capi3101

As far as the wings are concerned, I've learned that you can't really be afraid to make bi-planes or tri-planes, and to keep it to no more than two wings attached end to end (see my screenie of the Auk VIII above). You strut the two wings together, strut the near wing to the fuselage, and run one strut from the fuselage to the end of the far wing. When you stack them up into bi-plane and tri-plane configurations, you run a strut between near each wing layer near the far end (that way the wings flex the same and don't collide with one another during flight, which as with most things in the game is generally a Bad Thing). Ram Intakes are what you want to stick to; they bring in the largest amount of air. Air is good - the more you can bring in, the higher the operational ceiling of your jets; the higher the operational ceiling of your jets, the later you have to light your rockets; the later you have to light your rockets, the more delta-V they'll have once you're finally in space.

About how many entries are there now? Forty or so? I'll have to start in on test flights soon - otherwise I may just base my decisions on aesthetics...

Used my Gilly lander (designed to conduct the transfer from Eve to Gilly and come back to Eve) on test runs to Mun and Minmus for science. Snagged over 1800 science between the two missions - a very successful run indeed. Just have another nine techs to go unlock the entire tech tree (the ones that are left are the ones for large spaceplane and rover parts, and ion engines - and I'm not counting the extra one that KAS throws in there to unlock the Electromagnet).

Claw's beat me to it as far as the general basic guidelines - so I guess I'll post some screenies to prove that yes, it can be done, and hopefully to provide some inspiration: ...those are two different planes; apparently I don't have any other screenies of the Auk VIII (aside from the one of it landing successfully at the Runway). The bottom two are pics of the Auk VII, a slightly lighter but still viable heavy spaceplane. Claw helped me get both of them into space so I'd definitely take his advice if I were you.

A Starbucks. Because one will wind up there eventually anyway... In all seriousness, it depends on what you want the station to do. Turning it into a refueling outpost is a practical thing you can do with it. I wouldn't necessarily suggest a sci lab there if it's over Kerbin but one might make sense for a station around another world. If it's decorative, I'd go to town on it (though mind your part count). All of the above suggestions are good.

Redesigned the components of my Gilly science mission and launched them to orbit; everything made it up though the transfer stage was touch-and-go there towards the end. Needs moar struts if I decide I need to redesign that bit, which I'm considering since I missed a few of the experiments when I set up the action groups. As for the lander portion, a test run to Minmus might not go amiss.

Well...lemme plug that in real quick then: Mainsail in the core, Skippers on the boosters, 44.55 payload. Orange tank per stack. I come up with a 385.1875 tonne rocket that has 4,491.258 m/s of delta-V, launch TWR of 1.43 increasing to 1.99 with the third stage, falling off to 1.85 with the core stage. You could still make orbit with that set of tweaks. The TWR is a bit on the high side, so you'd be losing a bit more delta-V to drag. Still, that is a viable alternative, I will grant that. Maybe not quite as efficient. I suppose it depends on whether or not you want thrust or delta-V; 500 m/s of additional delta-V with my original design suggestions is not an insignificant amount after all, but if you're just going to turn around and toss it into the drink, there's nothing particularly wrong with moar thrust either.

