MPDerksen

I haven't unlocked the relay antenna yet. I just checked, and only have the 2 "16"s and the HG-5. I need more science to move forward on the tree. I didn't MEAN to change that setting, in fact, I don't even know where it is.... lol. I don't think I'm in the right place, or maybe I just started the game that way and now I'm locked in. I'm totally having fun with this, but should probably just ask less and try more. Linking a few missions together IS a neat challenge, but stretching too far would be more frustrating than educational.

So I put a probe in orbit a while back (it doesn't have an antenna, I don't believe). This is my concern with using an un-manned craft. Once it goes "red", I can't control it anymore. I'm still new to Career mode, so should I take some time to put some relays in my system? Why isn't my probe "relaying" my signal to Mun? Lack of antenna? (which was a stupid oversight). This is what I have to choose from. My 2 pilots each only have a single star.

I TOTALLY missed that. Wow, that would have been frustrating. I'll skip the rescue on this trip, then, and just get the probe stable and get my science missions done. This means I don't have to come back, which changes the math and the design quite a bit, right? So that I have solid control, what do you recommend as a command unit for this? Just the OKTO?

Very cool. Here is a picture of the 2 target orbits. The green is my goal for leaving the probe for mission #3. I'm thinking I will hit that first and leave the probe behind (leaving my rocket lighter) and THEN move out to intercept the Derelict/stranded Kerbalnaut in the yellow, higher orbit. (You can also see the stranded Kerbal on the dark side that I will land and rescue in the next mission) Below is my first guess at a craft design. This is TOTAL shooting in the dark. The bottom is the empty seat for my rescue, above is my pilot (radial chutes). I've attached this via a docking port because I also have a mission to dock 2 vessels above the Mun (which will be in the next mission when I rescue Phowell from the surface). I have some science stuff in the bay, along with a single monoprop can. I didn't know where else to put it. I have 2 x 1x6 panels on the side and a battery below the OKTO. My tracking station is level 2, so the pair of communitron-16s will be enough, right? can you please explain why I would want the ANT engine instead of just the RCS jets? If I add that, I can't have a docking port. In your comments above, you mention the higher return velocity from Mun. I still haven't done enough of this to know better, so how much dV will I need once I'm on my way back to loop around and land? This might be the perfect mission to try and land at the pole for getting science from that biome, but I'm not bringing any science modules home so all I would get is the EVA and surface sample? Do i need a fairing around this thing? I can always just test fly it and see. And finally, if I have a good 1st and 2nd stage saved, do I have to load that, and then build on top of it? Or is there a way to pull it out and stick it under the probe I just built?

I think I can knock out 3 missions in a single flight. 2 request science data be transmitted or recovered from Kerbin and the Mun, respectively. For those, I think I just take a thermometer and an antenna, take a reading from orbit, and then send it back. I have a level 2 tracking station, so I think a simple communitron-16 will cover it. The 3rd one is asking me to put an unmanned probe into Mun orbit, with specific numbers, and has me puzzled. 1) Unmanned means using an OKTO, but I won't have control on the dark side of Mun, so I wonder if it's best to carry the probe and launch it from a manned rocket? Or put some relays around Mun first? (that would be an entirely different challenge, I think). Just put the probe on top of the capsule and separate at the right time? Put some RCS stuff on there in case I need to tweak it? 2) The orbit requested says "Longitude of Ascending Node. 177.1 degrees". I understand what it's asking, but I'm not clear how to know the Longitude as I move it. 3) Here is the fundamental question: planning a mission, I tend to think down. I design and build the top that will accomplish the goals (in this case the probe), then put enough horsepower below it to get where I want to go. In this case, I'm not clear HOW MUCH dV I'm going to need for all this. Rather than telling me how much for this one, can you help me learn how to figure it out myself? This way, I'm not asking for EVERY mission I attempt. 4) Bonus question: I also have a 4th mission of rescuing Edtop from the orbit of Mun. Now that I've done this successfully 3 times from Kerbin orbit, maybe I can try this one before/after my probe launch? I'm generally thinking that I can take the same rocket I've been using for the last 3 rescues, stick a probe on top (need help with design), and then add enough dV to complete everything. That would be the over-all mission plan.

3rd stranded Kerbal rescued on the first try, and a ton of left-over dV in the tanks. Thanks for the help.

Is that a mod? I have NO mods yet. I'm still, obviously, very new here.

Rescued. Needed 2 tries with the EVA part, but even that is starting to make a bit more sense. I had about 1,400dV left over, so I inclined a ton, and tried to land in a new biosphere. Ended up in the highlands, which wasn’t new after all. 1 more derelict in orbit to go get. Then I think it’s time to attempt an actual docking.

