AngelLestat

You are wrong. First, you cant fragment something some big like Gilly, and even if you do, the fragments would joint again, and even if they dont, now you have several asteroid to divert, becouse it does not matter if you have small fragments than vaporize in the atmosphere, the energy is the same. The meteor that fall in russia vaporize at 23 km altitude. But the damage to the town was equal notice. Tunguska meteor also vaporize in the atmosphere, but it calcined 2154km2 of area, and this was only by a meteor of 80m diameter. Of course in a hollywood movies is more entertaining to solve any problem with explosions. But this is not the case.

Like some of you mentioned, it depends on time to launch the mission, asteroid mass, composition and time to impact. What I mean? If we found an asteroid that comes back every 20 years, but the next time that will pass near sun it would be in 10 years, but it would not hit, only the next time after 30 years will hit earth. Then if it has a mass of gilly "maybe" we can have a little chance to save us. And I am being very optimist, taking a really good plan with all world economic put in there for the first encouter and a high technologie progress for the next encounter. But if we need to stop it just in the first encounter. Then we are doom, even if we had the technologie advances of 70 years ahead from now. The amount of mass that we are talking about is huge.. The kinetic energy that carrys is incredible. The amount of energy in a nuke is nothing in comparison, and the efficiency of thrust in the right direction that you can get from the nuke is 0,1 to 10%. To increase efficiency you need to do a previus explotion to make a crater, then the crater would serve like nozzle for the next nuclear devices. Some of you said nuclear pulse, that maybe would be a better solution, but still is not enought. You have limit nuclear fuel, how many energy you need to move (gilly) 1.2420512×10^17 kg, lets said that you need 1 x 10^-10m/s of delta V to avoid the next encounter in 30 years, then with 10 tons of nuclear fuel over the asteroid with a nuclear pulse engine that has an ISP of 10000, you can get roughly approximate 1 x 10^-14 m/s in dV? correct me if I am wrong.. I am not totally sure about the dV requisites to avoid earth in a timelapse of 30 years. So any fuel that you can carry to the asteroid it would not help much. You need to use the same mass of the asteroid like reaction mass. For that reason know the asteroid composition is also very important. I always remember a book of arthur C clarke "light of other days", one of the aspects of the book talk about a huge asteroid that would hit the earth in 500 years from that time with not previous pass. In the book the people knew than even estimating techonologies advances in 500 years it would not be possible to divert it. That novel really open my eyes about the energy levels that huge objects can carry. I guess if we were in the same problem, maybe a solution would be try to move the earth instead in those 500 years.

i dont share this idea. There will be some craft design that only would serve for certain level of difficulty. If that happens then we cant share ship any more. People need to learn how to do it right from the first time. If is hard for them they can always get a little help from the debug menu to get more fuel. But if they wanna do it right, they need to learn sooner or later. And KSP is not about difficulty, is about what kind of desings we do. Someone with experience can send a really big ship to duna with full equip, and somebody noob will send only a pod with a kerbal. That is the difference, but also the first step. That would encourage him/she to do it better next time.