Alright, OP. I've analyzed your craft from what you've described, and I think I know what problem you're having. Let's go over the analysis. The payload you described is: Large RCS (3.4) Large RCU (0.5) X200-8 w/ 48-7S (4.5 + .1) Jumbo 64 (36) Sr Docking Port (.05) Total Mass of 44.55 tonnes. I'm not sure about the Docking Port but since it doesn't add a lot of mass, we'll leave it there. Also, if this is something you want to perform independent operations, you might consider adding something in the way of an electrical system, unless you're okay with it become debris while something else (with electricity, presumably) comes along to dock with it. Now for your stages as listed. You've got a six stage rocket (assuming that "Stage 1" above is actually a four-stage asparagus). With the parts you've described, it breaks down like this: Rocko / X200-16 / Poodle (0.5 + 9-1 + 2.5), Isp = 270 (12-4) ==> dV=404, TWR=0.39 Rocko / X200-32 /Large ASAS / Mainsail (0.5 + 18-2 + 0.2 + 6), Isp 280 (24.7-8.7) ==> dV=602, TWR=1.88 Rocko / Large ASAS / Skipper / J64 (0.5 + 0.2 + 4 + 36-4) Isp 300 (40.7-8.7) ==> dV=895, TWR=0.543 TT38-Kx2 / Skipperx2 / J64x2 (.05+8+72-8) Isp 300 (80.05 - 16.05) ==> dV=1127, TWR = 0.98 TT38-Kx2/ Skipperx2 / J64x2 (.05+8+72-8) Isp 300 (80.05 - 16.05) ==> dV=757, TWR = 1.17 TT38-Kx2 / Skipperx2 / J64x2 (.05+8+72-8) Isp 300 (80.05 - 16.05) ==> dV=572, TWR = 1.28 Total Delta V = 4,357 m/s Your TWRs are appalling pretty much the entire way up. If your asparagus is set up correctly, you're going to start falling out of the sky after you've dropped your second set of asparagus boosters. You could kick those off early to light up the Mainsail but then you'd lose almost half of your available delta-V. No ifs ands or buts about it: this ship is not going to space today. Forgive me for ignoring the SRBs - I see them as extraneous mass. They help you get into the air...which just means that you're going to be up higher when you drop your second set of boosters and start falling out of the sky. So let's adjust this booster. 44.55 tonnes is actually pretty easy to launch as it turns out. For this I will turn to Temstar's Guidelines to Good Asparagus: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/28248-Is-asparagus-the-best-staging-system-%28might-contain-science%29?p=346702&viewfull=1#post346702 So by his guidelines, you can launch a 44.55 tonne payload with a rocket that has an estimated mass of just short of 300 tonnes (putting through my calculator, it comes out to 330, but we'll let that slide). You'll want 1049-1115 kN of thrust in the core and 603-640 kN of thrust on the boosters (assuming six boosters). An engine cluster consisting of a central LV-T45 and four outboard LV-T30s will suffice for the core, while an LV-T45 and two LV-T30s each will suffice for the booster segments. A single orange tank per stack will do the trick (by which I mean a total aggregate delta-V of 4,972.415 m/s with a TWR no lower than 1.39 at any time). Try this setup; if it doesn't work, you're not setting up your asparagus correctly. Incidentally, 44.55 tonnes is within the tolerance of what can be launched single-stage (though just barely). You'll need to turn on clipping, you'll need nine stacks with three orange tanks and an X200-8, each with a Mainsail on the bottom. And struts of course. Now, for your ion glider, getting it to go interplanetary is like getting anything else to go interplanetary; once it's in space it's payload just like anything else. You attach it to a transfer stage (just a big gas can and some nukes) and off you go. Something like this (second time I get to use this same pic this morning): If you want specific details, we'd need to see your design and know what its mass is. We can work on that if you'd like. Hopefully I've been of some assistance and haven't sounded too sarcastic or condescending - haven't had my coffee yet this morning. Not an excuse, just a statement of fact...

LV-N fairings have no mass. As for their ability to knock crucial bits and pieces off of ships, I've taken to not putting anything below them - You'd be amazed at how stable that long girder/girder adapter combo is when it comes time to connect it up to the booster. Nothing attached to the bottom of the nukes means no shrouds, means no boom. I have heard of ways you can actually direct how the shrouds eject such that they annihilate each other before they annihilate your ship, but I've yet to use any of those methods successfully.

Yes, you could do this sort of thing with KAS. It'd have to be a manned flight with a series of containers, each container containing one of the newer science instruments. You'll also need to have advanced far enough along the tech tree to have access to the containers; they're with Advanced Construction unless I'm mistaken (definitely in that vicinity; KAS parts are spread out all over the tech tree and I was dismayed to find that the Electromagnet is in fact a Tier 8 part (cost 1000 science)). If your Jool ship doesn't have a docking port, you can either A) park the parts ship in close rendezvous and work from there, or park the parts ship in close rendezvous and send a docking port up in a container (maybe one of the Jrs), then dock and work from there. Find the spot where you want to stick the part, right click on your Kerbal and select...I think it's "Place", IIRC; I've only used that feature once or twice. The instructions will appear on the screen and it'll act a lot like the inside of the VAB.

Designed and built a science ship with the intended destination of Gilly. Rotten asparagus. Luckily Jeb's lander survived and I was able to conduct a test of his lander's parachute system; that part worked extremely well. I will be breaking that ship into a separate lander/transfer stage as soon as I can recalculate the asparagus I'll need. The lander might be light enough to launch it SSTO, but it'd be right within tolerance. Transfer stage is definitely going to have to be asparagus.

Posted to the wrong thread. Oops.

No prob. That particular chart should be the most recent one; as far as I know it's the only one that includes data on delta-V for plane changes, which is why I prefer it over the other versions (I do like the "subway map" version on the wiki; I used that one for a very long time).

1. Do it about four times each. Better still, take four Sci Jrs. with you when you go. Geschosskopf's got a thread about this that I really need to add to my collection of hot-links... Since he ninja'd me I'm surprised he didn't link it himself... 2. You can keep all the samples and EVA reports in one pod. Crew reports (ones from inside the pod) are a different story. Same goes for experiments as a rule; most of them can only store the data from a single run. You can either transmit that away and get another sample (generally bad idea) or just carry around more experiments. 3. Transmitting screws you over in the long run; there's a cap of about 40% of the total possible value that you can get from transmission, and that's assuming you carry around multiple instances of the same instruments (so ultimately you either have to return an experiment from there anyway, or settle for 40%). Now, for places like the surface of Eve (where return is impossible or undesirable), its better to transmit than get nothing. Everywhere else, you want to try to go home with your science.

You'll need about ~3400 all told in your lander, a little less if you're willing to use chutes when you land on Duna.

