Psycho_zs

Girder to 3.75 and girder to 1.25 adapters would be nice indeed! What is that pony's heat production rate?

Girder docking port lacks CLS config (judging by model, it should be airtight in conjunction with pressurized girders)

Hm... my attempts to get NFT and DRE along stalled at the point where radiators' equalization and critical temperatures are approximately half of that without DRE. @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] { MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.99 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } @maxTemp=1900 } @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleStaticRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] { MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.99 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } @maxTemp=1900 } But anyway, that might become irrelevant soon. 1.0.3 could bring some possibilities. For example, radiators could have a switchable: either draw heat from skin, or 'pierce' the skin. Reactor core could be described in stock terms... But another rewrite and rebalance... Hang in there, Nertea!

Oops, I should've copypasted it instead of editing... Fixed that, there is only one moduleAeroReentry entry per radiator in cache now and it contains proper values. But actual maxTemp is still low, around 700-800K Other observations: - Thinner skin is less conductive, despite conductivity still set to 1, difference between body and skin temp increases, so I ended up setting skinThicknessFactor = 0.99, this reduced difference to minimum. Radiators are all about skin anyway. - When in timewarp, skin conductivity also failing (timewarps below 1000 of course). Inside heats up more with increasing warp. When timewarp is off, it slowly equalizes again. - At max power radiators equalize sooner with about half of nominal temp. GR-4 radiator at full power equilibrium with DRE: temp 529K skin temp 523K rad area 2.62m^2 exp area 2.37m^2 thermal mass 64 rad flux -400 UrlConfig { name = radiator-conformal-2 type = PART parentUrl = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2 url = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2 PART { name = radiator-conformal-2 module = Part author = ChrisAdderley mesh = radiator-conformal-2.mu rescaleFactor = 1 TechRequired = nuclearPower entryCost = 6400 node_attach = 0.107, -0.02, 0.00, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0 cost = 1600 category = Utility subcategory = 0 title = GR-4 Conformal Heat Radiator manufacturer = Kerb Kastria description = A small conformal heat radiator designed uniquely for the MX-4 reactor. From the box inset: "Six shall be the number of thy radiators, and the number of thy radiators shall be six". What an eccentric way of putting it. attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1 mass = 0.08 dragModelType = default maximum_drag = 0.2 minimum_drag = 0.2 angularDrag = 1 crashTolerance = 8 maxTemp = 1900 breakingForce = 13 thermalMassModifier = 1.0 emissiveConstant = 1.0 heatConductivity = 0.001 MODULE { name = ModuleGenericRadiator animationName = Radiator_Extend sunTracking = true raycastTransformName = Midlink pivotName = Midlink isBreakable = true HeatAnimation = RadiatorMedium_Heat HeatTransformName = MediumReactorRadiator Emissive = 0.7 EmissiveExtended = 1.0 Area = 2.99 AreaExtended = 2.71 Radiation = 100 RadiationExtended = 450 } MODULE { name = BBModule } MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.99 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } MODULE { name = GeometryPartModule } MODULE { name = FARAeroPartModule } MODULE { name = FARPartModule } } } GR-4 radiator at full power equilibrium without DRE: temp 1397K thermal mass 64 rad flux -400 UrlConfig { name = radiator-conformal-2 type = PART parentUrl = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2 url = NearFutureElectrical/Parts/Radiators/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2/radiator-conformal-2 PART { name = radiator-conformal-2 module = Part author = ChrisAdderley mesh = radiator-conformal-2.mu rescaleFactor = 1 TechRequired = nuclearPower entryCost = 6400 node_attach = 0.107, -0.02, 0.00, 1.0, 0.0, 0.0 cost = 1600 category = Utility subcategory = 0 title = GR-4 Conformal Heat Radiator manufacturer = Kerb Kastria description = A small conformal heat radiator designed uniquely for the MX-4 reactor. From the box inset: "Six shall be the number of thy radiators, and the number of thy radiators shall be six". What an eccentric way of putting it. attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1 mass = 0.08 dragModelType = default maximum_drag = 0.2 minimum_drag = 0.2 angularDrag = 1 crashTolerance = 8 maxTemp = 1900 breakingForce = 13 thermalMassModifier = 1.0 emissiveConstant = 1.0 heatConductivity = 0.001 MODULE { name = ModuleGenericRadiator animationName = Radiator_Extend sunTracking = true raycastTransformName = Midlink pivotName = Midlink isBreakable = true HeatAnimation = RadiatorMedium_Heat HeatTransformName = MediumReactorRadiator Emissive = 0.7 EmissiveExtended = 1.0 Area = 2.99 AreaExtended = 2.71 Radiation = 100 RadiationExtended = 450 } MODULE { name = BBModule } MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.99 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } MODULE { name = GeometryPartModule } MODULE { name = FARAeroPartModule } MODULE { name = FARPartModule } } }

