dvader

I finished a "caveman extended" run. After finishing ordinary caveman, I upgraded the science center once, finished all the available science nodes, upgraded again, finished all nodes. I can post a full story if anyone is interested. I'm not sure what I think of it. I started by sending an MPL to Minmus without thinking too much about it. When in place I remembered/realised both how overpowered the MPL is and how annoying it is to maintain. Waiting 100 days for each 500 science just isn't fun and you could easily finish the entire tech tree with just enough grind (and with about 30k science to spare). So, instead, I decided to send a probe to Eve using the MPL to unlock any tech I needed. The non-upgraded tracking station wasn't a problem since I could just send a couple of 100G relay antennas into high eccentric polar orbit. In short, it was kind of fun but also nothing really new. I don't think I would do it on a higher tier because of all the funding grind that would be required just to upgrade the R&D center. I don't think I'd mind the science grind that much since it forces you to go to new places which is the fun part. A couple of pictures. The lawn assembled MPL. I had to try 5-10 times because of docking ports that would not undock. Any ideas why? It worked at last, but I don't know why (and there are still some error messages whenever I switch to the MPL). My nicely planned Eve return craft, which couldn't return as planned because the Kraken decided I could not detach the parachute (it was between the crafts). So, I had to land the whole thing instead. The explosions have improved a lot since earlier version. @BlaarkiesI just updated to 1.12.2 (europe).

Steam reloaded 161 files that failed the verification but unfortunately that didn't solve the problem. I might try a full reinstall later. I finished the caveman moderate attempt. Full story here: https://imgur.com/a/9bn6pAm Highlights: I tried flying with Bob on a ladder which was just fine. But I had forgot how bad I am at landing so I ended up dumping Bob in the ocean and landing the Kerbal way with a parachute. I also sent Bob to space to try out the new EVA science experiment. I really like the new animations. I wish they would add more of them... Then I sent Bob toward Minmus. The new Kerbin textures are really nice. I am so glad Squad decided to give the game some extra polish before KSP 2. It did not go as planned. I had forgotten to bring an antenna so it turned into a rescue mission instead. Here's ghosting in action. I was lucky though and Bob hit Minmus SoI and I could use his jetpack to get into orbit. Rendezvous with the rescue ship was annoying since I could not get a read out of Bobs Ap/Pe and had to manually check by orbiting once. But, eventually I could do EVA science experiments around and on Minmus. The ground based experiments failed though since I had only brought one solar panel... When I sent the science back I got 1371.1 science and finished the tech tree. But, Bob was still stuck on Minmus with not enough solar panels so I sent a bonus just to get the ground based experiments working. That would be interesting. What if you can only upgrade the Science Center but nothing else? Maybe you also have to research every available tech before upgrading the science center. This way you finish plain caveman first. I might try that in Moderate. In NCD it would be very... interesting...

I finished my new caveman run by sending Bob to Minmus and noticed a couple of things. Ap/Pe is not visible for Kerbals floating in space. Only crafts. This makes rendezvous by computing the orbital period very annoying since you have to manually determine Ap/Pe/orbital period for the Kerbal by going around the orbit once and checking min/max altitude... If anyone could figure out a better way to determine Ap/Pe, please let me know. I probably have to take back my opinion about refueling jetpack. If you want to deploy surface experiments, you need to remove the jetpack and put it in the ship while deploying experiments. This refuels the jetpack... so it can't always be avoided. You could perhaps keep track of fuel levels manually but it is easy to forget and it would be annoying (I didn't realise it had been refuelled until I pulled it out again). The built in Alarm Clock can be used for quick switching between crafts. Just add a manual alarm. This was a great improvement

I just noticed that yesterday! I thought it was just me, perhaps a bug or a mod that had not uninstalled cleanly. It is a bit strange to remove the markers since the Ap/Pe info is still available in the new "Orbit info" window in the bottom left. It just makes things more annoying. The information is still there but I can't use the map or the tracking station to see it. It won't make rendezvous harder but definitively much more annoying because of the extra switching to first tracking station and then the target craft just to get the orbit info (and then back). It is also a bit annoying not to visually see when I get close to Ap but instead being forced to compare the Ap number in the bottom left with the altitude meter. (I just started a moderate caveman to try out the new science stuff and other changes. The ground based science could make EVA trips and ladder rides a lot more valuable and perhaps be a big deal for NCD)

