Jumba83

I never said you actually used foul language, I said that you used something close to it. You even went so far as to direct people to find it on their own. I also notice that you didn't answer my question as to whether or not you thought I was being rude. Have you ever heard the expression "the squeaky wheel gets the grease"? I do not intend to sit idly by in the hopes that someone might eventually solve my problems. I also have/had no intention of causing any harm or punishment towards SQUAD or any of their employees. I think they have made a fantastic game, and I look forward to being able to experience it on the PS4. They did, however, get themselves into this mess, and have given us very little transparency into what they are doing to make things right.

Perhaps it wasn't the best analogy on my part, but in no was was I attempting to be deceptive as the strawman term implies. Now you're the one putting words into my mouth. I never once even attempted to make the argument that being rude is a good thing. Do you consider any of my statements to have been rude towards anyone? As far as I know, I have not been insulting towards anyone. At no point have I used anything even close to foul language, as you now have. Simply disagreeing with someone is not rude. Arguing a point with someone is not rude. Venting frustrations is not rude. I called out a SQUAD staff member for making a flippant remark because in my opinion it was indeed a flippant remark regardless of its original intentions. Is it rude to point out how someone else's statements might be considered offensive? My statement was that people have every justification for being as rude as they want to be, not that they should actively do so. I wasn't around in the early days of KSP, so I never got to experience the forum in the way you describe it. I came here after the game was released on consoles, so that I could get more information on how progress was coming along on a fix for the many issues in the console release. All that I have ever heard from the developers is some form of "we are working on it." When boiled down to their essence, virtually all of their posts say this and nothing more. I'm not in a situation where I am overly concerned with the prospect that making my frustrations known to these developers will somehow discourage them from any future interaction, considering how little they currently interact. Like most other console users here, we can't lose what we don't have in the first place.

I did not bring the words "rude" and "common sense" into this discussion, you did, in response to my post. If your intention was not to imply that I was being rude, then perhaps you shouldn't have quoted my earlier post. Besides, you have made several references to this supposed strawman that I am building, therefore implying that I am somehow being deceptive or attempting to misrepresent the situation. How have I done so? I have only attempted to convey my impression of this situation. You did, in fact, say that users should refrain from being rude to the developers. That whole section that you quoted was an attempt to tell you exactly why, in my opinion, the users who purchased the console version of this game have every justification for being as rude as they want to be. It is not a simple "fact" that SQUAD will ever deliver any updates to the console version once they finally deliver 1.2. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I have never seen a statement as such. My disagreement is with your assessment that this is inevitably the case. Updating past 1.2 will mean that they will again have to contract the work out to a developer like Blitworks. This will be a significant expenditure for them, meaning that they will either have to eat the cost or charge for the update, which is not something they have ever done in the past. It would be far less involved for them to simply get 1.2 out the door and then forget about console updates altogether. Honestly, I want a game, not a date. Right now, I'd want even a broken, buggy game that I knew was still under development. I have very little faith in the SQUAD QA process, they have already failed on multiple occasions. First with the console port in general, then again with the Xbox update that didn't solve anything. I would love to be able to play the game and see the progress for myself, even if it is still in the pre-alpha stage, and then be able to give them feedback. The reason for this is that I fully expect SQUAD to wipe their hands clean of this whole situation as soon as Blitworks makes their final delivery. Right now, I'd imagine there to be only a handful of people actually doing the playtesting on the new version. I'd hope that they'll be able to find all of the major game breaking bugs (not that there's any past proof of them being able to do so) and will get them corrected by the time of the release. Then, once thousands of people start playing it, do you really expect that they won't find any additional issues at all? Keeping the latest version behind closed doors prevents these issues from being discovered when they'd be the easiest to fix.

You are correct in that I have bought nothing from you. I have, however, bought something from those whom you actively represent. From my perspective, I have been anything but rude. I have simply conveyed my expectations as a console user. Is it your perspective that asking for what was originally promised is considered rude? When I bought this game on the Playstation Network over a year ago, I expected it to work. Needless to say, it didn't. Your implication is that I don't possess common sense. Do you not believe that users who pay full retail price for a game should expect a game that is actually playable? Common sense dictates that when someone pays for a game, they get that game, not a vague promise that they might get that game someday. Is it somehow my fault that this game is broken? SQUAD did not give me this game out of the kindness of their hearts, I bought it from them with my own hard earned money. Since then, they have treated that purchase with utter disdain (over a year with no updates to an unplayable game). Why should I treat them with anything else? The onus is on them to make this right, not me. Respectfully, I disagree. The majority of the information contained in the weeklies concerns new development towards the future. Console users are waiting for patch 1.2, something that is already well past done on the PC edition. So far, we have received absolutely no indication that future development will ever make its way onto the console release. There is no greater indication of this than the fact that we still haven't even gotten a working version in the first place. It's been over a year, and they still haven't been able to provide us a stable, working game. So far, it appears that all their effort is directed towards giving us something that actually works at long last. Why should we be looking at anything past that? And, even if we were, why should we expect that such updates will be available at any point in the near future given their past history on console updates?