OK, with this code numbers in cache are correct: @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] { MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{ skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.01 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } @maxTemp=1900 } @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleStaticRadiator]]:FOR[DeadlyReentry] { MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{ skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.01 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } @maxTemp=1900 } But radiators are still blowing up early, around 840K. UrlConfig { name = radiator-universal-1 type = PART parentUrl = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1 url = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1 PART { name = radiator-universal-1 module = Part author = ChrisAdderley mesh = radiator-universal-1.mu rescaleFactor = 1 TechRequired = heatManagementSystems entryCost = 14000 node_attach = 0.0, -0.00, 0.00, -1.0, 0.0, 0.0 cost = 3500 category = Utility subcategory = 0 title = XR-550 Standardized Heat Radiator manufacturer = Kerb Kastra Inc. description = Attach this deployable heat radiator to cool parts. attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1 mass = 0.19 dragModelType = default maximum_drag = 0.2 minimum_drag = 0.2 angularDrag = 1 crashTolerance = 4 maxTemp = 1900 thermalMassModifier = 1.0 emissiveConstant = 1.0 heatConductivity = 0.001 bulkheadProfiles = srf MODULE { name = ModuleGenericRadiator animationName = Radiator_Extend sunTracking = true raycastTransformName = LinkRotator pivotName = LinkRotator isBreakable = true HeatAnimation = RadiatorMediumUniversal_Heat HeatTransformName = MediumUniversalRadiator Emissive = 0.7 EmissiveExtended = 1.0 Area = 1.17 AreaExtended = 4.31 Radiation = 150 RadiationExtended = 1100 } MODULE { name = BBModule } MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry] { skinHeatConductivity = 1 skinThicknessFactor = 0.01 skinMaxTemp = 1900 } MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 0.12 } MODULE { name = GeometryPartModule } MODULE { name = FARAeroPartModule } MODULE { name = FARPartModule } } }

Here is a part of MM config cache regarding one of the radiators: UrlConfig { name = radiator-universal-1 type = PART parentUrl = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1 url = HeatControl/Parts/Radiators/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1/radiator-universal-1 PART { name = radiator-universal-1 module = Part author = ChrisAdderley mesh = radiator-universal-1.mu rescaleFactor = 1 TechRequired = heatManagementSystems entryCost = 14000 node_attach = 0.0, -0.00, 0.00, -1.0, 0.0, 0.0 cost = 3500 category = Utility subcategory = 0 title = XR-550 Standardized Heat Radiator manufacturer = Kerb Kastra Inc. description = Attach this deployable heat radiator to cool parts. attachRules = 0,1,0,0,1 mass = 0.19 dragModelType = default maximum_drag = 0.2 minimum_drag = 0.2 angularDrag = 1 crashTolerance = 4 maxTemp = 1900 thermalMassModifier = 1.0 emissiveConstant = 1.0 heatConductivity = 0.001 bulkheadProfiles = srf MODULE { name = ModuleGenericRadiator animationName = Radiator_Extend sunTracking = true raycastTransformName = LinkRotator pivotName = LinkRotator isBreakable = true HeatAnimation = RadiatorMediumUniversal_Heat HeatTransformName = MediumUniversalRadiator Emissive = 0.7 EmissiveExtended = 1.0 Area = 1.17 AreaExtended = 4.31 Radiation = 150 RadiationExtended = 1100 } MODULE { name = BBModule } MODULE { name = ModuleAeroReentry skinHeatConductivity = 0.12 } MODULE { name = GeometryPartModule } MODULE { name = FARAeroPartModule } MODULE { name = FARPartModule } } }

With I've tested DRE version 7.0.3 with NFE and the following code: @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FINAL { @MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{ @skinHeatConductivity = 1 @skinThicknessFactor = 0.9 @skinMaxTemp = 1900 } @maxTemp=1900 } Skin and internal temperature now level pretty good, that is fixed. But radiators are still blow up somewhere around 700 and skinThicknessFactor does not seem affecting skin thermal mass ratio at all. (edited @maxTemp, nothing changed)

I've got message from Starwaster, Latest version of Deadly reentry fixed skinHeatConductivity. In theory, the following code should make radiators compatible with DRE: @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FINAL { @MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{ @skinHeatConductivity = 1 // this line probably can be ommited: @skinThicknessFactor = 1 @skinMaxTemp = 1900 } } Can't test now, lots of things happening IRL.

Hi! With latest version I've got a weird bug: several seconds after loading the craft in space its center of mass (and camera) starts shifting away, rotation and orbit calculation gets messed up.

I've decided to get NFE and DRE along, but something is not working. Applied this patch: @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FINAL { @MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry]{ @skinHeatConductivity = 1 @skinThicknessFactor = 1 @skinMaxTemp = 1900 } } But radiator's skin vs part temperatures are still far from equal (something like 600K part, 120K skin), skin to part mass ratio still 1/10. And they are about to explode when reaching 800K, despite maxTemp for these parts is 1900. Log says my patch applied to desired parts.

