Bill Phil

But if they don't wake up? What about that? Could it then be equated to death?

Arrakhis. Desert planet with some crazy spice. It's key for interstellar travel in the Dune universe. It has giant sand worms and the like. Home, also a desert planet. It's the home world of the Race, a species of intelligent reptile-like creatures. Pandora, which is a "habitable" moon orbiting Polyphemus, a gas giant. There's a few.

Well, it could have strange qualities that won't be apparent until it has a certain size. It could, keep in mind could have a different reaction to gravity, less of a reaction or even repelling it. But probably not. I'm saying that the best observations are empirical ones. Besides, we'll need that much antimatter before we ever build a decently sized ship to go interstellar. It's best to know what it's qualities are.

Do you know what additive manufacturing is? It applies to all materials in the same sense as 3d printers. Did you not read those very inportant words? But on to the next point: AI is NOT needed for Von Neumann machines. That's like saying you need AI to guide a spacecraft to its target objective, which you don't. I don't get why you keep stressing AI at all, they're all going to be many dozens of tons with many megawatts of waste heat and the only advantage is that they can think. That's not an advantage this close to Earth. Sure, that would be useful for a starship, but not for anything like Von Neumann machines. It's difficult due to trial and error, learning what happens. The hardest part is patience, to see if it worked. If you think that genetically modifying humans is easier, then why have we not? Oh yeah, it's really not. We still don't fully understand what these changes can do, so no one will get behind that and fund it anytime soon If NASA had the same funding as the 60s in the 80s too, they could have built a logistics system based around Freedom as a staging point in LEO.

Well, antimatter is way beyond our technology. We've only made a few particles of the stuff. The best way to contain it is to put it in an electromagnetic trap, but the trap needs to be extremely uniform or very very very big relative to the amount you're storing. Antimatter is actually kind of useless, except as a catalyst for other more useful reactions. That's what ICAN-II does. And it doesn't even need that much antimatter(less than a gram). Either way it's beyond us currently. So let's wait till we know more about antimatter, which means imperial observations. Which requires a large amount of antimatter to do. Although, Earth and Saturn have a good amount of antimatter trapped in their magnetic fields... And it's replenished...

The VASIMR uses microwaves to turn argon into a plasma. In fact, I don't think this is plasma as in super-hot, but ionized to the point of having no electrons. So it wouldn't necessarily help your engine's efficiency.

I don't think your analogy is very good. Mars is many light MINUTES away. Which means that it's a real tedium for the guys running the rovers. The moon is much closer. The operation would get easier and easier once you have the on-site logistics up and running, then the robots would build the base.

You would need chemical analysis tools, and tell it to check every fourth-meter. Problem solving? We have billions of problem solvers here. The Moon is only a little over a light second away. Although I suppose you would lose contact every once in a while. However, communications satellites could solve that problem. Maybe not SELF-replicating machines, but machines that are built by a larger "parent".

I don't think a universal algae as food is the best plan, it would probably take some serious trial and error. If we amplify already present traits, then we could use different forms of algae in the same diet. It wouldn't be as* difficult. If I recall correctly, algae is also extremely efficient at CO2 filtering. Does anyone know more about this? I guess some forms would be, but not all, considering that algae is a very broad term. I keep thinking back to Prelude to Foundation, where the Trantorians used micro-agriculture. I wonder if it would be useful as a cheap and easy food on Earth. That could help with food problems here and in space. * emphasis on "as", as most genetic manipulation is fairly difficult

We already have done that to plants, so why not algae?

Depends. You don't need 3d printing for self-replication. If it's a decent size it can use standard production methods, but it would be much larger and more complicated. We can build the machines I speak of, but nobody's tried to. Think of that for a while.

I wasn't over estimating 3d printing, and I was using the general term. Should I have said additive manufacturing devices? I said fairly near future, as in within 100 years but not 50. And if you consider how much technology is advancing already, it's likely. I don't understand why you need AI for Von Neumann machines, they're given input dependent commands. Then they're told to gather resources and build what they need to. Btw, I didn't hand wave anything... I just said fairly near future, which it is. What does GMO mean?

It then requires one launch of a small machine that would proceed to build the base. No construction equipment needed, just the machine.

Nope. 12. Come on, people, we all know this! But what about algae as a good source? I'm not an expert, but it should be easy, right? And then, what about underground caverns being pressurized? Is that practical* in any way? Or are surface domes more practical? *practical as in feasible

Can a mod please lock this thread? Nobody's on topic anymore... Either that or move all unrelated posts to a thread about Nuclear Winter. Please. I'm not the guy who posted the thread, but it needs to end if it goes on with people not talking about the moon that much.

I didn't say a single base, but I was trying to imply large city-states in a federation in Tycho or Copernicus.

You're probably right about that, but it depends where you land. If you landed near a geyser and then sent a small rover to it, a sample could be done that way. Wait, if it has geysers, then wouldn't it still have tidal heating? Maybe not an ocean but you never know... We were only there for a few days at most.

Besides, America isn't on the moon. Maybe UST, or United States of Tycho. Or USC, with Copernicus.

And that is...

Cassini had a lander with a parachute, and I'm not sure that'll help with Triton. But I see your point. We could mix them together into one launch.

Neptune has only been visited once. If we did send a mission there, we should start with a Cassini like mission, perhaps named after the guys who discovered it? Then we could consider a Triton landing, probably with a heavy launcher such as SLS or Falcon-Heavy.

Oh no, the first part about logistics was. But algae is actually considered as a food source for deep space colonies. It's easy to care for and is extremely common on Earth, which means that it can probably use a plethora of resources to grow. So it's a perfect food source. The Von Neumann machines are also not sarcastic comments. A 3D printer was launched to the ISS recently to print small plastic tools. An adaption in the fairly near future could mine materials and print pieces of itself, then it would assemble a copy and the process repeats until enough for construction are present.

Landing on it, obviously.

A Lunar Base is easy, especially if you built logistics back in the 80s.... Oh wait. We didn't. The ISS can last for a good while without resupply, and maybe algae could be used as food primarily. Recycling water will likely be common, so as to make the lunar ice last a long time. I recommend a crew of four, so you can use the buddy system at all times. The initial construction could be done easily with Von Neumann machines that construct habs with about half a meter of regolith for radiation protection. So, the base is easy, we just need to develop Von Neumann machines and maybe genetically engineer super-algae for food, and it recycles CO2.

Wow, that rocket is kind of cute, in a toy-ish way. Judging from size I'd say only a few kilograms for sample mass. I kind of want to build a rocket like that IRL, if it was possible for me to do so. *sigh*