Thank you for giving a thoughtful and reasoned response, it is much appreciated. At no point did it ever occur to me that @technicalfool was being deliberately condescending. As far as I was concerned, it was simply an apparent extension of SQUAD's overall inconsideration towards console users in general. I'll let you be the judge as to which is the better conclusion to which to jump. Are you really suggesting that the consumers of this product need to be considerate of the feelings of the producers? If I went to the grocery store and found that their entire produce section was rotten and full of mold, should I feel obliged to buy some anyways just to make sure that I didn't offend the employees? I bought a game from you that didn't work, why is it that you feel that I need to kowtow to your sensitivities in order to get what I paid for in the first place? Thank you for providing actual, concrete information. Though you can't blame console users if they don't regularly pour over the details contained in the weekly updates considering how biased they are towards PC information. Just an FYI, at this point, don't assume that anyone who has currently owned and played the console version of the game has experienced anything close to what KSP can offer. I have played the PC version, and it is amazing, which is why everything surrounding this console port has me so upset. Saying to a console use that they have experienced version 1.1 is an outright fabrication. All that you have given us console users to this point is a pre-alpha experience. In other words, nothing works, and things will be made better in the future.

I'd just like to point out that one of these responses was from SQUAD staff and the other from an unpaid, volunteer Moderator. The moderator's response was as informative as it possibly could be given the circumstances. The SQUAD staff's response was flippant and patronizing. It boggles my mind that anyone at SQUAD could possibly continue to be so incredibly dismissive of any of their console user base. As a console user looking to enjoy a game made my PC developers, I never expected to have a flawless gaming experience with KSP on the PS4. It came as no surprise when I started playing it and I found that the controls were simply terrible. But, after enough practice, they were functional enough to get the job done. And when my save file was corrupted once after a couple days of playing, I was upset but chalked it up to an unfortunate experience. Then it happened again, and again, and again. So often, that I would find myself losing all of my save games after only a couple hours of starting anew. It took long enough for SQUAD to even acknowledge that there was a problem, despite the fact that was obvious from the start. Since that point, I personally have never felt that SQUAD was even the least bit concerned with all of the people, like myself, who had paid good money for their broken and unplayable game. The only people who actually seemed to care have been the moderators. From my perspective, they have been empathetic and compassionate, even when they themselves were under attack for not being able to share more information than they possessed. They have kept this forum a relatively civil place to air frustrations and complaints, which is not an easy thing to do. All this while the actual SQUAD employees were seeming doing their best to incite anger and frustration amongst their console user base. At this point, I honestly can't believe that any SQUAD employees have any understanding of the concept of shame. Any interaction with any of their console users, either present or potential, should show at least some contrition. Instead, we get condescending remarks. </rant>

I never said that I was actively pursuing a refund. I was stating that they are not offering one as they should. In addition, seeing that I bought the game on the Playstation Network, I doubt that Microsoft would be terribly sympathetic towards my plea for a refund.

I respect your opinion and position, but if you truly want to be done with this conversation you can simply stop participating. You have made some statements and claims that some people find it difficult with which to agree, so you can hardly be surprised that people will interested in voicing their own opinions. For instance, you suggest that console owners should simply go out and buy the PC version to play the game while the console versions are being fixed. After having spent $40 to buy a broken game, from a company that isn't offering refunds, why would I go out and give another $40 to the same company to get something that actually works? I bought the console version simply because I prefer playing on the console over playing on my PC. The crux of this issue, however, is the lack of updates on progress for a fix. You claim that you are sure they are working on it, but what evidence do you have that demonstrates this? All Squad is telling us is that they are working on it, there is no mention whatsoever of specifics. If my boss told me that one of my projects was broken and unusable and that I needed to fix it, how long would I be able to get away with saying "don't worry, I'm working on it" before he would start asking for more details? A week? Maybe two? If I kept it up for nearly four months, I'm fairly certain that it wouldn't fly. Why, then, should Squad be able to get away with it? If your response is that the responsibility really lies with FTE, then I must disagree. FTE has clearly shown themselves to be unequal to the challenge of porting this game. Squad, however, has done nothing to rectify the situation.

I disagree with the concept of releasing anything before a final fix is achieved. Right now, I lose several hours worth of progress whenever my save data corrupts, which is by no means acceptable. However, I don't want to be in a position where I will instead lose several days or even weeks of progress to the same issue. If and when I begin the game all over again (for about the tenth time), I want to be certain that I won't have to go back and restart unless I choose to do so. In my own humble opinion, I would say that the console port for this game is one of the worst that I have ever seen. If my five year old PC (admittedly the video card was updated about three years ago) can handle the launch of a 250 part rocket at 60 fps, a PS4 should be able to accomplish at least close to the same. At the moment, I get maybe 10 fps, which goes down to about 2 fps if there are any flame effects. My guess is that they don't want to bring in a third party to help with the save issue because they are too embarrassed about the quality of their console code, and don't want anyone else to look at it.