Judging from description, it allows tapping into heat model without conflict between mods.

I tried this: @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleGenericRadiator]]:FINAL { !MODULE[ModuleAeroReentry] } But it didn't do anything. Looks like DRE taps into physics via ModualrFlightIntegrator. By the way, ModualrFlightIntegrator might have some potential worth investigating for NFT and it's reactors.

I've tested new Deadly Reentry, it breaks things, especially radiators (wraps them into skin). I've asked how to properly exclude things from this, will repost here.

How to properly write MM patch that removes DRE skin, or all DRE additions from part? Coating radiators with skin is a bad idea. (Nertea's Near Future Electric http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/51395-WIP-Nert-s-Models-Current-NFElectrical-HeatControl-testing/page88)

I'm noticing very ineffective behavior when SAS is used to hold a vector with RCS enabled. It looks like it fires in all directions at once, leaving only small imbalance to turn the ship to desired direction. I wonder if something can be done about that.

When it deviates past 1.5, only extreme luck will get it back. And it is pretty responsive, despite only one "Swivel". On reentry and chutes: Dropping the same return stage from 25km with 200m/s horizontal speed, mk16 chute and two small drogues semi-deployed, it accelerated up to 1.1M on 11km, went subsonic around 9km.

Using Fanno, trying to get this to orbit: It starts flipping irreversibly some time after going supersonic, anywhere random between 6km to 20km. Claw's bugfixes are not only about aero, there are other, both useful and cosmetic things in the pack like gimbal speed, MK3 strength, symmetry issues etc.

So, basically you're swapping stock conduction with your own conduction for radiators? And no core in reactors?

Hi! And thank you for great mod! I wanted to check if this is a proper behavior: 2.17t craft (Mk1 pod, service bay with science stuff, heat shield) dropped from ~20km (is it theoretically possible to launch rocket without fins?) While Mk16 chute is semi-deployed, around 10km the pod gained speed up to 1.3 Mach. Full deployment at 800m pulled about 14G. Is everything OK here? Minor bug: when deliberately cutting the chute, message says chute failed due to high speed. Also, here is a nice bugfix pack: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/97285-KSP-v0-90-Stock-Bug-Fix-Modules-%28Release-v0-1-7d-6-Jan-15%29-Misc-Utilities-%2818-Jan-15%29 One of the tweaks involves spread of symmetrically placed radial chutes, looks nice, but works only for stock. Any chance something like that would end up in FAR?

I agree, it is a great discussion. Nertea, knowing your work, whatever you end up with will be top class. I just hope that radiators would remain good conductive passive emitters (0.95/0.95), at least when attached to non-reactor parts. And let's hope that stock heat mechanics will mature with next KSP versions.

I personally nerfed all reaction wheels 10 times with this MM patch: @PART [*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleReactionWheel]]:FINAL { @MODULE[ModuleReactionWheel] { @PitchTorque *= 0.1 @YawTorque *= 0.1 @RollTorque *= 0.1 } } GIves much more sense to RCS

I've relaunch all reactors to space, first look: MX-2 with 8 XR-500: Radiators heat up while reactor is offline (never was powered on) It would be more informative if menu readout included both core temperature (internally simulated) and shell temperature (stock). - - - Updated - - - This affects: GR-EXP, GR-4, XR-500 GR-1 and XR-2000 work fine so far. I will power up MX-1 and see what happens... - - - Updated - - - Results for MX-1 Can you add some debug output to reactors? Core heat generation, core-radiators flux, core-shell flux. Any plans on connecting electric production with heat flux? Now heat production spools up instantly, but electric is not.

OK, to summarize everything... Reactor is presented to stock heat mechanics as an insulated shell, it has a heated core 'inside' governed by own mechanics. Radiators draw heat from core. If there aren't enough radiator capacity, heat overflows to reactor shell. If that is the case, then instead of radiators that have low conductivity and magically suck heat like refrigerators, let them be normal efficient radiators with 0.95 conductivity and 0.95 emissivity with the only trick - when attached to the reactor they would act as if they are attached directly to the core. Reactor's own low conductivity would prevent too much heat transfer from radiators to it and the rest of the ship. Reactor shell could have normal emissivity, no difficulties here. And radiators would still be usable as an organic part of stock heat mechanics alongside heat insulators and conductors.

Hm, I see heat created by radiators, some of it conducted back to the reactor and radiated away by reactor! - - - Updated - - - And they suck heat from parts that already cooler.

File is deleted [quote name='Nertea;1913378 New implementation of radiator heat system based on suggestions from Streetwind' date=' toggle it on or off in the VAB [*'] When on, radiators will become low conductivity high emissivity objects that will take heat out of the attached part and add it to themselves to be radiated