Yes, you said Orbital, and that's what I did. That was a typo. I haven't turned on the RCS yet at all.

I'd love an explanation of what just happened. I did like you said, and thrusted (slowly) in prograde to my target at the intersection point. I watched the distance of the next intersect slowly drop to about 5Km. I waited until I got to that one, and repeated. I was able to get that one down to 0.5Km!!! Now, using small words and concepts, can you explain why this was the case? When I reached the 500m intersection point, I burned retrograde to drop my relative speed from 14.6m/s down to 0.0m/s. It only stayed that way for a few seconds before becoming 0.1m/s and climbing. Slowly, but still. I switched to the stranded Kerbal, and tried (and failed) to EVA. I'll try again, but think I should thrust TOWARDS my target to close the gap from 500m to much closer. Is the proper method to burn retrograde to get 0.0m/s, then burn towards the target, then get back to 0 once I'm as close as I want? I do need EVA practice, and I think I'll nail this one after a few more tries. But given that docking is even MORE delicate, I really need a longer window to work with than I'm getting.

So if BOTH my Ap and Pe are greater than my target, I won’t cross paths, and there is a danger that the closest I will ever get is the distance between orbits? But since you had me put my Pe below the Ap, and there is no appreciable inclination, I should be able to actually cross paths and get really close. Is that the idea? I’ll try this tonight and come up with new issues to be frustrated by

So here we are, in orbit, with an intersect coming up. I already tried this once, and failed to create a 0m/s situation (well, I did, but it wasn't stable, and it quickly got away from me). I have my AN and DN at 0.0, so I'm good there. What kind of maneuver node should I place to get the 25.9km down to <2km? I suspect I'm trying to do my retrograde burn while I'm still really far away from my target.

Helpful. thanks. I have a mission to rescue a Kerbal from the dark side of the mun. I wasn't thinking, and had a lander with just an OKTO. I think you can guess what happened. Now I'm building a lander with an extra seat, but the fact remains I'd like to stay in contact more than I am. I also need to figure out how to get a science bay down to the surface of Mun, and home so I don't have to transmit everything...

Is there a summary write-up out there that helps me understand the various antenna and dishes, and what to do with them? I get stuck here and there when there is no signal for my OKTO, or whatever. Particularly on the backside of Mun. Is the correct solution to put a few satellites around Mun as relays? I assume these could be REALLY small and simple.

So above is my target. I would love to be able to intercept in the daylight. Notice one of the 3 craft orbiting is the leftover Vergas Derelict I left behind when I picked her up. Maybe I create a mission at some point to bump them out of orbit, but that's another thread. Option #2, if I can't get a daylight encounter, should I put a few lights on my craft? Here is the top part of my rescue design. Each of those pods have 20 mono in them, so 4 is over-kill? Is it a problem to have the jets below that over-hang like that? I also added a few places to grab on, since last time it was tricky to get her around to the hatch. Finally, here is the staging for my full rocket. I have 4 LF boosters around a central one. Each is made up of 2 x T800 tanks. I have no issue getting into my orbit of choice with this. Once I'm close, I was using the terrier 909 with a T400 to handle the changes to get me close. Am I reading correctly that the 4x2 tanks provide 2045m/s, the 2x2 in the middle give 1613ms and the little T400 gives 366m/s? Does it calculate this based on the reduced weight I've dumped when I decouple? Lots of details here, but I'm learning a TON.

Last time, I worked really hard at matching the orbits, which seems to have been unnecessary. When I got close, I would burn retro, the intersect point would move ahead of me, but slightly closer. Rinse and repeat. With the way you describe it, I get 1 shot at the intercept, and once I start burning towards the target, I'm committed, right?

Forgive me for not using the search feature. With community help I’ve rescued the first of 3 Kerbals from LKO. My hope is to get better each time. This time, I’m adding a few RCS “jets” for more precis control to get stable, since these are previews to learning to dock. So, as I create my improved craft, I have a few questions BEFORE I end up in the wrong situation and have to spend hours correcting. 1). Running the current version, I think I can evaluate dV in the Assembly building, right? How much monopropellent, oxidizer etc should I pack along? Keep in mind I’m pretty new, so we should add about 20% for all the mistakes I’m about to make. 2). My target has an Ap of 85K, and a Pe of 77K. My mission plan is to launch ahead of him, ascend to a higher orbit, and let him catch up. Any suggestion how I should set this up? Circularize at 100K, then drop in on him? 3). After picking up Vergas (nice to get a free engineer, right?), we left her derelict craft in orbit. Is there a way to clear that out so I don’t end up with a bunch of junk in my orbit? Thanks in advance, MPD

