Hooligan Labs
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Posts posted by Hooligan Labs
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In celebration of Scott Manley doing an episode on the submarine mod, I added the ability to plant flags underwater!
And of course Scott's video:
Submarine gallery page made!Great!
My submarines suck, it just hangs upside down in the water.You need more ballast on the bottom!That's now in the FAQ too, as linked on the first page.
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My suggestion to anyone that is having issues...
1) The Ballast slider increases weight! Ballast makes you sink. Setting the slider to 0% makes you float as much as possible!
2) Are you not using the latest 1.0.0 version from Kerbal Space Port? If you are not, try copying the fresh new version in.
I created a small submarine (mk2 cockpit with rover wheels and a sub part), I got deep enough (riding from the cockpit), and as soon as I switched out, the camera was stuck inside the cockpit, and all camera movement was blocked. I right clicked the cockpit from the inside and toggled the underwater camera but it did nothing.
Not sure if you were actually using the Mk2 cockpit...
But I was able to drive in while using IVA and then press C to come back out just fine.
You may have to share a screen shot.
Curious, are there any new airship envelopes in the works?Sorry, no. Indie Speed Run first.
Mind if i offer a few screenshots of my first sub?I even put the cool B9 lights as warning lights when I reach -500m
Nice! How did you do that?
Yay! More images for the wiki!Now my only question is if I should just make one gallery page or do a separate one for the subs...
Separate please! Thanks!
I slapped a single ballast tank onto a carrier and it floated the same way it always has. I did see the ballast info your plugin adds on the right-click menus for parts, though. Don't quote me on this but I believe InfiniteDice coded his own buoyance stuff for his carriers, so there might not be a problem.Whatever works!
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Ugh, now I need to learn how to animate things in KSP. Those engine mounts are just begging for animated vents and vectoring slats.
If it might help, you can check the source code for my airships (for animation) and SQUID (for emissions).
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Does the submarine mod play nice with InfiniteDice's Boat Parts? I'd love to have a submarine hanging from a crane on the carrier, though I'm not sure if the carrier will still float with the sub mod.
They might work together if the submarine and the boat were separate vessels. If they are one vessel, my plugin code will have to be copied to aircraft carrier (with a MASSIVE amount of buoyancy added!)
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For distance to ground underwater, I wonder if it would work to fire a ray downward that would return the distance to a terrain collider?
It would be nice if you would update your mods before putting 0.21 in the thread title.Is something not working?
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I'd say 600m is reasonable enough until the reasons why physics goes insane can be found.
I actually did find what seems to cause it in the documentation:
/// <summary>
/// The vertical distance in meters between the vessel and the nearest terrain (including buildings),
/// or -1 when sea depth is greater than 600m (terrainAltitude <= -600).
/// </summary>
public float heightFromTerrain;Does the SQUID part still work in 21.1?I haven't tested but I have no reason to know why it wouldn't.
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We would then have to get into a discussion as to what is a reasonable amount of depth. 600 meters = 60 atmospheres = 6000 kilonewtons per square meter. That is like having 4 Mainsail engines pushing in on every square meter on every side.
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Can you provide a link? I only see an equation for pressure.
This should be it: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Atmosphere
Oddly, it seems the equation pictures are broken. If you don't see them either we can contact their admin and I'll share my files where I copied them.
Sorry, I'm struggling to understand. What do you mean by "they", and whatever "they" are, what do you mean by "they are"??? "they are--" They are what?Air density is rather properly modeled, based on altitude. The effects of high pressure on hydrogen has been apparently called "the holy grail of high-pressure physics."
I should be able to tell definitively whether or not a hydrogen or helium balloon should truly float in the atmosphere of Jool.Cool!
Anyone else see this at the top of the page when they open this thread?I used to get it as well on several threads, but it mysteriously fixed itself one day. I use Chrome. Ask on the support thread?
After seeing this I knew what I had to do: Missile Submarine!And it works surprisingly well, thanks you muchly for the mod.
"I am liking submarine. Technology work good!" 21:35
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my latest vid showing off this awesome mod
Thanks a lot! I'm glad to know this mod is already worth showing off. I can tell you didn't use the latest "release" version because your ship did not implode at a depth of 600 meters.
