richfiles

So I'm good to install on 1.0.4?

Man, that is one smexy looking' chair. how comfy is it... Aka, have you sat in it for 8 hours yet? We need the long term retrograde attitude endurance evaluation here!

This is what happens when you control a launch from an upside-down capsule, AND screw with your staging... Skip to 3:55 for the meat of the video.

I have this: I only wanted the fader lever to use as a throttle, and the smart dot matrix LED alphanumeric display modules (they are hard to see, because the plastic masks many of them very well, unless actually lit). The keys are very nice, and they have removable caps, but there are far more than I'll need, and I have these awesome little clicky pushbutton switches with LEDs that I've wanted to use for YEARS. I've considered desoldering all of these buttons and dropping the leftovers for sale or something. Oh, and they are all illuminated buttons.

To explain to those who do not know what a synchro is, a synchro is a type of control transformer. The primary winding can be rotated, and the secondary windings output a phase shifted signal based on the angle of rotation between the two. Typically, a pair of slip rings and brushes energizes a wound rotor, which generates a magnetic field aligned with the synchro shaft index (of course, it alternates, because you are feeding it AC). As you rotate the shaft, *the field angle rotates. The stator typically consists of a 2 or 3 phase set of windings (90° apart or 120° apart, respectively). These shifted phase angle stator windings pick up the amplitude of the magnetic field of the rotor at *different phase shifted angles (redundancy department of redundancy calling ) , allowing precise representation of the shaft position. In the control transformer variation, a higher power motor drive performs the motion, driven by a servo amplifier. There is a receiver synchro mechanically paired to the shaft of the motor, and the servo amplifier will drive the motor in the direction that causes the phase differential between he control transformer and the receiving transformer to be nulled. It also occurs to me, that between the DC bus driving the arduino and all the digital stuff, and the fact that an AC bus is required for the FDAI, I legitimately have cause to include DC and AC bus meters and switches on the panel, and it gives me an opportunity to trigger the gyro power fail flag, if the DC bus is on, but not the AC! Cool! ***EDIT*** I need to further research this... Speaking with an engineer the other day, He was saying that I may be confusing synchro operation with resolver operation. RESOLVERS are also I part I worked with... in fact, I'd say that I spent probably 95% of my time with resolvers, in comparison to maybe only 5% of my time with synchros. Resolvers use an inductively transmitted reverence and a pair of 90° sine and cosine phases to pick up a rotating phase shifted output. It seems synchros may actually rely on amplitude modulation in both the positive and negative, but no phase shifting occurs. If this is the case, then that means I could simply take the PWM outputs of an arduino, and drive them through a filter to get AC out of it, and feed that into an amplifier directly. I still have to have the arduino doing some math, but it could end up being rather simple. If I just have it perform math on an analog input, I could theoretically feed a reference AC sine wave into it, and then generate my calculated amplitudes using a simple positive or negative multiplier based on math performed on the input reference (either an input, or internally generated). If that's the case, I only need to generate ONE sine wave at 400 Hz, and then just generate 9 multipliers.

You should SEE some of the stuff I play with... I collect and occasionally restore vintage calculators. Restored a Sony Sobax ICC-600W last year. My oldest machines are my Smith Corona-Marchant Cogito 240SR and my Friden EC-132. Both machines use RDL... Resistor Diode Logic, using discrete resistors, diodes, and transistors! The Cogito is the blue black and white machine on the bottom shelf. The Sony Sobax is the black and silver one with the handle on the middle shelf. The keyboard on the middle shelf is from a 1976 Sperry-Univac Uniscope 100 police terminal. I have actually considered trying to use that on the control module as a regular keyboard... But a LOT of the keys have non modern shifted special characters, and it's a very non standard layout... Not sure I want that as my "regular" keyboard. If I ever move into a bigger place, and find myself in the situation where i can dedicate a computer to gaming... Then I may use it then... Someday... Look at all those resistors and diodes... Not a chip in sight!!! I do apologize for the derail, but I couldn't help but respond to an RTL comment with an RDL reply!