It seems that I need to clear something up in case you have not noticed yet. I know the things that I'm talking about! I am not a kid who saw a documentary and then start to talk making some asumptions of that. I am engineer and I love science, technologie and physics. I am susbcribe to 2 science news that I read "every day". Also when something call my attention I keep searching about that until I am totally sure that I am not missing nothing. I dont take any source for granted, If my common sense tells me that there is something wrong in some note that I read, then I keep searching. I hate to be wrong about something, or claim something that is not. I guess I share the science phylosofy in that. One year back I start to get interested a lot more in interstellar travel (I really knew many things by then), so I start search about that and keep note of some information, formules and links. I read like hundreds of papers of beamed propulsion, also some books. I also read a lot about other kinds of propulsions. One of the leaders from the Icarus project was very kind to spend some time with me discussing the feasibility of the Avatar ship, he also guide me with many studies and papers and help me to understand some things that was complicated for me in that time. Like what is the difference of a photon rocket with beamed propulsion. Why if you absorb gama radiation like heat and you redirect in a collimated way you get almost the 100% of that energy in thrust, but if you emit photons and this bounce in a sail you only get 2/c of the thrust. Well he help me to understand those things and many others. And if I found a problem like laser efficiency, accuracy, sail materials...Then I keep searching about breakthrough in those fields (optics, materials, etc) to see if something could solve those problems. One example, 2 days back some scientists found a way to make a perfect mirror. You know what this is mean? That you can scale up lasers without loose any efficiency. (between many other things). So now if you wanna do a claim or said that I am do not know what I am talking about, please make your own reasearch before and try to be sure. And I know the time that it takes for some technologies find practical uses in the real world. How I tell you guys many times, 5 years to graphene touchscreens and less than 10 years to graphene composite materials to airplanes and other kind of vehicles. We can take a bet in this if you want.. I would bet millons if I had. That is how sure I am. Becouse I know and I understand the real state of those technologies right now and the cost and manufacture time changes that require. I can answer you, but not every time that you are too lazy to check the thing that you are talking about. You know that we never actually testing in space a fullly functional artificial gravity device?? What it does mean?? It means NOTHING! We can build it werever we want. Is physics and we understand the principles the same way that we understand magnetic fields. And it would be pointless build one becouse we dont have ANTIMATTER. But like you said they will test a vasimr (kinda device) in the space station. And this device come with a "magnetic nozzle" the same main component of an antimatter thruster! And we need to wait until this magnetic nozzle (between many others) is test it to see what would happen or we can predict what it would happen taking like evidence all the thing that we know about magnetic fields and the millons experiments already made like the fusion Tokamak prototipe in europe, or the CERN that keeps and move hundreds of particless with incredible accuracy and then trap and move some of the antiparticles by manetic pipes to store them in a container all with magnetic fields. To get energy from antimatter you only need to put together matter with antimatter. There is nothing special about that. One more thing, antimatter reaction is not a Nuclear reaction. I am just answer you the bad asumptions or claims that you do. Like the ones that I dont know what I am talking about. But we can talk about gameplay wherever you want. But I am not talking about novel SF, that is the main difference. I am using facts and thing that we already know. And about CNT and graphene, maybe you know more than me that I check all the advances in that field almost every week. I am not asking for more blackbox that the game already use. The rocket engines calculates the chemical reactions between the oxidizer and fuel to calculate the thrust? Not. Is just a number set up that emule the reality. You need to point manually you solar panels to the sun? What would be the fun to keep track of the laser beam 4 years until you reach the star? But yes I plain allow movement of the sail near a star. But all this will be clear when I post the suggestion. But first I need to do some graphics to help in the understanding. I will post it next week. Calculation limit it does not have much to do with "gameplay rules" limits. If you understand what I mean. I hear Elon Musk talk about the airplane stage Idea, his team made some calculations and they conclude that is not worth it, but is a good method too. Why not? it changes everything. Why you would need heavy metal? You are creating imaginary problems. And if at certain heights you need some kind of covering to protect the cable, it would be only a covering. It would weight a lot less than the cable. Also all the payload weight is insignificant in comparison with the cable weight. Is like a huge suspension bridge bridge in comparison with the cars that needs to carry. About radiation and space debris why you dont search how this problems can be mitigated. And once more, the trade center fall becouse all the floor was on FIRE for 1 hour! SO all the pillar were weak for the heat. But if is economically viable is a very different thing that if is possible. We are talking if is possible. The first thing that I said was that I dont believe they built it taking into account the new materials weight in conjunction with skylon. We lost a bridge, but that chance never prevented to us to start build it in first place. We made our calculates and we considerer the risk. If we need it.. and the risk are aceptables. We build it.. That is with all the thing that we do. We would not had any advances otherwise. But a hell less usefull too. And when I talk about space elevator, or when companies talk about space elevator, they talk to start the construction in 2040. That is totally feasible at least from the physics point of view.

well after the forum migration here we are. Was already discover using a CERN software to emule particles, that is posible to build a magnetic nozzle of 1.5 meters and 12 Tesla (something that we can build with to day technologie) to get a efficiency of 69% (this also mean max speed 0.69c). We dont have it yet, what is the point? we dont have antimatter to test it XD, but there is nothing special in make a antimatter nozzle, if it were, then Vasimr project would be doom from start. Really? i find the other day in spaceport a mod that add a new time warp system, that ignores physics. And you were not so sure if that would was possible some days back, dont you? The engine is not the limitation, what a engine does is take some values and then calculate physics and make the graphics. You can see how many games that engine has and how different they are from each other. But well, lets see if you are right when I will post it. He under estimating at first, but he do it anyway. And in a short time maybe he would become in the most important space company. Economic crisis? for who? if you dont want a very obvious answer, then do not make the question. Note it.. lets see. I told you, to day tensile measures about carbon nanotube are double of the needed to build the space elevator with a safe margin. And the theorical limit of CNT is 5 times the requirements. A airplane is not a problem, what it would be the problem? Even the world trade center pillar remain like nothing after the crash, was the "heat" the thing that melt the pillar with posterior collapse. But CNT do not melt, and its sublimation point is higher than 4000K, is not flamable and hundred of times stronger than steal. So.. make the calc. It would cut in half any airplane. Using your same argument against zubrin.. Liftport company wants to build a moon space elevator But about the chain reaction, yes, is the bigger issue right now. And the michael laine study is based in how strong need to be the cable to avoid that. But... there is ways to mitigate that problem without extra strenght margin. One way is plain cable, like you saw in almost all videos. The chance of chain reaction in that is almost none. But it can has other issues. But there are different ways to weave the cable to avoid that. (I cant find the different example images of that weave, I will post it later). So using different way to weave the cable at different heights you will have a way to solve that problem. "Rough", very rough.. The space elevator has hundred of papers and detailed schematics drawings.