It is good to be back . I'm trying to find some reason to visit and admire all the revamped planets but I'm also looking for a reason to use all the new stuff like ground based science or non-Kerbin assembly. About ladders. At least in previous versions, physics warp worked as usual. Most often it worked fine but sometimes you'd get oscillations or perhaps you'd bounce into something and get thrown off. Regular warp is tricky since you start to drift but there is no collision detection so you may ghost through your craft. If that happens and you stop the warp you could either vanish or get thrown away at incredible speed. You could make sure to always drift away from the craft by getting off the ladder in the right direction. You also had to take into account how the orbit changed when dropping the ladder, at least for interplanetary trips with year long warps. I *think* I chose to drop the ladder in the normal or radial directions to minimize the change to the orbital period but I can't remember the details anymore.

It should be allowed since you can actually buy extra jet packs. So, if you bring 2 extra jet packs, you can refill twice (or if you send a resupply mission etc). Both the stowable jetpack and the EVA fuel cylinders make the automatic refill seem like an accidental oversight. But, maybe they left it in by choice since removing it might break a lot of old save games.

I'm very late to the challenge but here's a stock craft for only 690 pesos. The fuel flow priority is higher in the lower tanks to give some stability during ascent. It requires a bit steeper ascent to get out of the thick atmosphere before the tanks get too empty and the center of mass shifts toward the back causing it to tip over. I noticed you can actually use SAS in the sandbox even though the Stayputnik should not provide it. I chose not to use it since it felt like cheating. I kept the engine running at a minimum during coasting to keep it controllable. There's 200 m/s left with Pe 91km and Ap 427 km.

Refueling the jetpack that way should probably not be allowed in my humble opinion. It would allow for infinite fuel exploits by just pushing your space craft with the jet pack. It could also be used/abused for visiting all biomes at no cost of any planet/moon where you can land and take off on less than 600 m/s. Landing on a moon by jetpack alone is of course awesome and encouraged but it should not be for free.

I just logged in hoping to find a good reason to play KSP again and noticed this ladder discussion. In short, yes. Whatever is easier for new players should be the default. In my general Settings, "Kerbals stop at end of ladder" was on by default so I think it should be allowed. Also, it doesn't seem to make any practical difference. As a ladder riding aficionado I so far like the changes even if the Kerbals hand strength seem very overpowered. I tested if the "Kerbals stop at ladder" switch made any difference and it really doesn't (in atmosphere). I tried sending two rockets straight up with a Kerbal on a ladder and the switch on/off. They both reached about the same speed before falling off (about 113 m/s, no physical stop below the ladder). The left image is without "stop at ladder" switch, the right is with. I also tried a horizontal ladder since I found it superior in the community caveman Laythe space plane mission thing. Again, there was no difference with the switch on or off so the "holding power" of the Kerbal is unchanged. It still is way superior to a vertical ladder though. The Kerbal can endure almost 324 m/s before falling off! I don't know if this is any different from previous versions but it seems like a lot. Then I tried a vertical ladder with a physical stop (solar panel) beneath the Kerbals feet. It was kind of silly. As long as the rocket could keep straight (the drag from the Kerbal pulls the rocket to the side), the Kerbal held on up to about 1210 m/s when she disintegrated from the heat... This must be different from previous versions... I also tried the caveman Laythe space plane again and it was a much smoother ride than I remembered. The Kerbal wasn't sliding right-left as quickly as I remembered so it was a lot easier to control. There was still some sliding but it was very slow and therefore a lot easier to control by tilting left or right. Ladder riding has always been at the mercy of the behaviour of the current implementation and managing wierd effects has been a big but not necessarily fun part. If there are fewer ghost forces and weird behaviour to combat, that's a good thing. Sure, the superkerbal hand strength isn't very realistic but riding a ladder to or in space never was... I see no reason not to embrace the changes.

A couple of questions: There are no points for uncrewed landings ? (I don't mind, just asking) Do uncrewed ships have to return to Kerbin? What if I just shoot a probe core past Jool/Eeloo never to be seen again? The "Cross orbit" points, is that just for crossing the orbit or does it require a flyby (please, say flyby )?