Hmm...I'll post the data here... but I might do that later... This type of FDAI uses a 115 volt 400 Hz signal**, driven through synchro control transformers (rotated by the gyro assembly) wired in either a Y or Δ configuration... I haven't determined that detail yet, but I'm 90% sure it's Y configuration. There are 9 synchro signal lines (3 per synchro/axis) as well as the base inverter reference signal going into it. My FDAI has not yet arrived as of this writing (ARU-11A, from an Israeli F-4 Phantom simulator)... Mil spec site says 3 axis, specifically "Three axes attitude indicator used to provide continuous pitch, roll and azimuth information". Funny, I used to BUILD synchros for both the US DoD and some weather tracking equipment suppliers at my old job! IF ONLY I STILL HAD SOME SYNCHROS!!! Reference/Power is 115 VAC @ 400 Hz Synchros are supplied by 28 VAC @ 400 Hz Unit displays: PITCH OF ACFT; BANK OF ACFT; GLIDE SLOPE; BANK STEERING; PITCH STEERING; RATE OF TURN; INCLINOMETER Elsewhere, I found the pinouts: "The heading, pitch and roll can be moved using synchros. Pin connections are: A=Ground, B=115 V- 400 Hz, F=Heading-x, G=Heading-y, H=Heading-z, J=Glide-slope-flag+, K=Glide-slope-flag-, P=rate-gyroscope-power-warning-flag+, R= rate-gyroscope-power-warning-flag-, S=glideslope-pointer+ , T=glideslope-pointer-, U=vert-ptr-flag+, V=vert-ptr-flag-, W=horiz-ptr-, X=horiz-ptr+, Y=vert-ptr-, Z=vert-prt+, a=pitch-x, b=pitch-y, c=pitch-z, d=roll-x, e=roll-y, f=roll-z, g=lighting (5 V), h=lighting (GND), C,D,E,L,M,N and j not used. Funny thing, I almost panicked and thought that I had bought a 2 axis unit by mistake, cause I couldn't see the yaw X, Y and Z in the pinout. Using heading as the label threw me WAY off! I eventually figured it out. The flag items are small solenoid like actuators that flip out warning flags on the unit. The pointers are basically analog meters. I do not know if they are voltmeters or ammeters. I have not yet determined this information. The lighting only requires 5 volts. You could operate this two ways... You could use an arduino with 10 analog outputs (smoothed PWM, I guess) and processing to simulate the 10 phase shifted 400 Hz sine waves needed (one reference, and 9 synchro signals), and feed those into an amplifier that can drive the 115 volt outputs at the 400 Hz frequency... The other way is to buy three synchros, and mechanically pair them to some stepper or continuous rotation servo motors, and drive the motors using a more traditional motor control program to represent the three axes. Then all you need is a single 115 volt, 400 Hz inverter to supply the FDAI and synchro control transformers. Simple! Right! ***NOTE*** This information is specific to the ARU-11A Flight Director Attitude Indicator, but other 3 axis FDAIs will likely have similar controls. Due to the fact that 115 volt AC power and 28 VAC signals are used... You DEFINITELY want to confirm you have accurate connections before applying power.