I've put the link to this on the front page and added your video to the official wiki! I put in a request to Wikia to change the URL from hlairship.wikia.com to hlmods.wikia.com. Once that is done I will get stuff more organized.
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I think you should just bundle the airships and subs into one mod now that the sub code is kinda stable. They play well together.
Thanks, but I don't want to make a giant mod that contains things people might not want. It makes it easier to update too! Trying to manage too many parts means it's more likely to forget something.
Also, consider making some other hollow-looking stock parts have buoyancy. not 'controllable' boyancy, just buoyancy, like the pods.The only two parts I could see that could be possibly "upgraded" would be the Mk1 Fuselage and Rockomax Adapter?
Perhaps empty fuel tanks should become buoyant, because right now, it's still hard to make anything (with a submersible part) float without a ton of controllable submarine parts, which strictly shouldn't be necessary for a floating craft.The question is, why would empty fuel tanks become buoyant? Where would the "air" come from that would make them lighter? Tanks that we drop into the ocean now only float because they catch air on the way down.
Also there is the question of knowing how much air to put in. Even electricity is a resource that has density.
But non-controlled parts could work. No control = less weight?
I vote 1 wiki just because. Also would be possible to add a module bouyency to add floatiness to a part that is un kerbed? That would be very useful. Maybe have it accept negative values as well. The other useful feature I thought of was a center of bouyency for the VAB to help designing non flippy submarines. Excuse the unintelligible post. I hate my phone keyboard.I think I figured out what you were saying.
1 wiki it is.
Crewable modules that aren't crewed, like the Hitchhiker, are buoyant now. You can copy the module to another part to make it float too. By setting canControl = 0 and specificVolumeFractionBallast = 0 you can make a completely buoyant part, or specificVolumeFractionBallast = 1 will make it start full of water.
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W-w-w-wait. The KSP debug console keeps track of "blast awesomeness"? XD
Indeed it does, I think it is a function of the amount of explosive fuel. I once submitted to Challenging Youtubers that they have a challenge to make the largest explosion an EVA kerbal could survive, using "blast awesomeness" as the metric. Probably too complicated, though.
Well... Looks like I need to get back to updating the wiki with screenshots.Maybe Submarines should have their own wiki? Or it should be changed to to include all Hooligan Labs mods?
Eventually we want to get the link on this: http://wiki.kerbalspaceprogram.com/wiki/Addon
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New submarine update! Stable enough to call it "released" by my standards.
Version log:
1.0.0
- Resolved issue with vessels freezing at too much depth by... having them explode!
At 500 meters depth you will receive a warning.
Nothing will survive past 600 meters depth.
- "Control" ballasts (namely the ones included in this pack) will automatically give the vessel proper hydrodynamic qualities without first having to "activate" a stage.
- Parts will now explode when they hit the water at 10x ground impact speed, down from 20.
Let me know if you encounter any bugs!
Well, the metalic hydrogen layer on Jupiter is very deep and under extreme pressure and temperature. In KSP, any such layer on Jool would be well below the "surface" of Jool.And what you say about temperature and such is true... but it would be all the more awesome to actually have an airship on a gas giant. Especially since KSP does nothing yet to model the 170 m/s thunder storms the size of Earth.
Well, the wiki gives the density of the planet itself, not the atmosphere.Equations are provided for calculating density.
Anyway, I guess my point is that the densities the wiki gives for the planets are probably wrong, as they are using a poor set of assumptions, and are actually simply a measure of gravity and NOT density.And yet they are.
Excellent. I'll probably be ready to start my Laythe submersible missions in a month or two (I've gotta finish up my initial explorations of all the moons of Jool first).Post screenshots!
Honestly, in a lack of attention to detail by the part of the game devs, I wouldn't be surprised if the two atmospheres turn out to be the exact same density at the same pressure, which would be highly unrealistic in itself, but would probably mean that, if we take this to be correct, it is not unrealistic to have lighter than air, unheated balloons work on Jool.Nope. Check out my videos. Airships can barely float on Duna, but the tiniest envelope can lift a skyscraper on Jool.
