DragonEG

Now it's working properly. Thanks!

Hey there! I have a kind of bugreport too. Targetron v.1.4.4 is not working for me at all. KSP x64 1.1.0.1230. No in-game indications for mod. Some AssemblyLoader Exceptions in logs regarding mod loading, see for yourself: KSP.log output_log.txt

Thanks for the quick fix! Some of previous fuel lines are still persists (line connected to the sky is quite funny, especially when you see in UI what it is actually hooked up to nearby craft) but otherwise everything is working and transferring all resources correctly, so... yay!

OK, looks like i'm going to be first... I've put line between two ships, opened EVA Transfer window, choose amount of resource, clicked "Begin Transfer" button and... nothing happened. Amount sliders reset back to 0% instantly and no transfer was completed. Here's screenshot of testing setup: Here is persistent file from save for scenario reproduction, if you need it: https://www.dropbox.com/s/u9gx8i9yx5rhgoi/persistent.sfs?dl=0 And here is output_log.txt (it is a way too bloated, but may be useful?): https://www.dropbox.com/s/5wstde743svyeam/output_log.txt?dl=0 What else information do you need? EDIT: and second one: previously cut fuel lines reset after game loading:

Looks like it's a browser's cache problem. I've got same (broken) link to 1.7.7 on download page using Chrome, but page refreshing (F5) solved it for me.

CactEye Orbital Telescope doesn't like to be ddsified too, at least \CactEye\Icons\crosshair.png should stay as it is, or you get big white opaque square in targeting GUI.

Looks like a bit old (but still working) Targetron mod uses hardcoded texture paths too. Every icon in it's GUI replaced with question mark after ddsification of \GameData\Targetron\Icons\. I suggest adding it to exceptions list too.

Attach something on top of rotatron, then attach wings to it. Make sure you put all rotatrons in one IR group. Assign "Move+" (or Move-) action for all of them into one action group. Launch, open IR controls for groups (window with buttons < 0 > and numeric field). Numeric field acts as speed multiplier, put something reasonable there. Click somewhere else to clean focus out of field, then press button for action group you assigned earlier. Enjoy your propeller explodes into pieces

No I'm going to use them without mods, stock challenge crafts should go without IR. Those surfaces can act as a very effective (and laggy, since you need a lot of them) wings. If you don't disable controls for them - they effectively act as infiniglider (rotating infiniglider of sort, yeah) which is out of challenge scope. Well, 3g is not the limit... Propeller explosion is. I think, it is possible to squeeze even more g-force at launch, since Rotatrons don't use torque, working with direct part rotation instead. So if you could provide really sturdy blades - you can jump to the skies like Batman out of fiery explosion. Cubic struts are a kind of landing gear, and stability enhancers too. Of course, if it was only for launch - I could use stock launch stabilizers instead. Free washer is used already - everything beyond lower propeller isn't spinning. And about quadcopters: covered already They won't fly very high. And have multiple stability problems. A pair of big counterrotating propellers driven by one Rotatron is far more reliable solution.

Wow... I didn't thought what small control surfaces can make that difference and prevent stall at such AoA. I need to review my design for stock leaderboard!

I achieved this result with IR Rotatron, FAR aerodynamics and 1t payload (FL-T200), and now I think that using IR as motor for this challenge is overpower... What do you think?

I've tried my previous design with FAR. It need some additional tweaking to be more stable. Highest point was 18786m, when it suddenly got flat spin. I've tried to recover it, but it crashes at runway's side. I'm not sure it can be count as modded entry, because it definitely could not float at maximum height. But here is the story:

About explosions: unfortunately, many pieces of equipment (including large SAS) have very weak physics joints and tend to break by centrifugal forces at peak rotation speeds. Try to use more sturdy parts as main structure and put SAS on them. Reducing vehicle radius also helps, but you will lose some lift due to lessen linear speed of wings. About stability: I found at least two points of relative stable flight. If you're near surface - huge, slow rotating blades tend to stabilize craft. But it will start to turn sideways around 5km, then with FAR you may gain stall by sideslip. If you somehow was able to stay on course during takeoff and first 4-7km with fast-rotating craft, it can stabilize itself with higher rotation speed (gyroscopic effect) when atmosphere becomes thinner. Looks like max speed can not exceed 300RPM, not sure about it. I have a couple of questions: Do using of Infernal Robotics parts as motors for driving propellers count as overpower and against the rules? And do using precision placement plugins, such as Part Angle Display count as "modded" (it have no parts, but it make significant difference because you can rotate things with much greater precision than in stock game)?