^^^ Screenies like that one make me wish I'd stuck a docking port on the Ia. Alas that that particular improvement did not arrive until the Auk IV, which I would not classify as a "beginner's" plane. But it's still cool; completed the K-Prize with that one... But I digress.

General guidelines for spaceplanes: A)1 Turbojet engine for every 9-12 tonnes of payload (everything but the wings, jets, jet fuel tanks and intakes; the ratio of payload to engine is highly dependent on number of intakes). B)200-250 units of liquid fuel per jet engine. C)One pair of swept wings or delta wings per six total tonnes of aircraft (that includes your jets and their fuel tanks). D)No fewer than three Ram Air Intakes per jet. With 3:1, use 9 tonnes per engine and add half a tonne for each whole step increase in the ratio, to a max of 12 (4:1 = 9.5, 5:1 = 10, 6:1=10.5, 7:1=11, 8:1=11.5, 9+:1 = 12) 4:1 is not really scary airhogging; its not unusual for me to go 8:1 with my designs, though there are exceptions: (The Auk 8 runs out of jet fuel all the ruttin' time...) I think in your case it's a combination of not enough lift (moar wings) and not enough thrust. Difficult to tell without taking the time to calculate how much mass you're talking about. Any case, check your designs against the guidelines I've listed above. If you're meeting them all and you're still having trouble, let us know.

Prepping to go to Ike for science. Designed the craft, built it and launched it; a bit hairy and low on TWR but she made it okay. Scipacks tested alright. I then tested my intended means of getting the lander re-attached to the transfer stage - that bit failed. Good thing I tested that in orbit of Kerbin instead of the orbit of Ike. I've made a quick redesign; will have to test out how it handles tonight. Meantime, I'm also prepping a ship to go to Gilly.

Start: 9Md+x = yMd+yx Subtract yMd from both sides: 9Md + x - yMd = yx Subtract x from both sides: 9Md - yMd = yx - x Take out the common factors: (9-y)Md = (y-1)x And there you go.

I was afraid you were going to tell me that...I have a challenge going on and was having issues applying the equation for my VAB entry. Tiny one too, though apparently not tiny enough...

Ah. Okay. In any event, it looks like we both wound up giving the exact same advice, just with different terms. Let me ask you this: have you ever come across a situation where the MassRatio is greater than nine (i.e. a negative result)? That's happened to me a few times before and I'm not sure what exactly that signifies.

Oh....Dave, that's wrong, the mass ratio is 9:1, not 8:1. The rest of that is right, though - the mass of everything but your tanks can be broken down into individual components, the tank mass and everything else. That "everything else" is your dead mass, which you can represent by X, thus the rocket equation becomes: dV = ln(M+x / Md + x) * Isp * Go And now you put in the relationship M = 9Md: dV = ln(9Md+x / Md + x) * Isp * Go And solve the equation for Md: e^(dV/(Isp*Go)) = y = 9Md+x / Md + x 9Md+x = yMd+yx (9-y)Md = (y-1)x Md = (y-1)x/(9-y) Solve for that, then feed the result back into M = 9Md, and you have the fuel mass you need. Then take that result and divide it by .05625, the full mass of an FL-T100 fuel tank, and round up; the result is the number of FL-T100 equivalents you'll need to generate roughly the amount of delta-V you want. By rounding up, you don't short yourself. An FL-T200 is the same as 2 FL-T100s, an FL-T400 is the same as 4 FL-T100s, an FL-T800/X200-32 is the same as 8 FL-T100s, an X200-16 is the same as 16 FL-T100s, an X200-32 is the same as 32 FL-T100s, and a Jumbo64 (the orange tank) is the same as 64 FL-T100s. Equation in action: I want 4550 m/s of delta V with a 300 Isp Engine, with 1 tonne of deadmass. Plug everything in: y = e^(dV/(Isp*Go)) = e^(4550/(300*9.81)) = 4.693 Md = (y-1)x/(9-y) = ((4.693-1)*1)/(9-4.683) = 3.693 / 4.317 = .855 M = 9Md = 7.699, 7.699 / 0.5625 = 13.68, round up to 14 FL-T100s (A combination FL-T800, FL-T400 and FL-T200 stack). Hope that helps.

Glad you were able to get the Auk to work. And fly over to the island runway...first time I tried to do that I botched the approach (what I get for making the attempt at night). Good thing it's got an ejection system; else Jeb might've had a bad day. Pretty neat group photo, IMHO.

Yeah, it does that. Rear wheels are too far forward. I'd fix it but it doesn't actually cause any damage when it tips over and it corrects itself easily once you start rolling. Plus if I move the wheels further back it won't take off before it reaches the end of the runway. Well...the Auk is definitely all stock. So...diagnostic process then: is there something those six craft have in common with each other and with none of the other craft? Sounds like a bit of work is in order.

Have you tried deleting and reloading the craft file? Is it continuing to give you grief? Anybody else having problems with the ribbon generator today?