Cardano

Confirmed Originally Posted by Silpion How does this work? I just sent a craft with 2 labs to Bop, and no data ever goes into one of the labs. Both are staffed with two scientists each. Whenever I click the yellow button to send data to the labs, it only goes to one of them. Also, weirdly, the data stays in its original instrument, and I'm presented with the science pop-up a second time. Clicking the yellow button again brings up an error that the science was already sent to the lab, but I can still transmit the data. The second lab just sits there idle, with no data and some hungry kerbals. Staying in it's original instrument is by design.

It wont be too much worse to burn at Duna SOI, but the mid point burn is optimal. And if seeing the normal maneuver node while focus viewed on Duna is challenging ( or if you mix up normal and prograde when you grab them because they are basically on top of each other from that far away ) you can use 'precise node' to give you a simple window where you can make progressively smaller adjustments to the burn in the three cardinal directions separately. Took me a while to get used to focus viewing the target while manually grabbing the maneuver node markers on the screen so eventually I went looking for something better. and Aerobraking is the 'free' dV option when possible but it takes lots of practice figuring out how much dV you want to drop = how low in the atmo to target your PE. now that Aero has gotten a workover, it's even more complex because your angle of attack through the aerobrake matters quite a bit - so you have to keep tabs on your drag profile as you are performing the aero maneuver. Fun though, and very exciting. Cheers! Cardano.

AHA - now that makes sense. thanks for that. no reason to bring back the MPL then. just stuff the data in a command pod and bring that back with my Duna/Ike team. Thanks, Cardano.

Thanks for that - but I thought that only the MPL could store more than 1 experiment of a given kind ( temp scan ) ? hence me thinking to bring the second MPL up to 'take' all those experiments home. it's really not that hard to put an MPL into LKO and bring it back safely - just dont need (20) chutes on my duna mission. I understand the bonus from leaving the MPL researching in Duna orbit - but figure that losing that bonus wont be terrible given the long long interplanetary transfer window back from Duna. I should have the researching mostly done by the time I return launch from Duna orbit to Kerbin, but if there's anything left to research - I can have it chew on that during transfer. so mostly - I am not 100% sure that I understand what experiments can be stored in a command pod. can I take all (20) surface samples into a single command pod as long as they are from different biomes ? ( inside Kerbin SOI I just tend to return everything individually cause it's just simpler - but once you leave Kerbin SOI things start getting more difficult ) Thanks, Cardano.

Question as I am planning my first ( in this career game ) Duna/Ike mission : for the return trip should I plan on bringing all my science back in a MPL? Seems like I should be able to fill it with all the experiments and use it to house 2 scientists on the return flight. transmitting science when it fills on the way back, and then send up a second MPL from Kerbal absolutely filled with parachutes, transfer all the science to the new MPL and renter with that one to 'return' all the science. in .23 through beta I never needed science after I exhausted Kerbin, but I still have some nodes to unlock and it seems like this return MPL option makes the most sense. and while I am at it - I will need an ISRU setup for both Duna and Ike right? Duna to get me around the planet and Ike for my return fuel. at least that's what I am thinking. Thanks, Cardano.

in further news - I just took a pair of Mk1 pods with a shield and (2) radial chutes in at 3300ms straight down ( blasted to edge of SOI straight up and fell back down ) it was 'dicey' but I only lost 80 ablator, got about midway into red bar on temp gauge and only had about 1500 meters elevation when I hit 300 m/s and deployed the chutes. however, since I was over water - it was no problem on the landing. Moral of the story - with decent chutes and a water landing - reentry can be very forgiving. Cardano

also - with a north pole landing on Minmus that means just enough launch velocity to allow you to go into an immediate 90 degree heading and burn east ( kerbin retrograde ) -edit - snark explained the whole kerbin retrograde thing alot better than i did - but from the north pole you should be able to do an immediate kerbin retrograde burn straight out of minmus. he is correct however that with that much dV you can orbit minmus and still eject safely and slowly - giving you time to plan that manuever node and understand the physics of it. mostly - the whole LKO circularize option is excessive worry IMO since the heat shield can safely take you in even if you insertion angle is 90degrees ( straight down ) - as long as you have (2) chutes - 1 chute could very well mean disaster - so hopefully when you re-tooled that ship from single kerbal use - you added a second chute. otherwise I would rescue from LKO. until you eject from Minmus SOI. if you were equitorial on Minmus you would wait until you were facing kerbin retrograde to launch straight 'up' which would eject you from Minmus SOI into kerbin reentry path. As to Aerobraking - my experience in Kerbin SOI with 2 kerbal weight vessels reentering at ~3k ms is that it is often best to leave the 909 and FT-Lxxx on the ship instead of ejecting it and just using the heat shield. but in either case you will be fine for a direct reentry. I shoot for 35k PE and burn hard retro to empty the tanks as soon as atmo is observed heating the ship. you can keep the lander legs extended to increase drag and they will usually burn off ( safely ). Exciting but not deadly. pretty much with minmus you always have enough dV to do what you want. and pretty much with Kerbin SOI reeentries you wont 'splode. you can take your PE up to 40k and it might take 2 or 3 aerobrake orbits to land, but that should not be necessary with a heat shield. other neat tricks you can attempt : come in max drag oriented once the empty tank and engine are no longer able to thrust retro - they can still decelerate you with drag and you can ditch them if they get too hot. Only issues you might run into ( since they arent burning to a crisp ) are chute deployment. aim for an ocean as best you can cause a high mtn can ruin your day. and deploy the chutes in the 300 ms range - then use SAS torque to increase drag by pushing into a higher drag shape ( anything other than what the wind pushes you into naturally will increase drag and speed your deceleration . Finally - I also like the 909 and FT-Lxxx [and if any legs are left] since they can explode on touchdown and my precious kerbals are still safe. Just ran a test and a 41k PE got me a three hop to insertion with a 2400 ms velocity on final - and nothing got red temp bar at all ( I was even facing nose prograde the whole time ) You got this. Cardano