You said that some things are not possible for X reason, I prove you that your X reason are wrong and then you said that we are not here to disccuss that. Haha, great dodge. However to admit a bad assumption, is something that will never happen. If we are not here to discuss that then try to not make wrong claims to prove your points. We have the technology to make antimatter thrusters (at least with 70% of efficiency or less). But the thing that is missing is the key ingredient. Antimatter. How to gather, how to storage it and the last problem is security, all that energy in one place and time is not something good. But the problem is that you are ignoring his words only becouse he can be emotionally comprimise. But that is not reason enough to not check his claims. What he said sound very logic. I try to search some responce from Diaz and nothing. Or some info that will nulify Zubrin critics.. I personlly I believe that Vasimr will be a great technologie in the furute. But not now. Or we need to wait until we can send a entire city to go mars? Baby steps. But I am with you that will not add much a manned mission to mars.. But is inspiring..and that is what we need to day. We dont have a manned mission since 1972. They did a lot of those with that technology. What is our excuse? Wait wait wait... somebody seems to misintepret something. I read like 3 pages back to see what I answer you and what you answer me.. and I dont find nothing wrong. I guess you really misinterpret my comment. I never said that you dint know the rocket equation, I was very clear (i guess, english is not my native language either) "if something WE learn" And about bitch i was talking about Tsiolkovsky equation. So please read again becouse I can not understand your reaction. And why we cant ignore physic calculation when we have a constant acceleration? The things break when we had a change in acceleration. Of course. you remove a little of realism. But with that excuse then, why we have time warp? It will not be more accurate to wait like the kerbal does 400 days until reach laythe? Was not you the one who said gameplay before realism? It does not need to be perfect. We can made a space elevator even with the 50% of the tensile strenght of CNT. And almost all the bridges are made it with materials very close to their limits. Space debris like you said is a real problem. Atmospheric crash are not a problem, even an airplane traveling at match 5 it does not represent a problem to the cable. and not.. You dont need to rise the main diameter from the begining. First you rise a very thin cable roll, using a common rocket, and passing geo orbit you attach the cable to an asteroid (if it has ice better), you put some solar panels in the asteroid to power some thruster that will use the same ice like propelent to compensate any force that you need. The cable fall to the earth, you secure it, and then you rise other cables with a robot climber until you had the diameter that you want. I dont know how is the procedure to construct something like Launch-loop. I know the system but I never found any detailed plan of how to do it. In my opinion seems a lot more difficult than the space elevator. After all, is like a roller coaster of 80 km high. Kegereneku, Idobox, Rar Jar. About magnetic shield, I guess there is some cosmic particles that is not so easy to shield from them. We unknown their source. But their are not a big problem becouse there are not so much of them. But a magnetic shield helps a lot against particles floating in the space, if we travel at relativistic speeds they can be a problem. Also against radiation comming from the sun or big planets like jupiter. The cable it does not need to be heavy Idobox, it can be very light and big. And yes.. when you put a current in the loop you will not waste almost any energy in that. In fact, if you are traveling to high speeds, the space dust that is deflected by the field, will charge the cable with more energy. This energy can be used in the ship to sustain with excess all the requeriemients that you need. This produce a force in opposite direction by drag. For that reason magnetic sails are the best option to be used like brake. You can brake from 0.95c to 0.0054C in 2 years without using any propellent. Is the same reason why the bussard ramjet would not work. http://crowlspace.com/?p=13 Ah.. it was Zubrin the first to mention the use of magnetic sails Also the paper that Kegereneku publish about magnetic field, is from Geoffrey Landis, he works in the Niac too, and he has a lot of cool ideas. He work in many nasa projects. I told you, "Head" Tennis racquets, filters, many kind of sensors are one of the things that are already in sale to the public. Of course companies can not change from one day to another all their infrastructure to improve their products, is not cost effective. It takes some time. But is already here and can be done.

I am new with KOS, but I really like how much it promise this tool. Right now I am looking a way to land my liquid boosters at target location (spacex style) 2 at the same time, but I dont know how :S Kos is great becouse it allow you to have more than 1 autopilot to the same time. But I was wonder, There is not a way to activate mechjeb programs? MechJeb already has a lot of programs who can save us. If we can not fire programs of mechjeb, there is someone transcripting some of the mechjeb codes to KOS? Also It will be nice to see a site with different script programs made by users.