There is something called the photic layer, I believe this begins around 150m where light from the sun cannot penetrate any further and everything is dark.I suppose you could assume any man-made light would be useless much before 150m. Except maybe the flash of a nuclear detonation or something similar. lol.
Fun stuff
Yeah I would love to model that, but I don't think I'm going to have the time.
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Hooligan, has any math been done to ensure that the balloons are a realistic size?
Much, if you read some of the older pages. If you want realistic lift then change the scale volume in the .cfg file to 1 (it is currently 40 except for the "real" Cirrus).
The material is near-future based as well, graphene aerogel. Not many other things could be as stretch, light and heat proof for interplanetary use.
Gas giants have atmospheres composed mostly of hydrogen, with the remainder made up of mostly helium. So your balloons would sink (not even able to lift the weight of the gas bag) or, at best, be roughly neutrally buoyant on Jool.The lift of the balloons is calculated by the ambient air pressure given by KSP. As you go deeper into an atmosphere it gets denser. Give the size of Jool, its lower atmosphere is positively soupy... Like the metallic liquid hydrogen hypothesized to surround Jupiter's core. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter
More density info and such for all planets is available on the KSP wiki. Of course, you have to make certain accommodations for scale, since most everything is ~1/10th the size of stuff in our universe.
Still working on graphics improvements for underwater. Failing that, I hope to soon upload some mechanics improvements that will make it more reliable.
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Quick complete log of issues I found while testing submarines:
- Collides with ground when restarting from tracking station ("lower to surface" issue). May resolve by now allowing landing while underwater, only "splashed".
- Buoyancy control did not start on a rover with no engines whatsoever. Had to add a useless Ant engine to get it to start. May resolve by having ballast tanks with canControl == 1 forceActive() at start.
Here is info for light penetration at depth: http://oceansjsu.com/105d/exped_briny/13.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abyssal_plain
only 44.5% of the surface light reaches a depth of 1 meter (3.3 feet)
22.2% of the surface light reaches a depth of 10 meters (33 feet)
0.53% of the surface light reaches a depth of 100 meters (330 feet)
0.0062% of the surface light reaches a depth of 200 meters
I'm not finding easy guides to how deep each color goes, but I think blue goes deepest, yellow half as f
Don't want to lose this... found code for making it darker as you go deeper.
http://answers.unity3d.com/questions/32007/change-ambient-lighting-over-time.html
Something like this...
LateUpdate () {
// Simple approach
RenderSettings.ambientLight = Color.Lerp (RenderSettings.ambientLight, Colors.black, depth);
// More complicated (might look wrong as underwater textures are already set to look... underwater? Also liquids on other planets would have different attenuations)
RenderSettings.ambientLight.b = RenderSettings.ambientLight.b/depth;
RenderSettings.ambientLight.y = RenderSettings.ambientLight.y/(depth * 2);
RenderSettings.ambientLight.r = RenderSettings.ambientLight.r/(depth * 4);
}Finally, fog. We could implement a linear fog based on the visible range at distance. http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/ScriptReference/RenderSettings.html
Unfortunately I'm not finding any data as to how far light travels depending on depth, it seems to be strictly due to sediment. So in theory even in the deepest water you could see far.
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Test update! Roving into the depths. Lower image quality than usual, this was done on my laptop.
First of all, setting out in a completely full rover.
Bill takes the crow's nest. Jeb is manning the sealed compartment just below.
Stopped before entering the water to save. This rover often lost traction and could not slow, so whenever I could I braked and saved just in case.
Rolling right into that water!
While going down the beach we went so fast we blew a tire. However, driving was actually much easier once underwater! After coming to a stop, one brave kerbonaut goes EVA to replace the tire.
Ladders work underwater!
Soon after this shot, check Jeb's "radar altitude", depth exceeded 700 meters.
Spirits were high among the other passengers!
The episode of Mythbusters ended and so did the journey here.
I was getting out the kerbonauts for a group shot when I went to the tracking station. Upon coming back, the rover exploded. Checking the log, I found that the parts had collided with the ground and each other. Will look into a fix.
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So, has anyone tried an amphibious submersible rover yet?
