ToukieToucan

January 19, 2016

5 minutes ago, stibbons said:

So get creative - Send an uncrewed lander first with extra supplies, and then try to land your crewed mission nearby.

For bonus points, use the KIS/KAS mods to transfer fuel and life support supplies from the supply drop to your crewed lander for the trip home.

Interesting, though how do I semi precisely land near a target? Mostly the shown trajectory shown doesn't take the rotation of the planet in account.

January 19, 2016

36 minutes ago, Evanitis said:

I thought this question will include lazyness or other pressing matters, maybe more interesting stuff to do. Those would be horrible reasons to let Kerbals die.

But money? Money is good, useful, and will bring progress to your space program. They will understand.

They'd die as heroes, though would the minimal science be worth it (landed a probe with science experiments on the mun) though?

25 minutes ago, FungusForge said:

If you can't scrounge up the Dv for there and back, then if I could still profit, I would make this a multi-launch endeavor. Giving them a boat to come home on would be preferable, especially for the sake of experience. I'd at least do what I could to at least bring back the most valuable (pilot) guy there. If the contract would't profit from a multi-launch then I'd wait until I could manage to bring them home/sustain them.

Right I could just put the vessel in a mun orbit/escape muns SoI if I'm lucky and then let another vessel save him. Going to Minmus with a kerbal will give me 200,000 money so quite a big lump of money. Might even make a Minmus relay system for 100% coverage.

22 minutes ago, RizzoTheRat said:

You'll get a lot more science for them if you can bring them home, or are you planning on landing a lab for them to starve to death in?

I'll ~~try~~ to do everything I can do save the Kerbal's life...

January 19, 2016

27 minutes ago, RizzoTheRat said:

Personally I wouldn't leave them to die. I always plan to bring them back and if something goes wrong will send a rescue mission. I'm not using life support though which I presume makes your craft heavier, and rescue missions too slow. Can you leave some of the life support equipment on the surface and have a lighter stage to get off the mun, or do an Apollo style mission where the majority of the life support equipment stays in orbit?

Or just leave them on the surface with a bag of potatoes and see how they do.

Waiting for a relatively short while (30 days) is no problem with a medium life support container though a perma base is impossible for now until I can recycle things. So I guess that would cancel out an apollo style mission unless I'd have a massive fuel tank thingy in orbit which is no problem for the mun since I have a Mun relay system but Minmus is a different story.

January 19, 2016

11 minutes ago, Rocket In My Pocket said:

Is bringing them back to Kerbin not an option for some reason? Should be pretty easy if your just going to the Mun or Minmus. The DV required to go and get back isn't much more than just going on a one way trip.

But to answer your main question, I would say normally no it isn't since they aren't in any real danger, however since you installed a life support mod it seems like your obviously interested in an element of danger/morality. So in your case yes, it would be immoral.

Also, if it's a one way trip why not just send an unmanned probe?

I am wanting to get some surface samples and I have a contract to plant a flag on minmus. In adition to that I'm not the best pilot, and for a return trip would need to get some more technology.

January 19, 2016

So, I have a little dilemma: I am playing a carreer mode with RemoteTech and TAC Lifesupport, and I am not sure if I should let kerbals go to Mun/Minmus though I wont have enough fuel nor enough life support to make a colony.

Should I let kerbals freeze/starve to death for a big lump of money or should I be "moral"?

January 19, 2016

I see you have no wings, which are ~~kinda~~ very important.

Here's a nice post explaining why it flips (and how to fix it):

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/106190-why-does-my-fliping-rocket-always-flip-over-easy-picture-explanation/

January 19, 2016

B9

KAX

OPT spaceplane parts

SpaceY Heavy lifters (more for rockets)

Nearfuture propulsion

Nearfuture electric

Mark IV spaceplane parts

I'm sure there is something you like in these mods.

January 19, 2016

Also, turn off SAS before docking, though I don't know a lot about docking on the surface I assume it's more or less the same.

January 18, 2016

1 hour ago, Snark said:

If you have lightspeed-delay turned off, then there's never any delay ever.

