dvader

That was a fun mission! Trying to land at Tylo with just full throttle or no throttle was about as hard as expected. Afterwards, I thought "Great, now it's just Laythe. That's some nice and easy flying" but... yeah... not so much without control . I noticed the plane had landing gears but are you really supposed to land? I was not even close to doing that. I could fly, but not straight or control which side was "up". I figured I'd just fall to the ground using the parachutes but exploded several times because the terminal velocity was too high. I don't know if it was an intended puzzle to solve but the only solution I could find was to deploy the parachutes and ... That finally brought the speed down below 7 m/s so things did not go boom. A very nice little mission! Thanks for making it!

I just finished Vanadium and... Whoa... That was disturbingly accurate I wanted something new to do so I decided to go for the "Stayputnik version" with no contracts, no kerbals (only unmanned rockets) and no tech above 45 so basically only Stayputniks for all ships. So, just for showing off... sorry... curiosity, I was wondering how difficult it would be to send an unmanned probe to Eve and back with no coms coverage so only full throttle burns in whatever direction. It was inspired by @5thHorsemans Jool Mix-Up mission (which I intend to try next). The idea was that if you point your craft prograde at Ap, then it should be retrograde at Pe and hence you can both increase and decrease your orbital period and thus get an intercept. I figured it might be a useful tool in the caveman arsenal for harder games. The short version, it worked but... no... it was a LOT of work and not very practical at all. It actually helped to not have SAS since a burn would make the craft rotate and thus you could change direction slowly. Repeated orbital calculations were critical for success and I think I only used two reloads, one going to Eve and one going back. The short version in pictures is here: Here are detailed videos. The first covers the beginning and the Kerbol mission. The second is the Eve mission so there's lots and lots of waiting, small corrections, calculations etc. Eve intercept at 5:35 and Kerbin intercept at 11:38. Finally, Minmus just to quickly finish things. A very wobbly landing at 2:54 and return to Kerbin at 5:17. And that's it for Vanadium.

I'm thinking of "the other way". The main problem right now is that the only player "reward" is science. Once you've finished the tech tree (often before Duna) the reward is gone and you have to find a reason to continue playing yourself. I would like some story mission which holds your hand a bit, shows you some places and suggests some cool things to do (like flying a plane around Eve). I don't want it to be tied to the tech tree because... ... and it is a bit silly anyway: "Thanks to the accurate measurements of the pressure differential between high and low space around Minmus, we finally figured out how to build larger landing wheels!". So, the most common measurements in space are Temperature and Pressure? Not taking pictures or measuring radiation? Really? I don't think a scoreboard/badges/world firsts would do. I thought it could be fun to try to do all the worlds firsts but I stopped playing that career game around Jool. It was just so repetetive to do another "crew transfer around X". So, optional story missions pinpointing locations of interest and suggesting things to do. Preferably related by some story arc. The only change I'd like to the tech tree is unmanned before manned since it is a bit unfair to send Kerbals to their death during the first 5 minutes of the game. Also, the stayputnik is very cool looking but probably the most useless part right now which is a real shame (the small-medium connector is much later tech). Sorry, this probably got a bit off topic. Main point: Colored backgrounds for parts indicating their size (or other visual clue).

My personal gripe about the 1.4 parts overhaul was the reduced visual distinguishability between parts. Before the overhaul, it was much easier to tell the small decoupler from the medium or large because they had different colors/textures. Now, they all look the same and I either have to sort by mass or "hover" with the mouse every time to find the right one. Same with the fuel tanks. It is MUCH more difficult to find the right tank now when they are all white with similar textures. I have a solution though which does not impede on Squads artistic freedom, let the background behind the part be different colors for different sizes. Light blue for 06, light red for 12 etc. This way, the parts can be as visually similar as you like but much easier to find. I value visual practicality much more than visual appeal since I spend more time making rockets than prettifying them. I do value pretty environments a lot but that is a different story. P.s. I would also very much recommend a career overhaul. My career games end when I run out of motivation which is long before I've seen all planets or done the cool things. A set of story missions would be great. Something like "The Tylo orbiter we asked you to build showed unusual readings at this spot. Please send a rover to take soil samples. Oh, look! You found unobtainium. Send a mining team". Give me a reason to fly through the Mun canyons or send a glider to Eve. Before mission builder release, I thought it could probably be used to build career missions but since it is a completely separate thing, a career overhaul is still needed.