I agree. It was both more fun and harder than expected. Getting "moar boosters" for those chubby but powerful launches was fun challenge. The buggy SoI things were annoying but you just have to bring some extra fuel to handle all those unforeseen circumstances. @ralanboyle I noticed you managed to actually use the maneuver node planning thing several times to get intercepts (but not always). Did you notice some pattern to when it works or when it doesn't? I just gave up and ignored them.

Sorry, I forgot about the number of launches. I checked the save file and there were 16 launches. I launched a couple of rockets multiple times without changing the name. The highest launchID is 16 anyway.

And I'm done! Final part 4 here: https://imgur.com/a/16kycmk There was quite a bit of mission creep during planning. I had a sufficient trip planned to Eves upper atmo and Gilly but then the science department said it was such a shame not to land on Eve and get measurements from the surface. So, I designed a simple Eve drop down lander. But then the marketing department said it would be sooo much better publicity if we could fly around a bit instead. So, I made a small plane. But then engineering said it would be really great if we could use those new electric engines and show that propellers can be used in space... So, in the end I built an electric Eve science plane. I was investigating a VTOL but decided the line had to be drawn somewhere. Eve was surprisingly easy to fly around, even in 2G. I had to redo the whole landing and about 1h worth of flying when I realised I had not switched on 2G yet but that wasn't Eves fault... Flying on Eve wasn't really necessary but it was fun. When finishing the tech tree, I had about 5000 science left which was about as much as I got from Eve (I think). There was a rather nasty bug/side effect when returning to Kerbin. I didn't enter the SoI "normally" but the trajectory was pointing straight out and I was way past periapsis, exiting twice and reentering the SoI again. Fortunately I had enough fuel to burn so the next time I hit the SoI I just spent 2000 dV to get into orbit. Flying on Eve here.

Jool and flyby of all moons is finished. I wasn't careful enough when setting up the Jool capture so getting into orbit cost a lot more than expected. I *may* have benefited from some 1G versus 2G weirdness during Laythe intercept. As can be seen from the at about 08:00, it was rather close to periapsis and I *think* the orbital energy should not have changed as much as it did. A quick and rough calculation suggests it changed the orbit by about 1500 dV which just seems a bit much but I am not sure. There was also another weird event when the orbit suddenly changed when the ship was close to another moon and about to touch the SoI (but no indication that it did). I had a very small fuel margin for the return to Kerbin and was a bit sloppy with the setup the first time. After redoing it with a lot more care, it worked well. The trip gave 7000 science which wasn't enough to finish the tech tree so Eve is next. Here's some pictures: https://imgur.com/a/sdZVfkA And a video! 06:28 Jool Atmosphere 08:13 Laythe Flyby 10:30 Vall Flyby 13:20 Tylo Flyby 18:22 Bop Flyby 21:40 Pol Landing 29:00 Return to Kerbin

Here's part two. Mostly going to Minmus and then testing a big Jool rocket. https://imgur.com/a/jjnTVmh This rocket took a test run to Minmus. I don't want any surprises when going to Jool. Who needs 5m parts? With a big heat shield and a small return craft, I can survive reentry speeds of about 7 km/s. That should be enough for Jool (I hope). The Jool trip is coming soon (I just have to get a better Kerbin encounter...)

I just picked a couple of personal "goals" and collected science along the way. The only annoying thing was a tiny bit of contract mining to get enough cash to do it. I just went for Jool moon flybys which was a bit painful but also fun. It's like being a newbie again when all the rough estimates of how much maneuvers should cost are wrong. I'm currently trying to get a return to Kerbin intercept but I only have 300 m/s left so it has to be very good and slingshots won't do because of the 2g messing up maneuver node planning. That's an interesting bonus goal. What's the worst/best abuse of 2g you can find? I will give it some thought but it isn't really obvious to me right now. Slingshots are problematic anyway since you can't plan them. It's like playing in caveman mode without maneuver nodes.

Oh, that explains it! That was exactly the issue I had when trying to leave the Mun. I had to go much faster than expected to leave the SoI or I would just "jump back" after a few seconds.