I'll be honest... I've been planing a custom kerbal controller for a LONG time now, and have been collecting parts/learning Arduino. I guess pointing out the potential with the Farmnig Simulator side panel's potential use in KSP is for those who are not hardware savvy... Not everyone wants to spend a fortune on a custom command module controller that can only be used for Kerbal Space Program. I have plans for a massive custom controller, built into my desk. I made the desk in 2001, when I had 3 CRTs. Now I have 3 LCDs, and a LOT of empty space. This is what I'm aiming for... If I can build a sturdy pivot, I might lower the control surface to keyboard level, and rig a swing out keyboard tray (instead of a slide out tray). It would attach to the right side of the controller to secure and stabilize it, and rotate to the left side of the controller. The mouse tray would still slide out. I am also considering a pair of "notches" on either side of the controller to serve as a place to hold a tablet or two, etc. As far as the desk goes, I only have to cut out the notch. to make room for the controller. I doubt I'll actually buy the Saitek Farming Simulator side panel, but only because I already have so much invested in a custom Kerbal controller already... I would like to integrate a selectable mode option though, HID+keyboard emulation or kerbal specific control mode. I have QUITE a few other "toys" saved up for the day I figure out how to coding on an Arduino... Yeah, I've always been a hardware guy... I haven't programmed since I used BASIC on my Commodore 64 and my TI-86. I'm learning Arduino and C now. Anyway, I have some pics earlier in this thread, so no need to repost... They were on Page 5, I think. Besides those pics, there is also these: My 4 inch (10 cm) Vertical Velocity indicator (aka, the "Am I gunna die" meter). Note, that I'll make a custom faceplate for it, and indeed, for ALL my meters. My 6 inch (15 cm) edgewise meters, along with my 10 inch (25 cm) VFD screens, and my Abort and Stage buttons. Note the nice color insert in the staging button, vs the cruddy old temporary insert from the pic on page 5. Finally, there is my FDAI... aka, the navball! This type of FDAI uses a 115 volt 400 Hz signal, driven through synchro control transformers (rotated by the gyro assembly). There are 9 synchro signal lines (3 per synchro) as well as the base inverter reference signal going into it. My FDAI has not yet arrived as of this writing (ARU-11A, from an Israeli F-4 Phantom simulator)... Mil spec site says 3 axis, specifically "Three axes attitude indicator used to provide continuous pitch, roll and azimuth information". Funny, I used to BUILD synchros for both the US DoD and some weather tracking equipment suppliers at my old job! IF ONLY I STILL HAD SOME SYNCHROS!!! Unit displays: PITCH OF ACFT; BANK OF ACFT; GLIDE SLOPE; BANK STEERING; PITCH STEERING; RATE OF TURN; INCLINOMETER Elsewhere, I found the pinouts: "The heading, pitch and roll can be moved using synchros. Pin connections are: A=Ground, B=115 V- 400 Hz, F=Heading-x, G=Heading-y, H=Heading-z, J=Glide-slope-flag+, K=Glide-slope-flag-, P=rate-gyroscope-power-warning-flag+, R= rate-gyroscope-power-warning-flag-, S=glideslope-pointer+ , T=glideslope-pointer-, U=vert-ptr-flag+, V=vert-ptr-flag-, W=horiz-ptr-, X=horiz-ptr+, Y=vert-ptr-, Z=vert-prt+, a=pitch-x, b=pitch-y, c=pitch-z, d=roll-x, e=roll-y, f=roll-z, g=lighting (5 V), h=lighting (GND), C,D,E,L,M,N and j not used. You could do this two ways... You could use an arduino with 10 analog outputs (smoothed PWM) and processing to simulate the 10 phase shifted 400 Hz sine waves needed (one reference, and 9 synchro signals), and feed those into an amplifier that can drive the 115 volt outputs at that frequency... The other way is to buy three synchros, and pair them to some stepper or continuous rotation servo motors, and drive the motors using a more traditional motor control program to represent the three axes. Then all you need is a single 115 volt, 400 Hz inverter to supply the FDAI and synchro control transformers. Simple! Right! As cool as all this is... Not everyone has the skill or time to do something as ambitious as this. I still stand by the assessment that the Farming Simulator side panel looks like an ideal kerbal space program controller. Pair it to another 3 axis primary stick, and you have all the controls you ever needed to lithobrake on Eeloo.