Hey Idobox, you need to change your news source, it has 10 years of delay. First, To day there are companies that sale PERFECT samples of 10mm x 10mm to be used in studies, I also read even bigger perfect sheets made. But now (i mean some years back) there is a new method to produce graphene called Chemical Vapor Deposition CMD. With this method (is a lot cheaper) they already made sheets bigger than 1 square meter. In fact there is not limit to how big it can be. Is not a perfect single layer. But they found than graphene it does not need to be perfect to keep they amazing properties, even with flaws these sheets keeps the 80% of their qualities. http://www.zmescience.com/science/physics/graphene-strength-cvd-0306201/ http://web.ornl.gov/adm/partnerships/events/Dec_Spark/Speight_Graphene%20v5.pdf http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20130306-bend-and-flex-for-mobile-phones University in South Korea showed it was possible to create roll of metres of the material, and demonstrated it on touch-sensitive tablet screens. And since then Sony has built a machine that can create rolls of the material 100m long About carbon nanotubes you can made sheets like the one that I post 2 pages back that are real big, of course is not a perfect carbon nanotube, but their properties are close. But if you want a perfect long carbon nanotube then it is half meter. And they had a 99,5 % of chance to produce them. http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/265310-worlds-longest-carbon-nanotube-276-times-steel-s-tensile-strength.html Also they already know techniques to joint these samples in perfect way. So is time to everyone open they eyes, CNT and Graphene are already here. We know many products that use CNT, but also there is many products on sale that use graphene. Like tennis racket, filters, sensors, etc. In 5 years into the future we will see many graphene products, like touch screens,CCD for cameras, earphones, supercapacitors, etc. In 10 years from now would will start to see some airplanes or cars made of composites materials using graphene and tons of other products. Right now they increment by 5 or 10 times the tensile strenght of metals using only a 0,00004% of graphene with the CVD method. http://www.tsunster.com/graphene-makes-copper-500-times-stronger/ I dont see many future in that aplication, I read 3 years back about a similar idea with more benefics in my opinion. http://www.gizmag.com/et3-vacuum-maglev-train/21833/ How is vacuum it can reach velocities about 6500km/h and it is very efficient from the energy point of view. But all these methods needs a huge investment, I mean, you need to start build all the circuit from zero. And is not cheap. Why made that if we can had ways to fly (without a particular destination) using electric airplanes with superconductor motors that will be very light and efficient in the same time scale than the first 200 km of hiperloop circuit would be made. Agree, but there is nothing bad to talk about far future addons.

Yes I can, and with evidence. Properties of CNT or Graphene are very good detailed, is the science branch with more funding on the world right now. You know how much time it took to plastic or silicon extend over the world? Well is stimated than graphene revolution will happen even faster, Why? Becouse graphene compare with any other material is like superman vs ordinary man; and is carbon, so is cheap. Even right now graphene cost is even less than silver or platinum. About the heat, Carbon by itself and all their by-product had the highest sublimation point of all elements and remains solid at higher temperatures than the highest melting point metals such as tungsten or rhenium. Is documented than graphene sublimation point at vacuum is about 6000K. So I dont feel stupid at all... you should google some thing a little more before make some asumptions. One more thing, even if you limit your max working temperature to 3000K, with a very very BAD reflection (lets said 90%) then you can have a sail that can stand without problem more than 50 Megawatt by m2. This is enought to survive over a few km over the Sun surfice. But if you have a sail with melting point at 600K like the sunhammer (that are only for testing purpose) then your limit energy density is thousands of times less. This is becouse the Stefan-Boltzmann Law about radiation. But he does not care if Vasimr gets funding or not! You are missing the whole point of his critic. The goverment is using vasimr like an excuse to not go to mars and he is against that. Obama said than they can not go to mars until vasimr technologie is develope, and he prove with tons of evidence that is a total lie. And Diaz is saying the same lies. Well you will be happy then, all these without brake the gameplay. But you have to accept one thing, if we learn something about KSP is that the rocket equation is a bitch when we are talking about higher speeds. And the only way to skip that equation is with beamed propulsion. (Well we can have antimatter, but that will nulify all common rockets.) I am agree that the space elevator it will no adds gameplay and it will have problem (maybe) with the engine. But... Space elevator is basically imposible?? ehh? Even a japanese company made the announcement in 2012 to build an space elevator by the 2040. Why? becouse the technology that makes that possible is already here. I personally I dont think that is cost effective make a space elevator, this taking into account the skylon using the same light materials to make the space elevator, it will reduce the cost launch to almost the same amount. But is totally possible, there are even plans of how face each step of its construction and how solve all their difficulties. So put the FTL and space elevator in the same sentence it does not have many sense to me.. We are no talking about exotic matter or black hole densities or break like 5 or 6 physics rules. Agree. But if i will had only 3 wishes it will be: -Better aerodinamycs and meteorology. -Airships -Extra time warp mode than ignores structure physics under low accelerations.

