided all the science is returned, instead of transmitted, or a science lab is on the mission. Add another 1000 from the sun, divided between high and low orbits. If we visit every biome with every experiment, including the sun we'd earn more than double the science necessary to unlock the entire stock tech tree. Set the transmitted value for all data that is purely data, ie. doesn't require a sample, to 75% of the recovery value. Those that requires samples (soil sample, goo canister, materials bay) transmit at half value. Anything processed by the science lab negates the transmit penalty, ie. data collected and process will transmit for the same value as recovery. This part is more about making the science lab worth using instead of just taking a bunch of materials bays and goo canisters and bringing their data back. Along with this, to keep things simple, only give science for the first time you do an experiment, crew report, eva report for each biome. To further simplify thing, make all experiments and reports have the same value if performed in the same biome. So, a crew report, eva report, soil sample, goo observation, etc performed on the launchpad would all give the same amount of science. Between Kerbin, Mun and Minumus there are approximately 73 locations between 33 biomes, 33 flying over each biome, flying in upper atmosphere on Kerbin and low and high orbits of all three bodies, thus max science from each location would be approximately 41 if every experiment and report were preformed in each location. Landed we have 9 experiments/reports (crew report, EVA report, temperature, gravity, atmosphere, seismic, soil sample, goo, materials bay) which makes them all worth 4.555 science each. While flying in atmosphere we lose seismic and soil sample dropping the total experiments/reports down to 7 making them worth 5.857 science each. In space we also lose the atmosphere reading, dropping the total experiments/reports to 6 making them worth 6.833 each. Therefore to simplify things if every experiment/report is set to a flat 5 science we would get 45 per biome when landed, 35 while flying over the biome, 35 in the upper atmosphere of Kerbin and 30 in low and high orbits over Kerbin, Mun and Minmus. Thus we'd have a total of 33(45+35) + 35 +6(30) = 2640+35+180 = 2855 from all locations on Kerbin, Mun and Minmus. If the upper atmosphere is also divided up by the biomes you're flying over for all reports and experiments that can be done there the total would be 33(45+35)+9(35)+6(30) = 2640+315+180 = 3135. Plus the extra little bit we can get from the landed on the runway, launchpad and KSC grounds. Plus whatever we earn from contracts on these three bodies. Then there are the contracts that add even more science. These should be balanced to only give as much science per contract as you could gain in the biome the contract wants you to test in. So, if a contract says to test engine X landed at Kerbin it should only give as much science as one experiment performed on the launchpad/runway. Based on the example above, all contracts would give no more than 5 science. All the extra science can be used by modders to add their new parts to their own techs in the tech tree. This would also help cut down on the clutter that some mods have where they put a lot of parts into a current tech. If modders feel they need more science than this, they can add additional science experiments, or more contracts to test the parts their mod adds. I'm sure by the time the game goes gold we'll have multiple biomes on all the planets and moons and possible even science from landing on asteroids and comets (if comets are added as well). Summary Make all experiments and reports worth 5 science if recovered. Pure data reports/experiments worth 3.75 if transmitted. Sample experiments (soil, goo, materials bay) worth 2.5 if transmitted. Science Lab processing allows transmission of everything worth 5 points. Contracts give a max of 5 science. No more diminishing returns from repeating an experiment/report in the same location.

I play the 32 bit version, because the 64 bit just crashes constantly.

After upgrading from 1.0.8.1 to 1.0.9.0 I started a new game. Now I occasionally lose the ability to transfer fuel between tanks. The transfer menu doesn't show. It started during my first launch after reverting the flight a few times. I have to save and close KSP, relaunch KPS and reload the save to be able to transfer fuels again.

After watching some crazy videos, including Scott Manley's KSP version 0.22 2 launches for massive science, I think I'll add the no leaving Kerbin SOI rule. His first launch was a Minmus landing, Mun encounter and return. Then I watched another guy's video pulling off almost 1700 science on the first launch with a Duna and Minmus landing. With the reduced science from transmissions and not being able to reuse the Science Jr. and Goo Canister without having a Science Lab to clean them in the 0.24.2.559 build (current iteration) that crazy 6000ish science Manley pulled off in the 2nd video likely won't be possible on the 2nd launch without pulling off the 1700ish sience the other guy managed in his first launch. For the new players, here are links to the videos I'm referring to. Scott Manley's 2 massive science videos. allmhuran's almost 1700 science on first launch Scott Manley does a great job explaining what he's doing instead of just showing you. I've learned quite a lot from watching his videos.