Are you doing a virtual navball using an LCD, or did you acquire a real FDAI? If the real deal, could you kindly share the technical aspects involving how you are intending to drive it? I know the real ones use a 115 volt 400 Hz signal, driven through synchro control transformers (rotated by the gyro assembly). Just curious, if that's what you're doing, what type of inverter/amplifier setup you're using to drive the synchro outputs. There are 9 synchro lines and the base inverter source going into these things. I'd just like to compare notes, as my FDAI has not yet arrived (ARU-11A, from an Israeli F-4 Phantom simulator)... Mil spec site says 3 axis, specifically "Three axes attitude indicator used to provide continuous pitch, roll and azimuth information". Funny, I used to BUILD synchros for both the US DoD and some weather tracking equipment suppliers at my old job! IF ONLY I STILL HAD SOME SYNCHROS!!! Unit displays: PITCH OF ACFT; BANK OF ACFT; GLIDE SLOPE; BANK STEERING; PITCH STEERING; RATE OF TURN; INCLINOMETER Elsewhere, I found the pinouts: "The heading, pitch and roll can be moved using synchros. Pin connections are: A=Ground, B=115 V- 400 Hz, F=Heading-x, G=Heading-y, H=Heading-z, J=Glide-slope-flag+, K=Glide-slope-flag-, P=rate-gyroscope-power-warning-flag+, R= rate-gyroscope-power-warning-flag-, S=glideslope-pointer+ , T=glideslope-pointer-, U=vert-ptr-flag+, V=vert-ptr-flag-, W=horiz-ptr-, X=horiz-ptr+, Y=vert-ptr-, Z=vert-prt+, a=pitch-x, b=pitch-y, c=pitch-z, d=roll-x, e=roll-y, f=roll-z, g=lighting (5 V), h=lighting (GND), C,D,E,L,M,N and j not used. You could do this two ways... You could use an arduino with 10 analog outputs (smoothed PWM) and processing to simulate the reference and the 9 phase shifted 400 Hz sine waves needed, and feed those into an amplifier that can drive the 115 volt outputs at that frequency... The other way is to buy three synchros, and pair them to some stepper or continuous rotation servo motors, and drive the motors using a more traditional motor control program. Then all you need is a single 115 volt, 400 Hz inverter to supply the FDAI and synchro control transformers. Or you're doing an LCD. Here's mine! Sorry, stock photo, as I said... Still in transit.

So, I had an opportunity to actually buy a real FDAI. I think it was from an F-4 Phantom simulator. Do you know anything about actually interfacing the real deal? it's not quite as fancy as the Apollo ones. It doesn't have all the needle indicators that that one does, but it is a 3 axis ball.

Haha! I wish I had that kind of space! I live in the fine state of Minnesota, don't cha know, where the state bird is the -l-o-o-n- mosquito, and winter lasts 6 months. The only other seasons are mud (1 month), road construction (4 months), and dust (1 month). Road construction also overlaps with both the mud and dust seasons. Good reasons to stay inside and Kerbal all year round! I think I have decided I will do a notched stair step cutout, so there will be a left and right side area around the controller. My tablet will go in one side, and the other side... I dunno. The two VFDs take so little vertical height, that I think overhead mounting is begging to happen. I might do additional meters on the other side cutout, or reserve it for now. I STILL can't believe I have a REAL FDAI on the way! I just hope I can do something with it other than have my controller look pretty. I kinda figured it was C... But you see, I lever learned C. I suppose I need to do something to remedy that. The one thing I'm good at... TTL logic design... I designed a walking robot in 17 74xx series chips once. It had 9 walking gaits (if you count stop). When i designed it, I had stayed up al night working on it. The next day, i forgot how it worked, and took 3 days to decipher it! I'd taken to Xilinx CPLDs to pack large amounts of logic in a single chip, cause that's simply what I know. WHY!!! Why logic, Y U no good enough! KRIKEY!!! Display ALL the telemetry!!!

Ha!!! Snagged this beauty for my vertical velocity meter. I'll replace the faceplate with one that matches the logarithmic vertical speed scale in KSP, and I'll mount it rotated 90° (as shown) to match the way the meter appears in the KSP window. The vertical velocity meter is of critical importance to me. As I said earlier, it's the "Am I gunna die" meter. UPDATE: I'm broke... Like, seriously BROKE... But I BOUGHT ONE...