What? Beam sail with fusion thruster?? supraconductor magnet? Can you clarify this? You dint see the last scott manley video? Why it need to overpower the engine? That is how it should be! He is not a random folk claiming that the LHC will destroy the world with none evidence. He is Zubrin.. And he show very strong evidence that nobody come out to contradict. If someone said something that is not true, I come out to point it with evidence.. "you know me", and if someone is challeging my own ideas.. with more reason I will defend it. So why Diaz is not doing this? And I am not saying that is not possible, it will take some time, maybe 10 or 15 years more to develope vasimr. But not qualify for a near mars mission like Zubrin say. Why I need to reply that again? In that topic I answer and answer each critic that you did and you choose ignore all. I never read from you "yes you were right in this" And you do assertions all the time even when is the first time that you think about something. Example: "is not possible" "this will never happen" "warp drive is true", etc. No ever the most genius make those kind of assertions. But you are right in one thing, I never explain exactly how can be added to the game. With details and improving the gameplay. I will try to do it this weak if I find time. And you will find also the answers for that last topic that you say that I never reply. One more thing: all the questions that you make.. I think that you already know the solutions for the most of them. But I guess the only thing that you want is try to convince others that is a bad idea, just becouse you dont like it. I like the way that he did the fussion drive.. but only that.

Sorry I had problems posting, it does not make spaces between lines. "i fix it"

Why is a big deal? if they could make 2 different time warp, one that calculates structure, thrust and gravity, and the other calculate only gravity. Why they cant make a time warp that calculates gravity and thrust? And we all know that the structure physics is the one that eats all the processing time. I dont follow you. what is the problem with isp variable? if you choose low thrust your isp is high, if you choose high thrust your isp is low. Spiral trajectory? But he is right on that, the goverment is using VASIMR like an excuse to not go mars. (but they dont have problem in waste money in a war against syria), you can figure out, all the important missions are kicked to after 2020, so that the next administration will have to take care of that. And if you know his story you will know that he is in its right to be angry. To the ones who does not saw it, here a nice documentary about this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDWvsdEYSqg Zubrin did very good points against VASIMR, one is that they need a power source of 200Mw with a mass ratio of 1000w per kg, but we can make only 30w per kg. Superconductive magnets at high temperature, In contrast, after 30 years of research, the VASIMR has only obtained about 50 percent efficiency. If someone want read the full critic: http://www.spacenews.com/article/vasimr-hoax I am not saying that VASIMR is not possible, I think that is possible and will be a good addition to our possibilities. But it will take 15 years at least to develope. But looks good for the game, it will be nice a engine with variable electrical thrust. Of course in a higher tier. You dont need to carry fuel, engines, etc. You have INFINITE ISP with Sails. With a timewarp mode that ignores all structure physics meanwhile the acceleration is low, then what is the problem? You can use a beam to push your sail (it does not need to be big) if your payload is big, or you can pass near the sun, and you will have all the speed that you need to carry big payloads to Jool. Read my previous post about to day solar sails. I guess you are confusing about how much a Solar Sail can offer with good materials. Look this for example: This is a carbon nanotube sheet, it weights less than 0,01g/m2 and resist 4000K and is very strong. But it needs to be reflective, is a manufacture process that for now they can only do at very small scales. But we already had dielectric materials, that is almost as good than carbon nanotubes. There are all electrical propulsion systems, one way or another you will always had: low thrust --> high isp, high thrust --> low isp. So in game terms, it will be nice start with Ion engines (with real values) and then in high tier use something like Vasimr.

