ethambutol

I have been away from KSP for so long... Time to reconstruct the mod bank...

Wow, it has been a while and all the new things. Must restart KSP...

Whaaa?! All four mods are completely seperate. If you don't install USI or EL, it will just be KBPS using TAC-LS. Because that is the combo I use. Just to ask, HOW MANY people install multiple LS mods together?

Okay, because this is verging on TL;DR from the last few pages, so I'm just going to ask and confirm: With the current version of TACLS, you do not get the advertised input/out and even with an engineer, you get an improvement but still not 100% of the advertised input/output. Am I right? Because the values (+/-) are not tallying with the theoretic values my combined TACLS+KPBS spreadsheet are saying, ie, I am getting much less than I expect. All values in the spreadsheet were directly ripped out of the .cfg files and they match. Things tallied until the latest TACLS update where the specialist bonus thingy was tweak. -More edits- Commented out all the specialist lines gives the stated values. My 2 cents: Without specialist you should get 100% of the stated value. Add specialists, get your bonus.

@Nils277 @DavefromNZ I believe your problem lies in the MFT config in PBI/ModSupport/Configs/MFT/[longbloodyname].cfg file. In the file, the volume for that part is specified to be 1000, thus your 450/550 values. If MFT is not installed, it defaults to the container cfg (90/110) in the more intutitive place. This applies to *all* the containers that are influenced by MFT. @DavefromNZ That would explain why the problem goes away as if KPBS doesn't detect the mod, it won't use the Modsupport config values.

Yes. It all has to do with terrain clipping and the CoM for the base. You need to build on a pretty flat piece of terrain and watch where the weight distribution goes. Watch slowly in an incorrectly weight distributed base as slowly the modules vibrate, first gently, the more vigorously, then finally intensely and pieces get flung off and explode! (without KJR) or stay intact as the parts of your base furiously beat harder and harder against the surface of the planet/moon until they explode one by one (or together) until your base goes flying higher and higher above the ground, all the while with bits exploding (with KJR). Yours truly, Survivor of many base Krakenings.

@Nils277 From the new values, it looks okay for a space station of 15 kerbals in theory using a combination of TAC/KPBS modules. Food is no longer an issue and the whole ecosystem just requires an occasional water or oxygen topup to keep the kerbals alive indefinately. That is until the TAC-LS people decide to screw around with their values. Will confirm later ingame if there are any "accidents" in the cfgs. -Addendum- So far looking good in game.

Time for the spreadsheets and monkeywrenching once more! Tonight!

@ArkaelDren Redownload again. It is there in the curseforge zip. The model is in the utility directory. The config is in /modsupport/configs/lifesupport with that exact file name. The first item inside that .cfg is the greenhouse. There should be altogether 6 files supporting the various LS in that directory. KPBS_MM_ECLSS.cfg KPBS_MM_IFI_LIFE_SUPPORT.cfg KPBS_MM_IONCROSS_CREW_SUPPORT.cfg KPBS_MM_Snacks.cfg KPBS_MM_TAC_LS.cfg KPBS_MM_USI_LS.cfg

Because it's not intuitively where its supposed to be. --> PBI/modsupport/configs/Lifesupport/KPBS_MM_TAC_LS.cfg

@Nils277 The old TAC-LS values (prior to the latest TAC update where they reverted to the multipler) show the same discrepancies. I'm using the most recent TAC figures directly ripped out from the .cfgs. I do understand that balancing things is not an easy task. The way I see it is that TAC only has to deal with H2O and O2. You on the other hand have to find a way to make food. I was previously using except that 1.2 broke it For me, I would lean towards using the waste products for food generation with water as the main input to a otherwise almost closed cycle (as in real life), as long as you can find water, you can generate water and oxygen. Food has always been the most difficult resource to accomodate IMHO. As for the old resources, there is nothing much you can do about it once it's written into the savefile. For not-so-quick-but-still-fastest and dirty way, people have to find and then edit the file. For the massively-slower-but-cleaner way, people have to use KAS/KIS to replace the module. For the ultimate masochist but easiest way: build and send up a replacement craft/module to affix.

If you load it from a save, it will remain there unless you edit it out of the ship. Same thing happened when you changed organics to fertilizer. Also noted that the spreadsheet values for greenhouse(small) CO2, O2 and Food are offset one up. CO2 is missing and O2 went to CO2, Food to O2 and now food is 0. -- uh oh -- Addendum Your fiddling around with your conversion figures has created a *weee* problem with TAC-LS compatibility... Using the default TAC recyclers in conjunction with KPBS' creates a problem with the net inputs/outputs. In particular, KPBS water purifiers generates a lot more waste (more efficient waste generators as opposed to more efficient purifiers? ) than any of the TAC defaults. (0.4 waste per unit waste water vs 0.14 waste per unit waste water) TAC has a waste generator - the water splitter - but the waste it generates is miniscule compared to the greenhouse requirements. Previously there was a workaround in the algae farms that produced CO2 which then fed the Sabatier/Carbon extractors to generate the waste. Waste water is a poor generator of waste as the only source of waste water are the kerbals. For CO2, Kerbals are not the only source as atmospheres can be a secondary source (and previously the algae farms) but imho transporting CO2 just to extract waste is kinda... wasteful... The Carbon Extractors/Sabatiers don't show that much of a large discrepancy but it means transporting CO2... My 2 cents.