Part of why I'm considering using the panel is simple... It opens like a car hood, complete with spring and lever mechanism that holds it open without a stand rod. You turn those two screws on either side a quarter turn, and lift the front lip, and it pops right open! Unfortunately, it's larger than I may need, and I'd need to replace the top panel anyway, so I can mount the switches and stuff I want. By that point, you have an all new surface, and you may as well do the entire thing from scratch to fit the application. If I had a dedicated Kerbal computer, and space for a genuine cockpit space, then I'd totally consider using the panel as it is. I will most likely need to notch my computer desk. I built it back in 2001, when I ran 3 giant CRTs. I can stand on it if I like! It's pretty strong! Since I have LCDs now, It kinda goes without saying that there is wasted space. I might also create a removable false top that can cover the controls to give me a proper desk surface when the controls are not in use. If I mount it into the desk, I WILL have to sink the meters into the desk though. They are so big that they almost interfere with my view of the monitors anyway! I may only salvage the spring mechanism though, for servicing. Maybe not even that. I don't know. Truth is, that panel is VERY thick (maybe 5 inches), and would prevent me from having a comfortable keyboard tray. I need to thin the base by a significant amount for it to even fit. Even the picture I did is not going to give me much leeway. The depth of the joystick mechanism may be my biggest limiting factor in terms of thinning the horizontal panel. I may also make the notch trapezoidal. That'll give me better clearance to reach controls**. In addition to the meters and controls that are handled by this hardware mod, I might also tear apart a USB keyboard and map all the other keys that associate with things like warp and IVA views, etc as well. I'd LIKE to have no need to use the keyboard at all with this panel. Fortunately, I'll have plenty of clearance for the mouse under the desk, even with the tray pushed all the way back. **I just realized, that if I make the side panels at a shallow enough angle, I could theoretically mount the pair of VFD character displays on either side panel... I kinda like that I guess I should explain some of the stuff in my image too... The round meter on the right is going to be the vertical velocity meter (aka: the am I gunna die meter). These meters are readily available online in the round, center rotational configuration that matches the in game meter. I want to keep this meter familiar. I guess the other question, is it better to have a reversible polarity, center zeroed meter, or just have a 0-100% meter and have the arduino output 50% for the centered zero position? On the left are the edgewise meters that will indicter resources. In the center, is going to be the LED displays, arranged in a DSKY layout. We've already seen Kerbal themed DSKYs here, so we all know what to expect there. On the top right, I will try to fit one of the large VFD displays. If there isn't room, I'll either surface mount them in the horizontal panel, mount them to the side panels, if I put them in at a shallow enough angle to be properly viewed, or overhead mount them on the bottom edge of the upper shelf. I'll try to keep the data there limited to lesser used things, like semi-major axis, etc. The DSKY will do Altimeter, Apoapsis, Periapsis, and Inclination, along with dummy light indicators for SAS, RCS, Brakes, Gear, Lights, and maybe some other things. I may try to fit a few extra lines of LEDs on the DSKY, so I can fit Velocity and Radar Altimeter on it as well. I definitely want to have time to Apoapsis and Time to Periapse somewhere too. The second right... My brother owns a custom deuce and half as his everyday truck... To his credit, he DID take off the third axle, so it only has 4 wheels now... He built it ALL from military surplus. He has some connections, spent time serving, and knows places to look, and I've asked him to keep an eye out for an FDAI. I don't care if I never get it to function... I'll have a spot reserved for it, if he ever snags one! I do know they come up on the market from time to time. The great part is, that these fighter jet FDAIs are full 3 axis units like the ones used on spacecraft. They even tend to use the same color scheme and markings as the Apollo ones (minus the red gimbal lock zone). If I never get one... I'll be bummed, but I suppose LED displays or the VFDs can go there. Otherwise, a Saitek FDAI configured LCD panel readout could go there, or an old phone or tablet, setup with something like Telemachus. I might also "stair step" notch the desk, so a small cutout sits on either side of the larger center cutout. If I do that, I could do stuff like setup a tablet or two for additional readouts using Telemachus... Or it could be ANOTHER place to put the VFDs... ... I do have a deep, dark confession though... I am 100% a hardware guy... I build walking robots with no computers... It's all neural. I haven't done programming since my Commodore 64 and my TI-85. I don't even KNOW what language an Arduino even uses! When I see a problem, i think in terms of digital logic and analog circuits... Not code. I may need help to get this off the ground. I am also curious, as to what defines the 6 analog meter/64 7-segment display limit. is it simply the limitations of the hardware selected, and how feasible is it to go BIGGER? Is there more capable hardware that can handle more outputs, or could one have two arduinos, and have each display different data outputs, across 12 analog meters, and 128 7-segment displays? My two large VFD displays are another thing. I don't know the first thing about coding on an arduino, so I don't know what extra is necessary to communicate with both a VFD and with LEDs. They use a parallel interface, but I'm sure that can be fed from a serial to parallel chip to save I/O on the arduino. I wouldn't know the first thing about coding the thing to make any of it work though.