Indeed it works! I specifically modified the code to allow it. Be warned, those underwater cliffs are very steep.
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Do the Kerbals still die if they do EVA?
I think I've never had an EVA die while underwater, unless falling very very far. I did test switching vehicles and EVA and did not have any of them freeze in position (unless I had "Make Stationary" toggled on, and it could be properly disabled).
Maybe for extreme depths, I did not test that much?
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I put a ton of work over the weekend into updating the camera for the submarine so it moves in a more normal way. It still needs more work, but you can check it out and the source code: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/submarines-to-other-planets/
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Submarine update to 0.1.0! Download here!
Warning: This update may break submarines from previous versions.
Tip for using the sub included with the download: You can fly the sub like a rocket directly to the water. Adjust pitch by right clicking a ballast. I recommend reducing the top front's ballast. This will raise the nose and make the sub and, as the top is more buoyant, reduce its tendency to roll over.
Many new features!
- Significantly improved camera controls! No longer based on some weird rotating plane, should instead mostly be oriented "up" like normal camera controls in KSP.
- Depth control with target vertical velocity now works!
- Added two new ballast tanks: The 4x larger radial Atlantis and 6x larger Rockomax sized in-line Lemuria.
- Changed textures to blend better with gray spaceship parts.
- Water drag is now based on the vessel's normal atmospheric drag, should effectively double it. Overall, this significantly reduces drag on most parts compared to previous versions. Beware of "sinking like a stone".
- Water impact reworked. Parts explode when they hit the water at a speed exceeding their normal impact tolerance times a multiplier (currently 20). This is only checked on splashdown. Parts will not explode from going too fast while submerged. Overall, much less likely to explode when hitting or being in the water.
- Other tweaks and bug fixes I probably forgot.
Known bugs:
- When switching between underwater vessels the special underwater camera may not activate. The camera will appear stuck above. Right click a vessel's part and choose "Toggle Underwater Camera" to fix this.
- Depth control may try to adjust ballast while not underwater. This does not have much any effect since you cannot gain ballast while not submerged, but you have been warned.
- EVA does not have a working camera.
- Underwater camera control could use some more work.
- Still have not implemented underwater graphics effects.
Parts, not details. That was a mistake. I was thinking about somthing else then.Sure. Copy the module code from one of the ballast part.cfg files and paste it into a part of four choosing. You probably want to reduce the buoyant volume and add a line saying canControl = 0 (means it's not a ballast part).
If you don't want to take this step, and you want to be able to control how much you float or sink, you must first attach one of the ballast parts to your vessel.
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Super!!! Will it be possible to dive without any details from mod? Or maybe think about adding tiny and light detail for researching oceans of Eve. Kerbin and Laythe.
What do you mean by details?
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Thanks for the updates! Here are a couple notes...
I watched your video B and it's good to know that stuff sometimes get stuck, I will watch for it. If it happens again shoot me the output log. Good luck with your tower!
Yes, due to the amazing quality of water that it weighs 1 metric ton per cubic meter (it's like it was planned that way!) the m3 buoyancy exactly equals 1 ton of lift.
Teaser of new parts on my rocket sub. Still debuging, but I love this game.
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At the beginning of the last page you mentioned a rockomax sized inline tank? That would be pretty awesome for those of us who'd like to create sleek designs.
Priorities! But sure I can bump that up.
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There are too many posts to go through each one, but I'll just say I'm on the case.
- Lowering drag (and making it depended on the part, rather than a flat value).
- Water impact will make more sense.
- Better camera control.
- Better control all around (will it sink / float).
- Better underwater visuals.
It's cool it see the first working prototypes rolling out!
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I suspect even a 10m3 unit would be a huge help. The basic shape of the current unit is pretty good, so maybe just longer and a little fatter. I might see if I can make a reasonable model.
Sure! I can also do a 4x stretched radial, and maybe a simple Rockomax-sized inline.
Given time, that is.
Besides contributing models, anyone can help by:
- Finding script to do fog in KSP.
- Finding the ocean mesh and/or texture in KSP.
- Finding exact cases which cause subs get stuck or explode sometimes.
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