The answer to both 1 and 2 is whatever that takes less complexity.

Keep it simple.

Best option. Vent poo into space. That is why you have us guinea pig testers.

BTW, the central Mk3 science/habitat/recycling module (you know that big thingyamajiggy) rates have not been changed. I take it that it is okay? Just in case you forgot about that module as it's not listed on the spreadsheet.

*Goes digging in spreadsheets again* Minor typos in spreadsheet. Planets not Planes (of existences) Water drill still has "waste water" in the rates spreadsheet. Everything looks okay from a quick gander. Waste is now produced in hideous amounts that needs to be vented but that is okay. The key resource is now water. As long as you can supply water to the base/station, it will be selfsufficient. Reserve all waste water for food production, recycle some if needed, but you still have to input H2O.

On Mun, there is no air and therefore no one can hear you scream.

On TACLS, noted a discrepancy. Inline water drill produces water. Lots of it. Your spreadsheets all say 'waste water' unless I am seeing a different water drill. Would not have noticed it I wasn't searching for devices that generate plenty of waste. The lack of CO2 generation apart from kerbals has made things tricker since I want to reserve all the CO2 for food and try not to use the carbon/sabatier extractors as much as possible. Hence the search for waste. Then ship the food to orbit. Also, personally, I prefered the TACLS fuel cell to use H2 + O2 rather than LF+OX. It provides an alternative way to generate power at night. Then again, using the Karbonite mod makes things a lot easier as you can generate O2 + H2O from Karbonite.

yay. Time to refix the spacestation and munar base. >_>

@Nils277 I think I noticed an error in the K&K Container Greenhouse TAC-LS production rates as the production rates does not tally with my spreadsheet values. You are missing a zero. K&K Greenhouse (1.3.1) - Output resource Food is 0.0003441840277699824 K&K Greenhouse (1.x.x) - Output resource Food is 0.00003441840277699824 (the old figure in the spreadsheet derived from multipling some figures) K&K Planetary (1.3.1) - Greenhouse production rate is 0.000103255208331 Pulled straight from the .cfg files (Container_Greenhouse and KPBS_MM_TAC_LS) so unless it's intentionally that the tiny greenhouse produces more than the big greenhouse (doubt it as you are getting more food out from less inputs - MAGIC!), there is a missing 0. For me it is an easy correction to make in the file: add 0

Ah cool. Noted the fixes in 1.3.0's changelog. Probably still running 1.1.6 / mishmash 1.3.0 - the result of chuck and overwrite old mods for so many, many mods... Following your advice, from some quick testing, it now all appears to work as intended. Will watch if anything else is broken as I go along. Thanks. And now for the messy part: updating doing housekeeping the Kerbal Space Station and the Munar Base from KSP 1.1.3 to 1.2... Spent too long building them just to discard. PS you know you have a problem when you spreadsheet the figures just to calculate exactly how many modules you need to support your Kerbals.

Great Mod but I have one (well two in one) questions. With TAClifesupport, has the K&K Elektron container ever worked? Prior to KSP 1.2, it has never split the water into hydrogen and oxygen. The fuel cell works fine but due to limited hydrogen, it doesn't work for long and at the time there was no hydrogen container. Thus, the need to split the water with the Elektron but it has not worked for me. With 1.2, there is no input/outputs seen in the VAB, (usually there is the consumption and output rates), but in the next to latest version of KPBS (1.3.0) it remains blank. The same issue with the Carbon extractor container. I usually use it in conjunction with the Karbonite mod (to get the water) and a ton of other mods, but in this case, I have stripped it down to KPBS and TAC-LS and it still doesn't work. Going through the KPBS lifesupport .cfg files, it seems that TAC-LS is supposed to be supported for the Elektron and Carbon extractor. Addendum: K&K Greenhouse is also not working. Using TAC-LS. Worked fine in KSP 1.1.3. Noted that the oxygen consumption did not match the Excel spreadsheet theoretical values. Addendum2: Comparing with what is working (planetary greenhouse and mk3 command module/centre), it looks like the input/output resource formats have changed and the TAC (possibly others) format for the inputs/outputs have not been updated. Regards.