Not returning from space is even faster! It wasn't a huge difference but I got down to 32 minutes so ten minutes faster . It was rather hectic so I forgot to screenshot anything interesting (only science return so I'll skip that). But, I did film it. I really really wanted to go below 30 minutes but made a few small mistakes that probably cost me 1-5 minutes. Don't try to get Transmission Station Hub micro biome. It is just way too hard to find it. I got it by accident during my previous run but couldn't this time. Alternatively, figure out exactly why it is sometimes there and sometimes not. Pack more batteries for the space launch. I couldn't send all the science home Remember to jump on shores and grasslands for "flying" I noticed something has changed with the micro biomes. VAB Main Building is no longer there but instead, once you touch the VAB, the biome changes to Vehicle Assembly Building which is different from the VAB biome. It also seems to "stick". Once you touch the building, it still says Vehicle Assembly even when you back away again. Same with R&D Corner Lab and SPH Main Building. EDIT: Also, in my first attempt, I couldn't get "Flying over VAB" and such science. I'm pretty sure you could that before. There were plenty of reloads. Especially near the end when I realised I didn't have enough batteries and desperately tried to send Val to Grasslands as fast as possible for some extra science. Tech screen screenshot is here: Full video here. The speedrun ends at 9:09 and then I rescue Jeb (just because). The speedrun vs NCD is like the KSC got a new angry boss: "40 years to complete the tech tree is too long! You have 40 minutes! NOW GET TO WORK!"

Oh, a speed run. 42m is very impressive so challenge accepted! I'll be back...

After NCD, I figured I'd try Talc since I really want that Badge of Honor (sooo pretty). But, rockets are dangerous! Both pilots were killed in a horrible accident! So, mission control added some extra rules. No Kerbals are allowed on rockets. Only proven tech. At most Lvl 45. No level 90 stuff. That is, only the stayputnik is allowed. That is, only unmanned crafts with the stayputnik is allowed. Story here: https://imgur.com/a/fOF5NGQ Video here: Since I still have Vanadium to do, I might try the same thing again (someday). Oh, also no contracts but with 250,000 starting cash it made no difference.

Thanks! But, I guess 3 months real time for a game challenge would be considered a long time by most ordinary people (maybe 1.5-2 not counting vacations). At first I thought it was just more fun to do something new and see what I could do with Bob but he really proved invaluable. If I'd do it again I would probably (ab)use him again. The playthrough could be streamlined a bit by skipping the Greenoliths that didn't pay off and go for interplanetary as soon as possible. I don't think the beginning can be modified much though. I basically did the same thing you did with only minor differences (like landing on rooftops instead of early space EVA) but there are so few options that I can't imagine huge improvements. But then again, I didn't think anyone would ever beat it at all so I wouldn't trust my judgement

That's it! I am finally done with the NCD attempt after a months of playing. Both Bob and Val are back, all tech has been researched and I have 300 science left. There was a serious incident right before the injection burn back at Kerbin when Bob unexpectedly dropped the ladder. Thanks to a ridiculous amount of fuel left, I managed to save the situation but it was rather nerve wrecking to say the least. That is Kerbin in the picture, Bob is almost 30 km away and moving away from me at 350m/s and the only engine I have left is this tiny Spark that is trying to push a 4t craft as fast as it can... Full story here: https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/175894-caveman-the-making-of-another-nanocrystalline-diamond/&do=findComment&comment=3446216