If you have lightspeed-delay turned on, then there's a signal delay, but it's based only on the total path length-- that is, individual satellites don't have any "rebroadcast" delay. So routing through multiple satellites does tend to increase the delay, but only because it lengthens the path (you're zigzagging to get to the destination, rather than a straight-line path).

At the Mun, signal delay is almost completely unnoticeable, so no problem there. On Minmus, the signal delay is big enough to be noticeable and somewhat annoying, but it's still less than a quarter-second and I've found that landers are quite pilotable with that delay (especially in Minmus' forgiving gravity). The built-in RemoteTech flight computer helps: you can tell it to "hold surface retrograde", and then the only manual piloting you need to do is to adjust the throttle, which works fine on a 200-millisecond delay.

And that's fine, if that's really what you want. The deal with sub-100% coverage is: if you can get 90% coverage in only a small fraction of the time and effort that it takes to get 100% coverage-- and even that remaining 10% is available whenever you want it by just waiting a few minutes-- is it really worth it to go to the trouble of setting up a fully 100% coverage network?

Also: I've noticed that RemoteTech can be prone to crashes, and the crash likelihood goes up significantly as the number of satellite connections in the network increases. I find that if I keep the network simple, I end up enjoying the game more because I'm only getting one crash per day instead of more than one an hour. YMMV, just something to bear in mind.

Yup, pretty much. The only real difference is that the Mun is tidally locked and Minmus isn't, so for 50% of the Mun's surface, you don't need any relay network at all.

For everything out to and including Duna, the Communotron 88-88 will do you just fine. (It works sometimes on Dres, too, but only when Kerbin and Dres are relatively close to each other, so not super reliable there.) This antenna is small and light enough that you can put it on pretty much all of your interplanetary ships (i.e. not just on relay satellites, but on landers too).

Beyond Dres, I like to use the Reflectron GX-128, it'll reach anywhere in the solar system. This one is both bulky and heavy, so you don't want to duplicate it. Typically what I'll do is send one satellite to the target planet (say, Jool, for example) that has one of these on it, and put that satellite in a very big circular polar orbit so that it's almost never occluded by the planet it's orbiting. Then, besides the big dish, it has as many smaller dishes as needed (Communotron 88-88 and/or DTS-M1) to tie in to any local relay networks around the planet, or its moons.

So a Jool-Kerbin network would look like this:

Low-altitude network of Kerbin comsats

One single satellite in high polar circular orbit of Kerbin, with a single Reflectron GX-128 to talk to Jool, and some DTS-M1 to talk to the low network

One single satellite in high polar circular orbit of Jool, with a single Reflectron GX-128 to talk to Kerbin, and some Communotron 88-88 to talk to the low network (the DTS-M1 isn't long-range enough within the Jool system)

Low-altitude networks of comsats around Jool and/or whatever moons I'm interested in, that have small, light, short-range antennas.

I can replace Jool with any other planet right?

And what is considered as a high kerbin orbit?

Also, which satellite can reach every moon of Jool

Thanks!

January 18, 2016

9 minutes ago, RizzoTheRat said:

Ah, I assumed signal delay was standard. I tend to set up manoeuvre nodes and leave it to the RemoteTech autopilot to execute them, which is fine for any tasks except landing, which I've not done with anything unkerballed yet.

I didn't edit the remotetech files yet so everything should be standard. I like to have 100% coverage so I know I can go anywhere anytime.

so going to minmus will basically be the same as the mun satellites (but less messing around: 3 satellites with 1 comm 16 and 1 dts-m1 in a LMO should be good enough to connect with eachother and with Kerbin right?

Also, which satellites should I send up for probes to reach Duna/ outer planets?

January 17, 2016

2 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

Well, your main problem is that there is no link between the Kerbin and Mun constellations. This is because the 3rd DTS on the "Serenity" satellites is set for "active vessel". Which means that if you're flying the lander, "Serenity" will be aimed at it, totally skipping everything in Munar orbit. This will work as long as the lander is on the near side of Mun, but you'll lose contact on the far side. The lander can always talk back to Kerbin but this is of limited value if KSC can't talk to the probe. Your secondary problem is that both "Serenity" and "Day of Night" really would work better if they had 4x DTS antennae each, but you can get by with what you've got. Just remember this for next time.