One of the rules is you have to return, so that Mun landing and not able to come back wouldn't qualify. Do you veterans think limiting the challenge to not allow leaving Kerbin's SOI would make it fair?

Very nice! I've already bookmarked it.

Both, because this isn't just for newbies to have a challenge they can attempt, but also to help them learn from the experienced players.

Scoreboard Monthar 217 points Don't worry folks, my score doesn't count, it's just in there as a benchmark. Before anyone asks, there are not any prizes. This is just for fun and to help the new players learn, while also giving them one they can try their hand at.

This challenge is meant to both help new players and to let them attempt it as well. The goal is to achieve orbit and return safely on your first launch in a new career mode game with the fewest parts possible, while also completing the first 4 contracts and gaining as much science as possible. All players are welcome to participate. Yes, that means new players, old pros and everyone in between. Rules 1: Pure stock build (no mods) with the latest version of KSP (0.24.2.559 is the current build). 2: Must be a new career mode game. That means you haven't done anything in this career. 3: Accept the first 4 contracts. Those are launch, achieve 5000 meters, reach space and achieve orbit. 4: Your ship must be able to land safely after achieving orbit (command module must survive). So don't forget the parachutes. 5: You are not allowed to accept any other contracts until you've landed and recovered this first ship. 6: You are only allowed to launch one ship before recovering the orbiter. So no launching a command pod by itself to the launchpad or runway while the first ship is in orbit just to get the extra science. 7: You are allowed to revert the flight, both to the launch and to the VAB as many times as you need to in order to figure out what will do the job. 8: No cheats, no editing saves, no debug menu. 9: You are not allowed to leave Kerbin's sphere of influence (SOI). So no science from Mun, Minmus or any any other planet or moon in the solar system. This is to keep the challenge fair for all levels of skill and experience. Orbit means both AP and PE are at least 70km. A new career mode game starts with 10,000 Kerbucks (or whatever they're called) and 0 science. Accepting the first 4 contracts brings your total funds to 36,506 Kerbucks. Scoring 1: 1 point for every point of science earned. Hint - Don't forget your crew and eva reports. 2: 1 point for every 1,000 Kerbucks you earn over the 36,506 you will have after accepting the first 4 contracts. Yes, you can recover the ship and any debris before submitting your entry. You are allowed to round off, so 91,989 Kerbucks earned would be 92 points. 3: -1 point for every 1,000 Kerbucks under the 36,506 you should have prior to launch. 4: -1 point for every part you use. Proof 1 & 2: Before launch and after recovery screenshots of KSC with the contracts expanded to show all contracts. This will also show your funds and science before the launch and after recovery. 3: Screenshot of your ship in the VAB with the load ship menu to show the part count. This should be the only saved ship file you have and it will show the cost of the ship which should match the cost displayed in the lower left of the VAB. 4: Screenshot of your ship in orbit with both the AP and PE highlighted to prove it is a stable orbit. You can highlight both by left clicking on their icons on the map screen. 5: Screenshot of your ship after landing/splashdown with your Kerbal doing an EVA. KSP's default screenshot key is F1. Steam's default screenshot key is F12. The folder your screenshots are in will depend on which of these two methods you use. KSP's screenshots are located at \Kerbal Space Program\screenshots. You may also provide a link to download a copy of your ship file, but this is not necessary. The file is located at \Kerbal Space Program\saves\name you gave your career\Ships\VAB. In a steam install that's \Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\saves\name you gave your career\Ships\VAB. In my case with steam on my E: drive and the career I created for this challenge named "Newbie Challenge" it is E:\Steam\steamapps\common\Kerbal Space Program\saves\Newbie Challenge\Ships\VAB You are allowed to post a video instead of screenshots as long as the video shows everything the required screenshots show. I did test this out before creating the challenge. I managed to achieve orbit and recover the entire ship using just 20 parts. Here is the ship file for the ship I used. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ga9249lbnrem4bo/Newbie%20Orbitor.craft?dl=0 Yes, I misspelled Orbiter in the name of the ship, but have since fixed that on my end. I forgot to take screenshots during the test so I'll redo the challenge and add the rest of them shortly. BTW, the ship I used in testing did fall over when it splashed down and the command module broke off, but nothing was destroyed. Here are the screenshots. Pre-launch VAB Orbit Achieved As you can see I have just a sliver of fuel left in the main engine for the de-orbit burn. I hope I don't have to get out and push. Splashdown One fuel tank was destroyed when the command capsule broke off. Post Recovery Ending funds 128,495 - pre-launch funds of 36,506 = 91,989 Kerbucks earned for 92 points. 144.9 science earned for 145 points. 20 parts used for -20 points. Total points for my attempt is 92+145-20 = 217 points. A new rule, #9 has been added to make this more of a fair challenge for all skill levels.