As others have said - Munar landing is a big step up from getting to orbit - and like a rendezvous its a very different skill set to develop than blasting into orbit and making/executing maneuver nodes. One suggestion that has not been made yet - is to try for a Minmus landing first. the gravity on Minmus is so much weaker that it's actually less total dV to get there and back than Mun, and it's about 10 times more forgiving to attempt the landing. also - it's got HUGE swath of flat that you can land on. if you've gotten a good handle on manuever nodes, then inclination changes to intercept minmus shouldnt be too hard to figure out - and there are good guides on when and how to best alter inclination to be researched as well. other tips : Do not try to land in the dark. not for a while. burn to land in the bright light of Kerbol. Look for a big flat spot - muns gravity combined with a crater's slope can be painful. unlock RCS for some small aiming adjustments - or add in more torque for more agility while not burning make sure you have a wide stable base to your ship ( doesnt sound like tipping is your problem *yet* but it will probably become an issue once you touch down Finally - think about adding in Kerbal Engineer Redux or some similar add on that gives you a little more information than stock ( even in career - you just have to add the part to the ship ) and it should help with knowing how high you are above ground ( not above 'zero' altitude ) Cancel ALL horizontal velocity at a high altitude ( KER can help with that as it shows the absolute value of the horizontal component in it's window ) and fall straight down. Then you can point straight up and manage just your vertical velocity component. feel free to take it slow and keep your velocity low - it might take *FOREVER* to touch down, but you will never be in danger of crashing - only in danger of running out of fuel - which is fine - just reload and let the velocity creep up a little the higher above ground you are. getting to know each lander's 'flight' characteristics for each body it lands on is part of the fun of the game. I've made some very graceful landers in my day and loved touching them down exactly where I wanted to the first time - and I've made some empty 'bases' for contracts on mun to support 11 kerbals that barely avoided exploding on impact but paid me my 359k funds thank you very much. [ for the record - one does not simply land on minmus with (3) hitchhikers, and orange and a mainsail ] Good luck - and stick with it. Crashes are half the fun - as long as every crash is a learning experience. Cardano

Thanks y'all - thankfully with this being minmus I can do any of the above. but SOI -> reverse seems like the surest bet. I would hate to need 600ms on the eva-kerbal or hit him instead of miss him but get close enough to [. I'm trying not to F5 but since it was bed time last night there nothing wrong with closing out kerbal and thinking things through

so I have a career contract to rescue a pair of idiots around minmus and did not notice before launch that they are orbiting in opposite directions. and now that I have the first one in the bag, erm command module, i need to figure out the mininum dV path to get into a similar but backwards orbit. I think I can manage it, but wanted to ask if it's best to go out to a large AP like with inclination changes, or to land and take off the other way. yes, I have a degree in physics and might be able to work out the math myself, but this is the 21st century and its so much easier to just ask others who know off the top of their heads. Thanks, Cardano.

the Docking itself is made *massively* easier with an add on like : Docking Port Alignment Indicator the rendezvous is just a matter of setting up a close-but-not-same orbit and working the 'point of closest intercept' unless you really want to get help there and then MechJeb is your savior. going vanilla - i'd work with what cephalo said. if the game seems to be stuck - deleting the maneuver node and re-making it seems to make it happier. Cheers - Cardano

Tourists - just stuff em in MK1 command pods stacked on top of each other. I put 6 on a swivel with 2 outboard SRB's and made the orbit contract like that. drags a ...... Cardano.

Also not answering your question - but Kelvin are not 'degrees' like Fahrenheit and Celsius are. they are just Kelvin, the way Pounds are just Pounds. Just my 2 cents. Cardano

Thanks - I will probably wind up nuking everything and downloading a new clean install. Mods installed : AVC / Precise Node / MechJeb / EngineerRedux / NavBallScale Windows - Steam - English tried closing / rebooting / new career game You see the Communitron extend and the packets transmit - and the energy go away - but after it says 'Done' then i get no change in Science total. oh well - i wanted to make my career progression a little more clean on a new game anyway - I only ever flew jeb before so my scientists and engineers were going to have to take some training flights anyway. all the help is appreciated. Thanks, Cardano. - - - Updated - - - And that fixed it. Bummer for the dead Mun MPL mission and starting a new career game - Yea! for being able to re-do career knowing more about it this time. Thanks for the help. Cardano

Thanks - Have already done that and it's got 500 data and 500 science now - so It's time to clean it out by sending all that info home. for what it's worth - I started a completely new career game - flew a mission to buy the communitron -and tried on the launch pad to transmit a crew report. it took time and energy and said it transmitted, but I got no science back in the space center screen and I can attempt to do the same crew report for the same value transmit again ( like it knows it didnt go through ) so either it's my install or some other corrupt file. I just wanted to be sure that it wasnt some feature I had missed in reading the release notes ( like ' you must upgrade mission control to level 2 before you can transmit science ' or 'you have to build a *thingy* to transmit science ) . Thanks, Cardano