Yes, I think the planets are "on rails" and not affected by the gravity change. I managed to get a Minmus encounter by using standard 1G Minmus orbital period but calculating my ships orbital period with 2G (using the caveman miss-and-hit method of first missing minmus and then adjusting the orbit to hit Minmus the next time). I haven't tried interplanetary yet but guess the same is true there. An interesting experiment would be to match the Muns orbit perfectly and then just watch what happens. I think your protractor version for hitting Eve should have worked. Eve is very hard to hit though since the SoI is rather small. How far off was it? I'm off to landing on Minmus now so I should get another opportunity to confirm my theory.

@EveMaster The main concern was falling off the ladder during descent. Heat is a concern as well of course but the Kerbal is a bit shielded behind the craft and could perhaps be well protected if you design for it (or use propulsive braking). Not falling off was harder though. If he falls off, it gets really difficult to manage the plane and the Kerbal (and the Kraken) simultaneously. Landing separately just seemed like a simpler solution. That would certainly take the Caveman challenge to a new and utterly ridiculous level It would be awesome! Please do it.

This was both harder and more fun than expected. You need a lot more power to get off the surface and the rockets get really tall and wobbly at first. I've only started but I've got a Mun orbit (with return) and a Mun landing (no return) so far. I can confirm the patched conics are unreliable. Sometimes it seems to be alright but sometimes it is way off and "jumpy". For example, after my first Mun orbit, I had trouble leaving the Mun. A couple of seconds after I left the Muns SoI, it suddenly switched back and I was in Mun orbit again. Here's my progress so far. I think this will take a while to finish: https://imgur.com/a/uRdcIrr Returning from the Mun is about as hard as returning from Jool with normal settings. The good news is that the explosions look much nicer than they used to (It's just materials bays...) (I'm using plain normal settings with no extra funds etc)

Here are my contributions: 2xFOXTROT Launches https://imgur.com/a/NfgvDOH VICTOR KILO LIMA Setup https://imgur.com/a/btKYyBe LIMA - Laythe Landing and Rescue Screenshots https://imgur.com/a/uZsrkKi Video https://youtu.be/DV9TxOlBg2o

Yes, but the fairing was longer back then. I don't know when it changed but it is much shorter now. Jeb had plenty of space back then. Worst worst case we send a rescue craft to Jool. With a bit of rule bending it might not be completely illegal since Jool 5 allows for one refuelling mission. There is/was an extra docking port on KILO so all we need is a tiny little ladder somewhere on the refuelling craft... Ladders are of course fuel since they "fuel" the ladder drives. Let's hope it doesn't get to that though.

I tried to deploy the fairing but it didn't help. It seems it is the decoupler that is too close to the ladder. I have no idea what will happen once this enters the atmosphere but maybe Jeb can grab the ladder for those few hot seconds during reentry. I guess the good news is that this is another worlds first. I very much doubt anyone has ever tried to push a Kerbal from Jool to Kerbin...

Quicksave/reload will fix that Jeb also has plenty of RCS fuel left so the catch and release maneuvers won't be too annoying. Since there's 4200 m/s left you also have a lot of options for hitting Kerbin and could perhaps even eyeball it. If not, I'd recommend the miss-and-hit method, where you don't even try to hit the first time, measure the time diff between when Kerbin passes Pe and when you pass Pe, then adjust your orbit to match Kerbins +- the time difference. It only requires a calcuation of the orbital period so it is doable in a spreadsheet. If no one else wants to, I don't mind but it is the last chance to take an active part in this once-in-a-lifetime opportunity.

That was so Kerbal I had to try it myself. I used RAPIERS instead for the higher max thrust at a higher mach. I was shot out into space without even using the closed cycle mode and had about 5200m/s in orbit. I emptied all the oxygen from the tank and gradually lowered the ascent trajectory to make the most out of the engines and... The TWR is nothing special at first. But... If you stay low enough, the engines suddenly kick in and give a huge boost. Thats about 7g or so! It doesn't last for very long since the altitude gets too high and the oxygen drops. It is pretty close to burning up but it keeps on accelerating up to about 20km and I think it stopped at about 1700 m/s. I'm in orbit with 7531 m/s left! Eve is still out of the question though...