Done! There was some last minute drama but both Bob and Val are safely back on Kerbin. (but is Kerbin safe?) Full story is here: https://imgur.com/a/zs4v8yb with the detailed, unedited video below. A short summary of the excitement: At about 9:15 video time, all is well and Bob gets hold of the ladder one last time, I check and start the engines and prepare for the final insertion burn. I speed up to 4x, go forward a bit, then go back to take a few final screenshots at 9:30. All seem fine and Bob is by the ladder. Or is he... His arms are getting suspiciously long. I go back and forth a bit to check the fuel in the side tanks and at about 10:00 I burn off the remaining 300 dV for the main engines and drop them. The trajectory "forks" a bit but I don't notice. At about 10:05 (40 real time seconds later) I realise there is a weird fork in my trajectory... What is going on, where is Bob and what's his trajectory? If he goes below 70k he will turn into smoke... At 10:11, I realise Bob must have let go of the ladder before the burn so he is on a safe trajectory but he is now 16 km away and is travelling away from the ship at 365 m/s. Also, the target lock is gone but can be re-acquired (I have no idea why. Maybe I clicked on Kerbin). I try to catch up as quickly as I can but with a single Spark and full tanks it's not going very fast... I designed for dV, not emergency maneuvers. At 10:17, something goes wrong. At first I can't figure out what is going on. The ship spins when the retrograde marker shifts to prograde but the engines are dead and I can't restart them. There should be thousands of dV left but nothing happens. After a while I realise some idiot disabled crossfeed on the main tank! The smaller, later stage tanks are spent but the big tank is still full. I enable crossfeed again and continue burning. At 10:55, I catch up with Bob again but I'm already at 300km, well past periapsis. I start burning frantically, while keeping an eye on the Pe. I don't want the ship or Bob to get below 70km just in case some other disaster strikes (like I run out of fuel and fail to launch a rescue mission in time). It costs a lot, almost 2000 dV or so but in the end I am in an orbit around Kerbin. Now, I can finally relax a bit. I have about 800 dV left and use it to lower my Ap to well below the Mun before launching a return craft. Things fortunately go well from here and both Val and Bob end up alive and on the ground. The mission yields 730 science, much more than the 450 I need, and both Val and Bob gets promoted! It was probably the worst possible moment for Bob to drop the ladder and I am glad I had such a ridiculous amount of fuel left. I needed every bit of it to save the situation (well, 2/3rds of it). That concludes my NCD Caveman attempt. About 640 science came from Bop, 427 from Minmus, 101 from Jool, 100 from Mun, 88 from Kerbin and 15 from Kerbol. After researching all techs I have about 300 science left.

Thank you! I didn't plan it from the start but once Bob was in space I started wondering what else I could do and the Kraken seemed both fun and plausible. Once I started thinking about it I had to since it would be such a nice ending for Bob who has really done all the heavy lifting this time. I was also compelled by the ancient ones of course... I even made a custom flag as a tiny teaser (but I don't think anyone noticed):

Ha ha ha! I thought it would be something technical but it makes perfect sense now . Yes, with the "retroactive simulator" the intercept should be fine and you only have the ejection burn and inclination change to worry about. But, even those can be retrofitted with the "simulator". So, assuming it is only your patience that is the limit, 810 dV should be enough

What's "retroactive simulation"? I tried estimating the interception accuracy by comparing distance ratio to velocity ratio but it means many small and fairly late corrections (since it is difficult to estimate average velocity until you're close to Ap). I was planning on using the same technique to avoid Tylo/Vall/Laythe on the way in to Jool but I didn't have to. My main concern would be grazing encounters since missed encounters just need time to get a second chance. A grazing encounter can force you to choose between a very high dV burn (at most 1700 dV or so) or the unknown risk of totally messing up your Kerbol orbit and not getting another chance easily. Another serious risk is ending up in reverse orbit (against the direction of the moons) which would add to the intercept cost with any moon. A small tip is to wait until the planned intercept is at the ascending/descending node of the Jool/Kerbin orbits. There is of course no marker for planets but you can estimate it using the tracking station. This should minimize any mid course inclination changes and save fuel. Ejection angle and timing is of course important too but can be corrected once out Kerbins SoI. Many smaller burns help but I screwed up the ejection anyway and opted for a 25 year long 2x Jool orbit solution just to conserve fuel and stay safe. The extra time was well spent practising how to let go of the ladder but that's another story. It all paid off in the end (but I still have to go home): SPOILER