Yes, that is indeed a panel mounted trackball. The internal connector is the same as an ethernet jack, but obviously different. I do not yet know the protocol.

I'm just getting started. I'm at the part collection stage at the moment... But boy do I have some lovely parts! EVERYONE loves big red glowy buttons! This was a bad, temporary print, just to get an idea of what it'd look like. My throttle lever. In a former life, it was the fade controller taken from a video effects board. It's really nice, as it has a screw adjustable tensioner inside it! I will NEVER run out of illuminated buttons with user replaceable labels. EVER. **NOTE** this is NOT the command module. I HAVE considered using this as a base for my command module, but I might not. It's a source of buttons and the throttle lever. These displays are 10 inches (24.5 cm) wide!!! I have two. This is an absolutely beautiful image! The meters are about 6 inches tall (14.7 cm tall). If you compare to Apollo meters, you can see that these meters are FAR more similar to the style used than your typical meter. It was very hard to find edgewise meters of this size... and at a reasonable price AND measurement range. They tend to not be cheap. You can get 3 inch edgewise meters for much cheaper. I may need to notch my computer desk to fit this stuff! That's okay though. I built my desk during a time when used to run three CRT monitors. Now I run 3 LCDs. There is some empty space. I can afford to notch it out!

That looks nice and smexy! Regex already asked all the questions I had though... How does that stick feel and so on. I don't need to ask all the same things again. It does look nice though! The uniqueness of a custom rig is the only thing that really has me holding back on biting with the Saitek purchase. I've already posted pics of some of the hardware I've got. I am very tempted to still get the saitek, but to basically gut it for it's HID compliant internals and stick, and mount it all in a custom panel. For me, since I actually play BOTH Farming Simulator and KSP, it almost makes more sense to drive my tractor with a Saitek built Command Module!

http://www.amazon.com/YUEQING-OMTER-ELECTRONIC-TECHNOLOGY-OM300B-M2/dp/B00CS6O3SY 3 axis joystick http://www.amazon.com/YUEQING-OMTER-ELECTRONIC-TECHNOLOGY-OM400B-M2/dp/B00CS6O4NI 4 axis (3 plus button) I've considered getting these for a custom controller. I like them, but considering I also play Farming Simulator, it probably makes just as much sense for me to go with the Farming Simulator side panel controller from Saitek, and build a custom controller around it. But seriously... How can I deny SOME degree of custom controller when I have the goodies below!

I LOLed Alternatively, since so many modern farm implements seem to come with their very own COCKPITS... It's understandable why the darn things are so expensive! I dare any city slicker to even know what to do inside a modern tractor or harvester, and not screw something up. Respect for all the people out there, working in dusty fields, knowing exactly what to do with half a dozen or more sets of hydraulic levers, a hydrostatic drive or 2 or more gear ranges, throttle and torque converter, a pair of PTOs, and a swath of other controls and gauges. The only things I know of that consistently have more readouts and controls than typical heavy machinery, tend to be things that fly! In my experience anyway.

These landers are super cute! I love them!

But for someone that likes farming, they get it. Each of these games has a target audience. I have extensively played Farming Simulator 2013 on PS3, and I only havn't gone back to FS15 because I got hooked on Kerbal. The real appeal of Farming Sim games is the acquisition of bigger and better toys, and the ability to so more stuff. Ironically, Kerbal was the next logical step for me to follow... Trying to get better equipment, managing a budget, a workforce, and snagging those coveted new fields... Its very equatable to unlocking new R&D tiers, managing my budget, managing a crew of Kerbals, and snagging all that coveted science and destinations! Farming Simulator even covers your desire for a flight sim... Its physics can get wonky sometimes... I once launched a tractor 2/3 of the way across the map! Add moar boosters... or cultivators...