So as a quick fix to make things work right now would be to go to each "Serenity" and set its 3rd DTS to aim at Mun itself, not a ship. This will put Mun and everything around it inside the antennae's cone and establish a permanent, 2-way link betwene the networks at Kerbin and Mun, and both networks provide links everywhere on the surface so you've got that part covered. The only remaining issue is that then the lander won't be in contact while en route between Kerbin and Mun. This is only an issue if you need to make a mid-course correction or plan on sending back science from space between Kerbin and Mun. You can partially solve this by putting a DTS on the lander and having it coned back at Kerbin, so as to talk directly between KSC and the lander. This will only work, however, if KSC is on the side of Kerbin facing the probe, and can talk most of the way to Mun by itself (a settings and/or tech tree thing IIRC). But if you don't need science en route or need to make a mid-course burn, then you don't need to worry about this.

Now, if "Serenity" and "Day of Night" had 4x DTS antennae each, you'd have no problems. It would work like this:

Serenity:

2 DTS, 1 each aimed at the other Serenity satellites

1 DTS coned at Mun

1 DTS set on active vessel

Day of Night

2 DTS, 1 each aimed at the other Day of Night satellites

1 DTS coned at Kerbin

1 DTS set for active vessel

The mutually facing cones of Serenity and Day of Night would establish a permanent, 2-way link between Mun and Kerbin, and the active vessel antennae would stay on the lander while en route, so the lander could cone its own DTS at either Mun or Kerbin and you'd have constant 2-way communications for the whole trip. Then also have a Comm-16 so the probe can talk back through the Orb of Night while at Mun, and to KSC while in LKO via Solidarity.

Thanks, if I want do land on Minmus I replace the Mun with Minmus right?

Or should I add a new Relay system?

January 17, 2016

13 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

^^

Yes, either should work...

The first, however, seems overly complicated to me... (requires more dishes/parts)... Moer power generation (batteries/RTGs/Solar panels)...Thus larger and more expensive probes, landers, sats, crafts... Which means larger and more expensive launchers...

The second, the way I suggested, and I think what you have as the 2nd option, is less parts, and less complicated...

So, basically, based on your existing relay networks, and your suggestions, I think you are overthinking this and making it more complicated than it needs to be... Its easy for new RT users to fall into the trap, with all the new "shiny" RT parts, and the endless capabilities and possibilities that RT offers...

I stick to the KISS principal in everything...
KISS = Keep It Simple, Stoopid...
So as far as RT goes, I try to keep it "less is more"....

Right, I kind of thought 3 antennas was over kill (and a lot of batteries for a small probe) but didn't want to risk it, thanks.

January 17, 2016

28 minutes ago, Stone Blue said:

Well, I could be wrong, but I imagine if you target KSC, you'll lose comms as Kerbin rotates, and KSC no longer has LoS to the Mun...
Also, by targeting Kerbin, rather than KSC, or specific sats, you also cover when anything goes out of LoS...

Think of targeting JUST KSC or a single, or even a set of sats, as fine tuning, or really close zooming in.... Once that target moves out of LoS, you lose comms...WHereas targeting Kerbin is like a course tuning, or zooming out... That way EVERYTHING around Kerbin, that falls in or out of the dishes cone will connect, so LoS of single targets is no longer an issue...

Though, I guess targeting KSC, will also include whatever falls into the cone, even though KSC is occluded by Kerbin itself...??

I never experimented to find out... I just stick wth the seemingly easiest solution and catch-all, by targeting Kerbin...

So the way I do it now is for example I am between Kerbin and the Mun, and my craft has 3 dishes which target 3 satellites around kerbin (the serenity probes in my case). Each serenity satellite targets a LKO satellite group (solidarity in my case) though there are 4 solidarity probes and 3 Serenity probes the Solidarity will link down one till it reaches the KSC.