A lot has happened since last. Bob's will has been carried out and there were no major disasters. The story continues here with: The awakening! https://imgur.com/a/q7Y1TPG Teaser: Here's also a video with all the details. It's a total of three real hours of game time in two (or three) sessions. The action starts at about 1:40 and then again at about 13:50. It starts with the final orbit around kerbol, then Jool intercept, Bop intercept, visiting all 5 biomes, awakening the ancient one and finally going back up for a rendezvous with my fuel tanks (which was a lot harder than expected). Now I'm in space around Bop with science worth millions... or at least hundreds... Next, I have to go back to Kerbin of course. The surface missions cost more than expected but my main fuel tanks still hold much more than expected. My calculations say I might have 5800 dV left but that is so much that I don't really trust the numbers.

You can see it in action at 8m12s. It is really exciting stuff : https://youtu.be/rIynwubQWAE?t=8m12s I let go, warp, grab and let go again. Then I go to the tracking station to check Ap/Pe since you can't tell the ship orbit from Bobs orbit in the map view.

Making videos was easier than expected so here's Part 2. It could be the most boring video on the internet with 12 minutes of spreadsheet calculations, minute changes, more calculations and then waiting... and then calculations, waiting and so on. Even at 8x it is slow. I'll add some screenshots later for those who can't be bothered to watch. The good news is I may have found a way to decrease Bobs drift. By first holding on to the ladder, letting go, going to warp but quickly going back to normal before he drifts away from the ladder, gripping the ladder again and then letting go one last time it seems the drift is reduced a lot. I believe the ship is just much more stable after a short warp than it is with just SAS and that might be the difference. Or, it's just random luck. Anyway, after my last orbit Bob didn't drift more than 300m which is quite impressive over more than 5 years. I'm down to the last orbit now and my calculations suggest that if I do nothing, I should be 12000 seconds or 27 Mm away from a perfect hit so the gravitational pull should/could make it dead center. I might just live with that since the general error in my measurements could be much greater. But, that's a decision for another day.

Done! I couldn't figure out how to concatenate or speed up using those fancy GUI tools but good old ffmpeg could. I am not a youtuber and have no ambitions to become one so please excuse any amateurishness. It is a concatenation of the first two sessions at 8x the speed, about 2h 50min real time. It ends a bit prematurely when I press the keypad minus button to zoom out since it is also tied to "stop recording"... I didn't bother recording the next session since it was mostly updating spreadsheets and doing other stuff while waiting for the ship to go around its orbit. I also have a plan for checking Bobs drift before going for the next long time warp. His Ap is almost the same as the ships but the Pe is about 600 km lower. The difference in orbital period is about 563 seconds which at a speed of 2200 m/s is 1.2 Mm so that explains the full drift. So, I can probably check the efficiency of any drift reducing method by just checking Bobs Ap/Pe after he lets go of the ladder. But first, I have to catch him again.