Ok ok, my bad. It seems that I misunderstood many things. I can swear that I saw a animation where it seems like the oxigen enters in the tanks. And I read many times that the best benefic was avoid to carry with all the oxigen. And the fact that they need to cool it so much, led me to think that was to liquify it (the only way to gather). I never thoght that was to avoid high temperatures that would melt light materials, so if they use materials resistant to these temperatures the engine would be very heavy. Well in that case, I take it back. B9 did a good job. sorry. In this page talks about this. http://www.gravityloss.com/2010/10/why-precool-but-not-liquify-skylon-and-sabre/ And they point that the system is very similar to a LACE system. But with the new materials that we are testing right now in laboratories, it would be possible to make in 6 or 7 years an engine with high temperature resistence and very light. Yeah, that concept is similar to a magnetic sail. But it works best for brake than for propulsion. That is in the case that they use the same material than sunjammer for a interstellar sail. But this materials are just for testing purposes. to test maneuvers, forces acting on the sail, etc. They use Kapton for the sail. It has a weight of 31 g/m2. This is A LOT for sails. Also they temperature resistence is only 600K. Right now we can use dielectric materials instead, who has 99,9999% of reflector coefficient and is a lot lighter too (aprox 3g/m2 it depends on the dielectric that you use), its temperature resistence is 1500K. With this material in a close fly by near sun to reach max speed it would reach more than 10000 km/s, meanwhile the kapton sail will reach a maximun of 10km/s (guessing). We can also use carbon nanotubes, in this case the sail will weight less than 0,1g/m2, the temperature resistence it would be close to 4000K. This sail will reach from 5 to 10% light speed in a close fly by near the sun. (of course with a very light payload) So with this material a beamed interstellar ship does not need to be big, it can be 50mx50m or 1000mx1000m, becouse you can focus all the power that you want without melting, in case of the kapton you need a lot more area to distribute the power and with 31g/m2 this mean a lot of total mass, so more power needed and more area. So try to compare the potential of solar sails with the current test projects is like try to make the Skylon of wood and say that it would never be usefull. He does some good critism, but well, we need to take into account that his criticism is based in the current studies and materials.

Sorry, but nobody was talking about what is OP or not. The real sabre engine gather oxigen meanwhile is in atmosphere to be used later when they change into rocket mode. That is the real key of efficiency from sabre engine. It does not need to carry the oxigen for the rocket mode, only H2, and the fact that can use a normal jet engine to reach some altitud and match 5. About the intakes stack, aerodynamics and meteorology models, the nerva (using oxidizer) and many other things that are not yet completed in KSP. We can said like the same developers say. They are not really in game yet. And high tier technologies without a career mode, removes all the fun to use them. I also use the fuel mod, the problem that for nerva engines with static dry mass of tanks, is not accurate.

aww sad... it seems that if your post is larger than 5 lines, nobody read it :S They are?? I just see an engine with a crazy isp and a way to operate that it has nothing to do with the real sabre engine. If someone add a sabre engine to the game, then at least they need to have into account how you start to harvester oxigen meanwhile you are in atmosphere. Is like add hot air or helium ballons wihout any similitude or principles that rules the real ones. "Hooligan Labs" I support the effort to try to incorporate these additions to the game, but do not confuse, there are not in the game yet. Well I guess now you need to hear the bad things.

About the EmDrive seems fraud. This would violate the principle of conservation of momentum. In the case of Vasimr, looks promising. But its principles and practical studies are a lot less tested than Solar Sails. Robert Zubrin said that it will not be much better than ION drives, and this take my attention becouse he is a really good scientific. One way or another, I guess Vasimr and Solar Sails will become in the future of space exploration. This important step will be made noticeable within 5 to 7 years, which is the time where the new carbon composites derivatives from graphene or CNT will be used more often. In case of Vasimr will solve a lot of problems about the high temperature needed and improving the magnetic nozzle. But I guess the best benefic would be seen in Solar Sails, where the themal resistence and low weight are the most important factors. There are already studies of how to make a sail using CNT, with the instruments imprented in the same sail and one antenna for comunication in the focal point (sails act like parabolic reflector), this will reach aprox 8% of light speed without extenal source, just passing near the sun. And if reach some star, it can brake using the same technique. And this values can be improve it if they found an easy way to make graphene reflective. So about the implementation in KSP. I say yes.. And these new technologies would not need any bonus in their thrust. The same for Ion engines, now Ion engines in KSP has high thrust but low isp than the real live. This is becouse we can not leave the engines on when we use time warp. But that is the problem, the time warp! What if we have a different time warp for this kind of technologies? We do not need calculate structure physsics with low thrust. And in the case of Ion, Vasimr or Solar Sails it will be nice if we can set to keep a prograde value meanwhile is in time warp (or keep an angle to the sun in the solar sail case). Of course when we pass near to a planet or sun, the time warp will decrease. But all these technologies in their respective tier, like skylon.

I dont know if i can say that this movies inspire me to play ksp, but this are the space movies that i like: mission to mars red planet space odyssey avatar europa report apollo 13 contact

Let's get something clear, because as you wrote it, sounds confusing. There are only 2 different foces that we need to take into account in atmosphere and only 1 in orbit. Atmosphere: Drag and Acceleration Orbit: Acceleration. Acceleration is a vector, is the add of all accelerations forces such as gravity, centripetal force, acceleration due engine thrust, etc. Drag is also a vector, are usually forces opposing to the movement I think that we can have different modes or time warp modes, where some accelerations or drag values may be ignored.