So if my craft between the mun and Kerbin targets all 3 serenity probes I will always have connection with the following 'line' connection

Active Vessel -> Serenity 1,2,3 -> Solidarity 1,2,3 -> KSC

-> Serenity 1,2,3 -> Solidarity 1,2,3 -> Solidarity 4 -> KSC

3 antennas on the vessel you want to send to the Mun are needed for a stable connection for this model.

So far I understand what the Kerbin as target (for the dish/antenna) is doing is looking for the nearest satellite (please correct me if I'm wrong).

So the 'line' of connection would look like this:

Active Vessel -> Any available Serenity -> Solidarity 1,2,3 -> KSC

-> Solidarity 4 -> KSC

-> Solidarity if available -> KSC

-> Solidarity 4 -> KSC

January 17, 2016

1 minute ago, Stone Blue said:

1 Comm16, 1 DTS-M1.... Dish targeting Kerbin will work...

Whats the difference of targeting Kerbin vs KSC?

January 17, 2016

So, yet again I've been busy making relay systems around Kerbin and the Mün. This is my current situation:

http://postimg.org/image/ygt4n4vhd/

Inner 4 satellites (Solidarity):

Each have 1 Comm 16 (omni) (for low kerbin orbits)

At 500 km

Outer 3 satellites (Serenity):

Each have 3 DTS-M1 (first dish):

1 pointed towards the next satellite in the link

1 pointed towards the previous satellite in the link

1 pointed to 'Current Vessel'

At 2500 Km

On to the Mün:

http://postimg.org/image/rovbarb0f/

Inner 3 satellites (Orb of the Night):

Each have a Comm 16 (covers to whole surface for landing)

At 300 Km

Outer 2 satellites (Day of Night):

Each have 3 DTS-M1 and 1 Comm 16

1 DTS-M1 comm for every "Serenity" satellite though there is no link back it seems to work fine with connecting all the "Orb of the Night" satellites (is this because of the target on the "Current Vessel" at the "Serenity" satellites?)

1 Comm 16 for the "Orb of the Night" satellites

At 500 Km

So which Comms and how many do I need for an unmanned mission to the Mün? Also where should my dishes be pointed at on my Mün lander?

January 16, 2016

Launched a new relay system with the max error being 20 meters, this should hold up for a couple of years right?

January 14, 2016

31 minutes ago, Snark said:

Yes, they need to be exact.

The only way a synchronized relay system can work is if the satellites have exactly the same period. Any different, and they will gradually drift. 7 kilometers is a huge disparity. You want their Ap and Pe to be within a few meters, not kilometers.

There are a few ways to deal with this:

One approach is to be super-precise about your orbits. Get them as close to exactly precise as you can. Some people accomplish this by using HyperEdit (or just a text editor directly tinkering with the save file) to make the orbits exact. I never do that myself (it feels like "cheating" to me), but I find that as long as I'm using whisper-gentle thrust, like an Ant or Spider with the thrust limiter turned way down, then I can fine-tune an orbit within a few meters. Even that small amount will eventually cause drift, but it's good enough for a few years and that's typically the span of my KSP career anyway.

Another approach (which I actually prefer) is to be deliberately non-precise about orbits. Have satellites in a variety of orbits with significantly different periods from each other. This means that at any point in time, the distribution of satellites around the planet will be essentially random. As long as you have enough satellites, then you're very unlikely to have a gap in your coverage; and although it's technically possible, even if it happens, the outage will be very brief and not repeated again soon. (As opposed to an attempted-synchronous formation that's not-quite-right, since when that drifts into a gap situation, it stays that way for a long time.)

It's true that in this random-scattered approach, you need more satellites. A well-set-up synchronous formation can get by with just 3 or 4 satellites, whereas a random-scattered setup may need twice as many. But I don't see that as much of a disadvantage, myself. First, a minimal comsat is really cheap. If all you need in orbit is a Communotron-16 with a couple of OX-STAT panels, OKTO core, Oscar tank, and an Ant, you can put that up in orbit quickly, easily, and dirt cheap.