Perhaps you could require the zero thrust for multi-tank transfers only and leave the current transfer ability as is. In other words, only allow the transfer menu to show when selecting the 3rd or higher tanks if thrust is zeroed out.

Did they shut down because they ran out of fuel/oxidizer or a jet that was starved of air, or was this after you set the throttle to 0 (repeated left-ctrl until 0 or just hitting the X key)?

For SRB's just flip them over and put them on the top of the command module. Then when you fire them they're thrusting your command module into the ground. You can even recover the vessel while they're still firing to get back most of the money (depending on how quickly you hit the recover button) for the solid fuel too. So just hover the mouse over the recover button and hit the space bar to fire them off and immediately click the recover button. I just tested this.

You don't even need to remove the fuel, just set the throttle to 0. Edit: Here's my Newbie Orbiter design. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ga9249lbnrem4bo/Newbie%20Orbitor.craft?dl=0 This ship file can be used with a brand new career in a pure stock install. It has a total of 20 parts and to help with controlling the ship during launch the SRBs have their throttle limited to 60%. With this design I was able to achieve and circularize an equatorial orbit of about 75km with more than enough delta-v for the de-orbit burn. I did successfully splashdown with this ship. The command module did brake off when it fell over in the water, but nothing was destroyed. It doesn't have an antenna, because I wasn't planning to transmit anything back.

Now that you've shown you can take off without even firing the engine I wonder if it's possible to push it into orbit by firing the engine after reaching your glider's ceiling.

I haven't seen Gravity yet and ya'll are spoiling it. j/k about the spoiling, because I figure the previews pretty much did that already. Even with what I've learned I don't get annoyed with games or movies for not being realistic. The reason I don't get annoyed about the realism is because I know they are fictional. I don't even get annoyed with simulator games, because they are games and have to give up on some of the realism for the fun factor. In fact the only way any simulator can even come close to realism is if it's one of the simulators real pilots use in training that have all the actual controls they would have in the aircraft the simulator was designed for.

Yes, it says "KSC Security Patrol". I don't care if it's really for Kennedy Space Center, I like that it could be Kerbal Space Center. Since Kerbals are little green folks from a different, but similar, solar system than ours, this evidence could also be taken to mean NASA is working with aliens.

I did this a few weeks again and kept forgetting to upload the screenshots. The first Kethane miner I sent to the Mun, I mistakenly added all the science instruments instead of making it just a mining ship. So once I got a new, improved miner to the Mun I decided to bring this old one home to recover all the science for full value. However, this ship wasn't capable of safely landing back on Kerbin and I hadn't even downloaded Kerbal Attachment System yet (the latest version was for .23 and I bought the game on Steam during .24). So I built a massive frame with some parachutes on top to dock the mining ship to. Since I also had a rescue contract I added an empty command capsule to the structure. Without further adieu, here is a link to a slideshow of the screenshots of the rescue rig with its launch stage after research orbit and several with the mining ship docked. http://s738.photobucket.com/user/Monthar/slideshow/KSP%20Epic%20Rescue%20Rig The first attempt to land ended in complete destruction, because with all the parachutes deploying at once the the docking connection broke. After a reload I change the parachutes to a staggered deployment and was able to successfully recover the ships with no damage.