This is similar to what I suggest in the "hibernation instead warp drive" topic, I said that there is not point to calculate all the physsics if there was a constant acceleration (this was to solve the problem of high time warp with constant acceleration) You only need to calculate for the fist instant like Kyarao said and then take the whole ship like rigid in case that first instant pass the test. But I dont think that this can be apply it inside the atmosphere, because the drag is not constant.

To day the "go advance" bottom it does not show the bar tools.. weird. You will have Time warp, in one way or another... Second it would not be multiplayer, and even if it is, what is the matter?? It will no change your control, no matter what system you select. Because the time is local to each system. And even if you go back the time never will precede your time in kerbol. Is what it is?? where are you going with that? That was an example, but some news, you will not go to the center in the galaxy in ksp. I dont think that you or squad had time to explore or create 300000000000 stars systems. So I dont understand you, because from one side you said that you dont wanna waste time in create an infrastructure to interstellar travel, and now you said that you dont have problem in create a infrastructure for FTL.. Is confusing. Maybe you have the wrong idea of what I am suggesting. Like Kegereneku, even when i told him many times how it would be, he still points to the old sail idea of 40 years back with materilas and technology from that time. Answer you: not.. i dont like WOW, and I never play that. It does not matter, what it matter is that similar size satellites or ships gets higher delta V in reality than in KSP. And in the early KSP versions, ion trusters was totally pointless. But how I said, it has to be with the timewarp mode. Wormholes are in the same category than alcubierre drive, even if those are "possible", we would need a techonoly level far away our imagination. And you cant have wormholes from one side and normal rockets in conjunction. But well, you can play mass effect or many other titles if you wanna experiment with this. And I dont see the fun on it.. You just cross it. Where is the adventure, the travel ? And you can have one of those in each planet. But is not my duty to prove that something is not possible, it is yours convince me with evidence to support it is. Following your example, I could say that I can go to other star in a carriage pulled by unicorns. Now you try to prove that this is impossible. You cant. This mean that is possible? Is not the same. I already said to alamo, to find that source.. Now I ask you to find it too, then post the link with the quote where it said the things that you are claiming. when I said something that contradicts arthur c clarke? really? Is not the same accept that we dont know how the future would be, than "claim" that something it would be like we thoght. Arthur said that, we cant claim nothing about the distant future. This is for me, and for you. We can have good approaches if we know physsics like Arthur did so many times do, proyecting knowledge into a 50 years future. Why I need to tell them, they knew that, is the way that they did those discovers. Step by step. You think Einstein could discover its relativity theory without Maxwell equations or the other millons of pre discovers needed to accomplish that? We are not so intelligent like we thoght, we discover things by error or follow little steps from the cavern man to now. Without culture, we are not much more intelligent than a wolf. Like the example of people who was raiced by animals. I guess you are asking too much xd In some time maybe he add another star system, and in the future with multiplas updates, maybe we will have 4. Now try to put in perspective how you will like to explore those 4, with instant travel or ftl? or with different ways than any other game. And take into account that less star systems, means more details or things to explore in them. If they are just spheres in the space, what is the point?

my biased summary of kegereneku post: Ignore all the things metioned by kegereneku given his lack of knowledge, comprension and logic. I already proved that he was wrong on every thing he said or he thought in my previous post. And the fact that he continue saying nosense and twisting each sencente with lies and ignorence is the proof that is not a rational being XD Discuss with him is a lost of time.