Yes sir. a reasonable question. I just got within 500m, did the EVA, and watching splash-down on my other screen. Success. I had a lot of fuel leftover (which is a first), and i will modify my craft and now go after the second of three stranded pilots.

all this makes sense. thanks. Should I back up a few quicksaves and create an orbit where my Ap is above, and my Pe is below the orbit of my target? I have 3 of these crafts in orbit right now, and want to rescue all 3 as practice (one at a time, clearly). What is the best option, reboot or go from here?

right, so that Tutorial helped, but I'm not getting closer. In fact, my intersection points get further away with each effort. I see how I'm supposed to move the pink target to move on top of the retrograde marker. But the target is passing below me at a lower orbit. Once that happens, then I end up flipping around and chasing it. My m/s goes from it getting closer to me, to it pulling away. In the first picture below, you can see that we don't REALLY "intersect", but I suspect this is our closest point of passing? Now here is my nav ball. According to the tutorial, I would guide the pink marker onto the retrograde one by going to the other side, thrusting, and it would move the yellow one on top of the pink one... Here is a picture from that tutorial. As you can see, the relative speed between them is much higher, and the markers are much closer together than mine above. What's happening, is that I get my speed down to about 3m/s, then Vergas flies below me, and starts pulling ahead. Then, the next encounter is even further away. I'm generally not very good at this, I guess, so what else can I try?

So here is the clarification I may need. I was starting with an orbit that was higher (slower) than my target, and letting it catch me. But if I was in a lower orbit and catching it, then prograde and retrograde get flipped? Geez, I’m probably over-thinking this. But I don’t want to get lucky, I want to LEARN the process. I’ll reread the entire thread before i just stab at it again. (Plus it looks like there are a few more replies below to consider...)

You guys are really patient and helpful. I’m not really able to get identical orbits, which I’m not sure how critical that is. Current state is now. Rescue Ship: Pe - 77014 Ap - 85328 Target: Pe - 77065 Ap - 85346 The next Interscet is in 29m, 26s. Separation of 3.0Km Relative Speed of 13.6m/s I backed up a few quick saves to adjust my orbits closer (I was within 0.6Km, but only had a few min to EVA before the ships separated). Right now, with my nav ball on “Target” mode, I see the pink markers mentioned above. However, I’m not really sure if the 13.6m/s referrs to getting closer or further apart. I think the first step is a little advice how to get my relative speed down to 0.0m/s. How close do the orbits need to match? Is the above close enough just for a simple rescue or docking? Edit Note: I got to the node. I pointed at the target, and burned prograde. Never got close. Then it got ahead of me and when I went back to the map, my orbit was not significantly different and the next encounter was going to be 110K separation. So yeah, I’m missing something or I’m not smart enough for this simulation. Michael

I did set the ship as "target", so that's how I know my relative m/s. I'm just having a terrible time knowing what thrust to use to move in closer. I got to 70m, but then was going too fast to slow down, and zipped right by. It doesn't seem as simple as just pointing at it, thrust prograde, and then slow down with retrograde. The little guy doesn't actually point AT the ship the way a ship with SAS will.

SO close!! I got to about 600m from the Vergas craft, and m/s about 0.4. I switch to Vergas, EVA, and start flying. This is a whole different battle. How do I know if I’m flying towards the craft directly? Since the EVA pilot doesn’t have SAS, do I maneuver to keep the Prograde marker in the center of the nav ball, and my m/s reasonable? Since I can’t pitch to face directly at my target (or can I?), I’m faced with not knowing which thrust to apply to slow myself when I get close. I put the rescue ship directly behind Vergas, hit space, and it only orientates left/right, not pitch. This would be a helpful binding...

My last thread was all over the place and I got LOTS of great help, but my questions were unfocused. Let me be specific on the current mission(s). I have a craft in LKO (Ap of 88.4K, and Pe of 78.5K). My target craft is in an orbit of Ap 85K and Pe of 74.5K. So basically a little below me, and will be catching me after many orbits. My An and Dn are at 0.7 degrees, so my next step is to get that to 0.0, right? Current separation at the Intersect 1 is 672km, but that should get smaller each revolution. My current question concerns that my Ap and Pe is not exactly at the same spot as my target. maybe 20km apart each? When I watch the Scott Manley videos, he shows that, once you get "close", you simply "match orbits" with your target to get your relative velocity the same. Several tries so far, and I get within a few km for a short time, then have to thrust all over the place to stay close, and then things go to xxxx. Let's start there with my questions?