I just saw this on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152755163163586&video_source=pages_finch_thumbnail_video Look closely at the name on the security vehicles.

Kerbal Engineer would be another way.

The only way to not get infiniglide going is to have no control of the aircraft what-so-ever and nothing that generates lift. That is no control surfaces at all, no reaction wheels and no wings. All it takes is being able to set the right pitch angle for the lift generated by the wings to give more positive vertical speed than negative as speeds oscillate. At least that's what I've observed while testing various aircraft in stock. So to completely prevent infiniglide would turn this challenge into just a ballistic missile challenge instead of an aircraft challenge.

After getting my computer up and running again I found some corrupted windows files and had to reinstall the OS. While at it I also moved most of my games to a 2nd HDD. Thus I didn't get around to flying more of this challenge until today. Here's a preview of my upcoming entry. This is my first circumnavigation flyover of the KCS. Edit: I forgot to mention that prior to launch I removed all the mono-propellant from the command module. Since I wasn't going to be using any I didn't see any need to carry the extra weight. Edit2: I landed on the KCS runway after the 3rd circumnavigation. I could have kept going, but I wanted to end this attempt. Rather than filling the post with all the screenshots, here's a link to the slideshow. It is 18 of the 120 normal screenshots, both normal and map views, I took during the mission, including the 2 flyovers of KSC, several of the landing sequence on the 3rd circumnavigation and Jedediah doing an EVA pose after the landing. Total mission time 6 days 2 minutes and 21 seconds. http://s738.photobucket.com/user/Monthar/slideshow/KSP%20BACC%20Glider%20Challenge

Good news for my pc. I found the modular power cables (can plug into any modular power supply) from the old power supply for the DVD and the HDD both had a short. It was possibly just dust in one of the connectors in each cable, but I swapped both out with the new modular cables that came with the new power supply and now my system boots up with no apparent problems. Well one of the three case fans quit working, but that's a much cheaper fix and the system can run just fine without it. So I should be able to submit my attempt soon.

I made a fresh stock install folder and added just engineer redux, enhanced navball, kerbal alarm clock, toolbar (mainly for the alarm clock's button) and active texture management. Then I started a new career and edited the save to have the initial contracts give 100x science and funds just to be sure I could unlock the parts and have the cash to launch my attempt without having to spend days building them up. Before making the fresh install I had already designed and tested a nice looking delta-wing bi-plane, so I copied that aircraft file over to the new install and verified that it was in fact all stock parts. I launched the plane heading due east, got up to an altitude of about 13km and dropped down to around 9900m before I got the SAS to stably hold my pitch between 15 and 20 degrees. At that stable pitch the aircraft can glide with a vertical speed oscillation between -5m/s and +5m/s and maintain the altitude between 9600m and 9900m pretty much indefinitely. I say pretty much, because every now and then the SAS would glitch and drop the nose which would take until about 6500m altitude to get it stabilized again. However, once stabilized the aircraft would slowly gain altitude until back up to the 9600-9900m range. I think when it would hit 10km altitude is when the SAS would glitch causing the sudden pitch down. With that stable flight I was able to get up from the computer and watch tv and only have to check on this epic flight every 20-30 minutes. Last night I did this for about 1d 3hrs flight time before I was too tired to stay awake any longer. So I saved and paused the game intending to continue this flight when I woke up. The flight was just about past the big desert, ie. most of the way around on the first circumnavigation. While I was sleeping we had a thunderstorm blow through which caused the power to go out like usual. I suspect this time it was probably another of those brown-out situations where the power would drop, return and drop again a few times before coming back up to normal levels. So when I woke up, unfortunately my computer wouldn't power up. After determining the power supply was fried and picking up a new one at Best Buy, I then learned that when the power supply blew it took out the cpu, motherboard or both. Since I can't see any scorch marks or obviously blown components, it seems I'll have to replace both the MB and CPU. At this point it might be a few weeks before I can get the parts to finish fixing my computer. That leaves me with just the wife's laptop to check forums and such.