http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/farmside.html So... I am looking at this thing, and I am SO seeing a lot of potential for this. The Stick is 3 axis: forward/back, left/right, Twist CW/CCW. It's designed to toggle between two sets of control sets for 6DOF stick control (RCS/Attitude???). The thumbwheel is for cruise control (throttle). Those ten buttons up top are screaming Action Groups to me. The Switches are singing RCS, SAS, Gear, and Brakes. There are the 6 other yellow buttons, and the three buttons beside the stick... Maybe have the yellow buttons control lights, brakes, and gear, and use a pair of switches to lock abort and lock staging, and use the buttons near tyne stick for abort and staging... I can't tell if the large grey spot is a button or a logo plate. That'd make a great stage or abort button too, if it's a button! So... Am I the only one seeing the potential with this particular stick???

True, it was only an test of the orbital transfer stage or something like that... But still... I didn't even get to go properly UP, much less to space! Everything failed to stage once I was off the pad, including chutes! MechJeb failed me TWICE!!! Once on ascent (It tried to make it a descent). It failed me again, when my engines didn't stage either. Ugh!!! Resilient little bugger though, that little tin can I called "Mun Luna"! Jump to 3:49 or so for the fun bits. It was one of my earliest uses of MechJeb, and it was still setup from the pervious days Mun lander maneuverability tests. Note the Mun lander's orientation...

I myself put up a ship with a crew capacity of nine... four tourists, and five empty seats. I launched with a probe core, I rescued five new recruits (four from Kerbin, one around Mun), gambled that one of the five would be a scientist (she was), set up a near polar orbit around Mun and collected what science I could from orbit... All went well... Then I headed off to Minmus. In transit, I returned to the space center and checked for new contracts... Where upon returning to my ship, and loading the physics model of said ship, BOTH of the service bays on my ship glitched out, and were "shifted and off angle". The physics between the clipping parts seemed to cause phantom forces that caused the ship to spin uncontrollably (though it stayed in one piece, I have KJR installed). I learned that physics warp seemed to bump off enough precision at max speed that the glitching became semi controllable (axial spin was still uncontrollable, but I could still orient the ship using MechJeb's Smart A.S.S. (I mainly use Mechjeb for the information windows, orientation, and for the Maneuver Node Editor. I also use Nanogauges... cause seriously, they rock). I was still able to get my orbital and sub orbital requirements at Minmus for my tourists, abandoned any further Minmus science collection, and burned for home. I ran my engine for as long as it held out to decelerate in the atmosphere as much as was possible. I got down to about 1100 m/s by the time I hit the 30,000 m region, and despite minimal visual flame effects, my engine heat, combined with the friction eventually did blow it up. I ditched my engine and tank stage, and finished the decent on chutes. All my parachutes survived, even the off kilter ones in the small service bay up top, and nothing detached. I don't know if I even touched the ablator! Touched down in water, with all five rescued crew saved, the four tourists happy, if only a bit dizzy from the 10 day spin cycle, and about 1500 science! Woot! Anyway, from what I can assess, the consensus is that the service bays simply can not handle any degree of part clipping, period. You're fine if you never leave the ship in a manner that causes the physics model to unload (returning to KSC, of going on EVA or switching to another ship and traveling far enough away, sometimes time warp). Problem seems to happen on physics load for me. If it reloads the physics model, it has a chance of loading it wrong. I had a Science Jr sticking through the wall of my service bay at approximately 45°... It was STACK MOUNTED inside! XD Man, those two service bays were really dancing' a jig! Furthermore, this isn't just a Windows problem. This was happening to me on Mac OS X as well. Needless to say, I will suck it up and use more serve modules in the future, rather than try to jam pack those puppies!