So that approach is my personal favorite. Yes, it takes (very little) more cash, and a few more (very quick and easy) launches... but that's more than made up for by the advantages: much less hassle, much less finicky tinkering with orbits, and low chance of critical failure.

By all means set up a synchronous network if you like-- it can be a fun challenge in its own right, and it certainly looks really cool once you've got it set up. Just be aware that it's not the only option.

Ah, the Remote Tech master has returned once again. Anyways, Makes sense that it'd mess up my system, guess I'll need to send a brave kerbal up again...

Also, what are some tips to get an unmanned craft to the mun/minmus with constant connection? (As in which antennas and at which height should I place the new relay system).

January 14, 2016

So a few days ago I made my first LKO relay system, did some missions and a bit of timewarp and discovered that my 4 evenly spaced communication probes where all on one side of the planet... The Ap of all satellites is 500 km but the Pe (500 as well) can have 7 km changes. Do all the orbits need to be exactly the same for a relay system or is this just an exception?

January 13, 2016

3 hours ago, rocketbuilder said:

Have you tried this?

No, though deleting SA did work

January 13, 2016

7 hours ago, Alshain said:

I don't believe this is ScienceAlert, it's just a RT bug that Peppie hasn't fixed but there is a community dll.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/75245-105-remotetech-v169-2015-11-10/&page=154#comment-2324100

Hmm that didn't work, I'll delete a bunch of mods I guess.

January 12, 2016

I have some, I'll post them soonish.

January 12, 2016

23 minutes ago, Snark said:

If you're running RemoteTech, and you have science, and you try to transmit it, one of two things should happen:

If everything's good (i.e. you have power, and control of the ship, and a comm link back to KSC), then it should transmit the science.

If there's a problem (i.e. one of the above criteria not met), then it should display an error message explaining that you don't have comms, or something.

It should never be the case that simply "nothing happens." No idea what's going on, unless there's some sort of interaction with another mod that's causing problems.

Do you mean to say that if you do the following:

Make a simple ship with a probe core, decent-sized battery, active DP-10 antenna, and a goo unit

Launch it

Collect science with the goo unit (successfully)

When the science dialog comes up, you click the blue "transmit" button

...that nothing happens? At all? Not even an error message?

it made the module inoperable but nothing else.

I have the following mods:

Chatterer

OrbitalScience

Kerbal Engineer

Mechjeb2

Near future

Final frontier

Precise Nodes

Procedural Fairings and Parts

Quicksearch

Realchute

Remote Tech

SCANsat

ScienceAlert

SpaceY- lifters

Stationpart expansion

Station Science

TarsierSpace tech

TAC life support

Kerbal Alarm clock

Tweakscale

January 12, 2016

Ok, so I am still new to RT and I just set up my first relay system of 4 satellites at 500 km but now I have the issue that whenever I have a science experiment and I try to send it nothing happens. Although I do have connection with 3 comms (DP-10, Com-16 and Com D-T). Doesn't even work on the launchpad... is this a glitch or is there a solution for this?

January 10, 2016

RIP Jeb... oh well now I have a nice relay system... (Jeb died due to a faulty decoupler not separating the right stuff)

All at 500 km altitude.

January 10, 2016

1 hour ago, Alshain said:

That web planner helps you with that too. Enter your relevant data (Kerbin, 500km, etc) then scroll down to where it says "Multiple Launch View". Now, I find that a bit confusing but it means multiple satellites on one launch, not multiple launches. What it tells you there is both a Pe (i.e. Lower Period) and an Ap (i.e. Higher Period) which will set your launch vehicle up to get relatively accurate separation in one orbit. You can use either one, so one point will be 500km, and the other point will be Higher (852.874km) or Lower Period (116.06km). This makes it easy, release a satellite, circularize it, wait for the vehicle to go around, repeat 3 more times.

Ah I thought you needed to use both the Pe and Ap, thanks for clearing things up. Also handy that there are delta v stats showing how much delta v is needed for lowering and making it a higher orbit.

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