And we are on our way! Some things went well and others not so much. In terms of real time, having Bob around is quite expensive. Normally, when a ship is in orbit you just go full throttle and you are on your way. This time, it took 1h 50m of real time from a fully assembled ship to having Bob on the ladder. Then it took 3 ship orbits to eject because I didn't pick him up in time for the ejection burn and had to try again. The good news is that all the space trash added a lot more dV than expected. I got to an Ap of 8.5Mm and still had trash left to burn. It must have been at least 800 dV. The not so good news is that my central trash engine drained some of the fuel from the late stage central tanks. I discovered it pretty quickly and didn't lose too much but it could have ended the mission if I had not noticed. I had turned off crossfeed on one of the docking ports to prevent this sort of thing but it seems crossfeed might be one directional or you have to turn it off on both ports. I don't know which. I think it cost me 100-200 dV so it is not mission threatening, just annoying. The other not so good news is that my ejection angle was too small and I ended up with Jool being less than 55 degrees behind me. During testing I always got a larger angle than I wanted but maybe I was just more carefull with this burn. It means I have to burn retrograde at Ap to go faster and catch up with Jool. Orbital energy calculations suggest I need 300 dV in the "wrong" direction so if I get a really bad Jool intercept, I will need another 300 dV extra to achieve orbit. After some thinking, I decided to take it slow and go for 2 Jool orbits and 4 ship orbits meaning I only have to do a 80 dV retrograde burn. The ship arrived at Ap one orbit later exactly when it should (4 minutes difference over 5.5 years is pretty impressive) but... Bob is 1.2 Mm away. It would still be a pretty good Jool hit but I would like it to be better. Maybe I can reduce his drift by stabilizing the ship even more before I let go. Or maybe small compensating burns during orbit... I don't know but I have one more orbit to go before the final orbit corrections so I still have time to practice. Another annoying thing is that x100000 warp speed isn't 100,000 faster. The ship has an orbital period of about 50M seconds. At x100000 that should be 8 minutes so 4 minutes for half an orbit. I set a timer at 4 minutes and left but when I returned, I had almost gone one full orbit and not just one half. So, note to self: Don't leave the computer unattended during x100000 warp. Full story: https://imgur.com/a/2Tze39I Not so many highlights. I really spend most of the time intercepting with Bob, calculating stuff in a spreadsheet, doing small corrections and waiting. Here's Bob at 71 Gm achieving a new altitude record for EVA cavemen. I have a video of parts of it which I might post.

I am really looking forward to seeing @Rakaydos build in action. I just finished my Jool ship for the final mission and I can't even imagine the difficulties involved when building something that big. Mine is tiny in comparison (since it has a very limited mission scope) but still suffers from self induced oscillations when the SAS is on. The unconventional looks are mostly due to the random space junk that the clever engineers decided to add at the very last minute. The trash is from failed launches and adds about 1100 Lq or 700 dV (assuming the whole thing doesn't shake apart when I start the engines).

The ship has been built and the time for mission launch is coming closer. I've visually examined the inclination of the Jool orbit and there seems to be a decent launch window in just 200 days or so. I'm gonna wait until Jool is at least 55 degrees behind the major axis and then launch. Here's the build process (and some money missions and preparing to pick up Bob): https://imgur.com/a/Zt78RDM Highlights: Edwin the Engineer: We named it the Ravens Nest because you're a cool flying pilot and it will be your home for the next few weeks or months. Val: Ravens Nest. Fitting name. It sure looks like it was built from twigs held together by saliva. Are you sure it won't shake apart once you start the engines? Edwin: No, the self induced oscillations were due to the SAS. Just leave it off and you'll be fine. Val: WHAT?

@Muetdhiver That is so weird... I'm sure I calculated the 2.5 orbit solution the first thing I did but rejected it for some reason. But, now that I reopen my spreadsheet and just enter the numbers with the exact same formulas I used for the 4 ship orbit solution and, there it is: A perfectly valid solution leaving when Jool is 53 degrees behind and hitting Jool after just two ship orbits = 1.16 Jool orbits. That is, with a Jool orbit of 12.24 years and a ship orbit of 5.6 years: (1+53/360)*12.24 = 2.5 * 5.6 =14.04 years. I must have made some kind of mistake, mentally discarded the 2 orbit solution and then fixed the mistake before calculating the 4 orbit solution. I was thinking of using Keplers Equation to calculate the time to Ap by measuring all relevant angles either directly on screen or from a screenshot but it seemed like a lot of work. Both to get the formulas right and to use it since the angles must be measured accurately. Now I don't have to Thanks for making me check my calculations again! Both Bob and Val owe you 10 years of their lives.