I strongly disagree. At NO POINT should ambition be punished because you forgot to check for contracts! "Oh, I can just get the next one" is not an excuse for the early game rewards that are lost with losing such a BIG early contract! You can certainly go to Minmus as well as Mun... Heck, back when I was playing .25, my first flyby of the moon ended up having enough leftover Delta V that I turned it into a flyby of Minmus... and then I landed on Minmus, collected science from 5 biomes, and returned home... I didn't even plan on having a ladder or landing gear! I set her down on the engines! Thing was, I actually snagged my Minmus contract on that play through, and was FINANCIALLY, SCIENTIFICALLY, and REPUTATIONALLY rewarded for the deed. Had I failed to return to the space center (while in transit) to check for open contracts, I would have missed that reward. It is NOT an incentive to be ambitious when I lose rewards and notoriety and credit cause I "forgot to do some paperwork"! That'd be like Yuri Gagarin not getting credited for being in space first, cause the USSR forgot to file the paperwork for it to be internationally recognized... Sure you KNOW he was first, but in the game, it would be like getting no additional funding, no credit in the record books, nor political recognition, and not getting any scientific knowledge from the deed... It's absurd, and that's basically how the contract system is currently set up!!! CRAZY! The World's Firsts should be expanded to INCLUDE all celestial body Explore contracts. The triggers would be simple. The next bodies in line for typical exploration would automatically be generated at the appropriate times, but would also be generated early based on simple SOI interactions. A SURE fire way to trigger Exploration contracts would be for the game to simply watch if your orbital path takes you to into an SOI encounter with any celestial body, even for a moment. That should automatically trigger the contract (successful encounters, post burn, not maneuver node projections... You should have to actually have the Delta V to succeed in the trip). Basically, Mun would auto appear after you achieve your first orbit, but Minmus would auto appear in one of two ways: If you get an SOI encounter with it, OR if you complete the Mun contract. This way, you can take things a step at a time and do them sequentially, or you can do a double Mun + Minmus mission (like I did), or you could go to Minmus first! Super simple! Carrying on that idea, the contracts for Duna and Eve would appear automatically, after you complete both Mun and Minmus contracts, OR earlier, if you exit Kerbin's SOI. It could even be based on if your orbital velocity is greater than or less than the velocity of Kerbin (lower would trigger the Eve contract, while higher orbital velocity than Kerbin would trigger the Duna contract) Ike would appear as a contract the moment you encounter Duna's SOI, and Gilly, the moment you encounter Eve's SOI. Moho and Dres would auto generate after completing Eve or Duna (respectively), and then Jool, it's moons, and Eeloo. Again, any orbital burn that causes you to have an orbital path that crosses the SOI of a body should also trigger it's Explore Contract. It's not a complex thing. The game already checks certain parameters on the fly to auto generate and fulfill contracts. I see no reason it can't carry over to the Explore Body X contracts. **EDIT** And to clarify, I'm referring to the multi stage Explore Body contracts (One contract asking you to "Enter orbit", "Transmit or return science form orbit", "Land on body", and Transmit or return science from surface). These are the big contracts that should be automatic. The individual contracts... Stuff like "Jebs Junkyard wants you to place a flag on Duna" or "Sean's Cannery wants you to transmit science from Mun's surface"... Those would still be treated as individual contracts to be manually checked and accepted at Mission Control... I just see "settling" for the little ones as a poor excuse for accepting a flawed contract system. That doesn't include first explorations in with other World Firsts.

Yeah, I've seen that, but the size is ridonkulous, and I really like the style of the little biodome in the old pack a lot! I always preferred it for the scenic IVA from recliners, with hot -c-o-f-f-e-e- cider (my Kerbals drink green apple cider), as opposed to food production. I guess I'm not really into the really big stuff. I also don't feel I'm quite inclined to let my civvies into space yet! Jeb doesn't trust those nutty reproducing snack nabbers! I'll miss my old biodomes... I launched a WHOLE station with one of those and the S25 torus using 13 stacks of kerbodyne big-gas tanks, and 13 of the quad engines, all asparagus staged... I did it again, but that next time, refueled the beast and kept enough engines to land it on minmus... Yeah, I realize the torus isn't meant for landing, but pppthht! I wanted a Kethane mining land donut with trees on Minmus. I haven't used any mods that have you do any kind of space construction, and I don't use hyperedit. HE is boring... So... Is this node thing something that could possibly be fixed as a quick update and recompile type fix thing, or is this a major modification?