Ok. let's go back to the point of this discussion thread. I think the main problem here is lack of knowledge about how much has to offer serius concept of interstellar propulsion. And the fact that light speed limit can be an advantage instead a barrier. How much would we take to travel to the center of the galaxy "27000 ly"? -With relativity at 99,999% light speed aprox 70 years. -With imaginary FTL at 100c it will take 270 years. And if you close more and more to the light speed you will reach a point that you will do it in just weaks. Of course the earth time lapsed it will be still 27000 years. First, the ion drives thrust is higher than normal just because we can not have any engine "on" in the time warp designed by squad. But you will notice that you burn xenon gas a lot faster than in real live. So is the same! So if we had a different timewarp mode for some kinds of propulsions where structure physics is not taken into account then it would be no need to modify ion engines. In fact you can reach higher delta V with ion engines in real live than in KSP. Also you are wrong about how it will be incorporate real propulsion system in ksp. Yes! it will be a "little harded" than build an space station. But once you have all set up, then you can use it for any amount of travels that you want. And in the case that you dont wanna waste time in infracstructure needed, then you can download your favorite save file according to your tastes. And is not only to probes!! Of course your first mission it will have a lot more of sense if you do it with probes. But if you want you can expand your collector and send kerbals. Also we already need to set up a big infrastructure in space to send a manned mission to laythe, and the mission time it is like 4 years. But it seems that you want a mission frame of 1 years without any infrastructure to send kerbals to other stars.. IS CRAZY!!! Agree, but if they use those examples in benefic of FTL idea, then we can use thousands of examples where similar ideas (like FTL now) was claimed and prove wrong later. So we dont go anywhere following this path. seriously? star trek a grand vision?? Of course, it can be entertaining and inspiring , like those tight outfit that the womens use But if you wanna see "true vision", you need to read Arthur C Clarke, or Larry Niven, or Robert Forward, etc. Even when I was little (8 years old ) I knew that star trek was not accurate at all with real science. In case of Arthur C clarke you will see that anything that he wrote in 1950, was very accurate with 2000, and so go on. Why?? because he was a scientist, and he based his novels on real science. Even 2001 space odysey was a lot more accurate then than to day hollywood movies. A discuccion only has sense if we talk about things that we know, the technology is like a ladder, we can add one step if we have the one below. But we cant talk about a step at 300 meters high if we dont have any idea how would it be the middle steps to reach there.

Is still you who does not understand the causality principle or some relativistic effects. You understand all wrong. In that sentence I was not talking about multiverses... I was talking only about the technology advance that you need to make something like warp drive a possibility, and giving that technology level it will change all the things that we know, our vehicles, tools, culture, etc. in way so far of our imaginations. So there is no possible to have warp drive for one side and normal rockets or things that we know in conjunction. And if you like so much all the nosense, then you have the debug menu option "alt f12" to turn off the gravity, collisions, infinite fuells and all the things that will make the game fun (in your opinion)

Really? that is your link? It does not said NOTHING about your claim. It said: "This web site focuses on the propulsion related issues, explaining the challenges of interstellar travel, existing propulsion ideas, and the possibilities emerging from scientific literature that may one day provide the desired breakthroughs." First, is just a website, second it does not said nothing about warp drives researchs. Keep trying, when you find a source, post the link and dont forget to quote the text where it mention the things that you are claiming. Ah of course, that was a really hard assumption in that time.. or not? We already had communications satellites, we had woki tokis, soldiers at war use big radios (of course they need power to transmit the signal very far, not like now with millions antennas). Additionally if you have a communication devides it will be a good assumption to use it with your hand, like all other tools that we have. But taking that only "hit" between hundreds of fail assumptions, then it must be enough evidence to said that warp drive would be true First, things can be measure, so there is not bad interpretations. But lets said that if for someone the bomb explotes and from a different point of view it does not. Then the universe split in 2 new temporal path, so we would have almost infinite universes taking each case and choices. It can be.... it does not have any logic, but lets said that is like that. Then to make warp drive a feasible idea, you need to break 5 more laws and all the technical problems. Good luck with that But lets assume that you can break all the laws. This mean that you are in a technology level where everything can be possible. Where we left our corporeal shape behind, to become something beyond the understanding. Then we can cross from universe to universe, and we have different ways to accomplish all our needs. This mean that maybe it will be pointless to travel using warpdrives. Maybe there is not reason to travel then. So all becomes magic and nosense from our point of view. So it will be boring as hell because we dont have any common ground to relate it with the live we know. One more thing. We can find FTL in all space games, is nothing new. But you can not find any real interstellar propulssion system in any game. And KSP already choose the real physics path. Where all the rocket sicience can be applied to what we real do in KSP.

Quantum entanglement not violate causality. The effect seems to be instant, but you can not use it to communicate usefull information. And here is the key, the information is the one that has problem with the speed of light. But well, information is almost everything, 1 atom is information, becoz it has a position x-y-z, spin and electrons. communicate information. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No-communication_theorem http://www.phys.vt.edu/~takeuchi/relativity/notes/section10.html The fact is that you dont really need huge sails or lens to focus. In Robert Forward`s idea (1980) he use really big sails and focus lens because he use aluminum. Now there is new materials like dielectricts or carbon nanotuves sheets who bring miracles improvementes. The sail it does not need to be big with today materials. The only purpose to make a sail big would be linked to the problem of aim. But we are talking about 0,5 or 1 km sail. And to make fusion rockets a posibility in the game, we would need to forget that bussard ramjet is not feasible (more drag than propulssion), and incorporate to the game with some bonus parameters to at least acomplish 0,4c and the chance to use it as brake. This will keep the balance with the game, because we can said that bussard ramjet only would work for speeds fasters than 0,05c. Having that in mind, can not be used to in-system transfers. So the balance remains. I have a challenge for you. Try to find the source of that information