@Muetdhiver That is the method I've been using for rendezvous around Kerbin up until now. I didn't want to do the same thing with Jool since the only reasonable intercept I could find required 25.2 years of waiting. Even though my testing says it should work, I am a bit concerned Bob might have an early meeting with the Kraken if he floats in space for such a long time. I haven't tested the orbit calculations in KSP (and I don't think I will since it is 25 years of waiting at 100,000x), but my spreadsheet says the best option would be: I launch from kerbin when Jool is about 22 degrees (=0.06 orbits) "behind" the ships major axis. I reach Ap the first time after 2.8 years, adjust my Pe hopefully just a tiny bit then go around four times more for a total of 25.2 years which is 4.5 ship orbits and 2.06 Jool orbits. It is probably the most accurate way of doing it (especially with corrections at Pe as well as you suggested) but I am concerned about Bobs well being. Losing the "target lock" on Bob while orbiting would be a quick end to the mission. Testing says that won't happen but... nobody expects the Kraken (or the spanish inquisition). Still, the more I think about it, I realise I probably have to do it that way. My other method of estimating the time to intercept by comparing screen distance ratio to velocity ratios works but requires repeated small adjustments which means I have to pick up Bob an unknown number of times which I might regret once there. Just getting him from Minmus to Mun was more annoying than expected because of all the small burns.

Since I hope to carry a passenger all the way, I want to minimize the number of burns (since I have to pick the guy up for every maneuver). Plan A does not include any of the closer planets at all. But, during testing I realised there are too many uncertainties so I need a plan B, C and probably D as well. If the intercept is far out, I skip the inner planets, if the orbit is reversed I go to Tylo to re-reverse it, if I end up very close to Jool I just hope I don't hit Tylo/Vall, but if I do then I improvise. In short I'll keep a close eye on my orbit and try to calculate the risk of an intercept whenever I get close to a body. But, there's really too many inaccuracies for any proper planning. Eve + Gilly would of course be much easier (and enough science) but Bob insists we go to Jool. I don't know why.

Vacations are finally over and we are back in business. I've spent a couple of days trying to figure out how to continue and I think I'm ready. I've spent some time trying to improve my planetary interception tactics in a sandbox and let's just say @Muetdhiver makes it look much easier than it is. There are many risks of uncontrollable costs like entering the SoI in a reverse orbit or with a very high Pe. Depending on a worst vs best case scenario, a Jool trip could cost anything between 6k and 9k dV depending on how lucky the Jool/Kerbin intercepts are. I can probably reduce the risk of a worst case intercept by using some tools like my Transfer Window Paper at launch and by estimating the interception accuracy when close (Using v_ship / v_body = d_ship / d_body where v is the velocity and d is the physical on screen distance from the ship/body to the interception point). By the way, I can't do any aerobraking since I hope there will still be a live passenger on the ladder after this. So, where was I. Right:

It seems like Bob has almost made up his mind on where to go. I wish he could just tell us... But, in the meantime, the science department has been working on a transfer window planner that seem to work alright. The math behind it is simple. Calculate the time it takes to go from Kerbin orbit to Eve orbit. Then calculate the orbital period for Eve and estimate how many degrees Eve moves in the time it takes to go from Ap at Kerbin to Pe at Eve (assuming circular planetary orbits). Print on paper and hold in front of the monitor (Warning: Crappy picture): The central line should line up with the major axis of your ship and the solid lines show how much "behind" the planet should be. The thinner dotted lines mark the SoI so as long as you're within the dotted region, you should at least hit the target SoI. You can hardly see the dotted lines around Eve since it is only about 0.05 degrees. If my calculations are correct, Eve is about twice as hard to hit as Duna but Jool is about as 20x easier (2 deg vs 0.13 for Duna). The SoI Deg column below shows how "big" the SoI is in degrees. Sandbox testing also shows that as long as you target a Kerbal on EVA when close to the ship, they can stray as far as they like (millions of meters) and still be targeted. They dissappear from the ship screen at about 100km but the navball still shows the direction and relative speed. So, it should be safe to let the EVA kerbal drift from the ship while time warping for very long times. Just don't loose the target lock... Interplanetary rescue in Caveman would be very hard indeed. So, not much actual game play lately (I blame both the summer and the Impact the Mun weekly challenge) but some lessons learnt.