Ah, OK... I was slightly confused about it, so I did my attempt with payload attached. Here it is: R4K Mk28x "Super Kaptor" (actually, it is 32-nd generation of that craft) This vessel currently lifts 9t payload at 12140 meters (and I wonder, how far can it climb without one...). Payload consists of Rockomax X200-8 Fuel Tank (4.5t) + Mk1-2 Command Pod (4t) + Protective Rocket Nose Mk7 with some landing gears, lights and parachutes attached(~0.5t). I've used Kerbal Engineer Redux, Vessel Viewer and Alternate Resource Panel for digital and visual information readout, no other mods, just vanilla parts... lots of them. Here it is in VAB. There are two probe cores directly above RTGs for those who like to use Yaw control channel instead of Roll. And we are clear for takeoff! Just trim roll into full clockwise (Alt+Q) and let it do its job - vehicle do not require any control input and becomes more stable as it spin up. Unfortunately, there is a problem: due to high complexity of the ship it slows down physics time to around 0.3x. It is just a really long wait while it climbs up. I went for a cup of tea, so no mid-flight screenshots, sorry I checked it again after a while. And found it hovering there: It's not perfect, I'll try to improve this result, but that's my entry for stock ladder.

And what about payload?

ferram4 I have a minor bug for you: you forgot to check input values in FAR analysis system. If someone (like me) puts a, say, 0 in "Mach Number" input box for Stability Derivatives in SPH - this player immediately gets empty FAR window, unresponsible buttons of KSP and output log full of: [EXC 20:23:44.567] ArithmeticException: NAN [EXC 20:23:44.568] ArgumentException: Getting control 0's position in a group with only 0 controls when doing Repaint Aborting

OK, i'll try it without FAR. Obviously i'll just need some MORE boosters to achieve such speed. Parachute invert orientation slowly. Sorry, i can't record a video. Fresh KSP instance, only RealChute installed... ...a-a-and here it go again: Way to repeat: 1-2) Same as before, but use 4 Boosters with decouplers, like this: 3) This is enough to achieve apoapsis around 1.4Mm. 4-5) Deployment speed: ~2700 m/s, so you will immediately get "we're burning!" FX... 6) And chute goes in reverse until around 600m/s it returns to normal.

Just updated to 0.3.1 and immediately found a bug: Pre-deployed chute on in-atmosphere hyper-speeds flies faster than ship. Or something like this. Screenshot of the case: Mods: a lot of, FAR and DR included (without FAR you probably need to drop from surface of the Mun to achieve such speed). Way to recreate: 1) Build a rocket with just a capsule, solid fuel booster and 0.625m Main Chute 2) Launch vertically 3) Arm parachute at apoapsis (far above the atmosphere) 4) Wait until it deploys (40Km, ~1640 m/s) 5) Wait futher until chute starts to show some atmospherics FX (around 25Km, ~1660 m/s) 6) Watch in horror as your chute suddenly rotates around your ship and goes for the surface upside-down 7) ... 8) When speed decrease to a reasonable value - chute returns to normal position above vessel

You do not need to counter engine torque. You need to counter other forces, which will create roll moment if you gain forward speed. They are a result of different lift created by blades going forward and backward relative to aircraft speed (advancing and retreating respectively). They are called dissymmetry of lift and tail rotor won't help to counter them.

Coaxial rotors are good enough. It doesn't make much difference in translation to me If we understand each other - it's OK. If you throttle up without pitching and outer wings of your rotor SUDDENLY drop their lift force and pretend to be just plain bricks - there are only two explanations: steep Angle of Attack (aka stall) or breaking of sound barrier. Blades are fixed, so you can say for sure they go supersonic... Or something really unusual is happening And you can see lifting force by RMB clicking on wing (you have to zoom out or you'll get headache soon trying to read anything from rotating blade). But it is hard to achieve supersonic speeds with 2-3 part blades and these engines near surface of Kerbin. You need either longer blades or more powerful or wider placed engines.

Yes they do. Since it is impossible to create a properly working swashplate assembly even with mods, you need to compensate gyroscopic precession (less) and dissymmetry of lift (more) of one rotor. Or you'll be literally bound to small circle above launch pad. Believe me, this is no fun, as you can't break out of circle even with powerful SAS Counter-rotating rotors allow to get rid of both problems. Well, B9 TFE731 is only engine powerful enough to make lift with those rotor things AND weight less enough to not jiggle spring joints in bearings. And those engines are not going to eat through your liquid fuel reserves in seconds... Also, since you have to use Infernal Robotics Docking Washer (free moving ones, it is important!) as a bearing for axis, you surely can use Hinges to tilt whole rotor assemblies (better not - hinges tend to break under load) or small Rotatrons to change AoA of rotor blades (but blades tend to go supersonic at outer parts, so you can end with lose of lift and stall). It is easier to tilt whole craft with SAS than use special motorized joins though.

Ferram, i want to thank you for your mod! Actually, i even managed to remember my login and password for this... Without your aerodynamic model this... thing... would never become airborne!