helldiver

Ok Tiberion, ZRM, going to weld it... *grumble* Yeah, ZRM/Tiberion you guys hit the nail on the head. I guess that opens up two spots where those bulkhead textures used to be for future add-ons and features. Going to have to add a couple days to the project. It's ok, I wanted to weld those together anyhow, just wish I'd have done it earlier. Imagur being stupid right now. Note the "fake" bulkhead that you would have seen in the VAB when you grabbed the SAS segment. Ignore the outer shell around the cockpit portion, that's simply the shell modifier remnant which will be deleted.

Do you guys know if there is a way to flag an object so that it isn't visible while in IVA? Otherwise I'm running into a serious problem. Essentially it will delay the project at least another week to completion. It consists of welding the SAS portion onto the cockpit portion. See the first post of this thread.

Ok there seems to be confusion do to different images being uploaded out of order. This is what the cargo bay looks like currently. Notice the attachment points have the round circular docking ring textured on them like stock and KSPXP Mod. They are on top of the octagonal mounting block. The mounting block is square because it has multiple attach points for different sizes center and off-center. The octagonal mounting block is part of the shuttle's aesthetic as Toyotawolf mentioned. The picture of the broken up shuttle is older, and shows the mounting blocks without the circular ring.

-They don't have to be on release. I need feedback from you guys ahead of time so as I map things out and put place holders in so that I've set aside UV space. More than likely the analog gauges will work and the MFD's can be turned off. Not a problem, it also doesn't have to be priority. Once the main cockpit is baked, I can send you MFD components, or the whole cockpit if you wish so you can wire it. We can go to PM's if you'd prefer. That would actually speed up the process. Sadly, without a Kerbal, I can't really place the control column, rudder pedals, and such at the right locations. I made them modular though so I can check in-game and move them. Another option would be to make the seat adjustable... I'm more afraid of their helmets hitting the roof and overhead consoles. Alright, not a problem. The docking console view screen is in the rear (not sure if you can see the panels back there). I was planning on having those screens back there and putting a camera back there. When you did your docking you'd switch to that camera. That's not a problem. Just a mater of a few snaps. Do you know if KSP backface culls? In other words I shouldn't see the backside of a polygon in KSP right? Some engines double-side everything All of the gauges and mfd's are modular and will eventually have their own UV map. The one I'm concerned about is the control panel map which shares the same textures as the cockpit interior for performance reasons.

Alright to answer some concerns: -We're not adding any additional fancy features from the project goal, sorry for the misunderstanding. When I asked ZRM for the HSI and ADI, it was to get feedback on their feasibility. A couple posters had suggested the need for something like that which coincides with my goal. -I'm not giving you guys the shuttle without the cockpit. It's just not going to happen. That's very unprofessional from my point of view and it's like giving you an unfinished gift. Years ago I did cockpits for Microsoft Flight Simulator (both free and commercial ones), I hated downloading a cool aircraft, only to get stuck with a default cockpit that didn't match it. The cockpit is part of the Kerbin shuttle, they aren't separate projects. -The first flight deck you guys will get will more than likely have default gauges, to meet the project goals without feature bloat. I will make every effort to work with ZRM and other modders to include optional features. However, they are optional, and probably won't make the first release. Things like an ADI, HSI, or a HUD would be magnificent, but like you guys said wander into feature bloat territory. -The reason why the art has to have those extra MFD's, gauges, displays, etc. on them, is because my art pipeline requires I bake certain maps into them. Hence why I need modders with experience feedback on what is doable and what isn't, so I can set aside UV, and polygon budgets. Even if the MFD's don't function on release, I want them baked in there. Later on when ZRM or other modders helping me wire them up, we pull out the mockup "place holder" MFD or gauge and replace it with the functioning one. -Gauges and Displays on the art side of things, take me maybe 10 minutes to make. So making those extra pieces of art won't significantly slow the project down. Also, I probably wouldn't be doing the wiring but would turn the art over to a modder with experience doing that. They'd mail me back the MFD or gauge data which I would then replace the place holder with.

Awesome stuff man! Been using the Space 1999 stuff lately, love it!

Cockpit 3D model mastered. I still have to make some changes and the gauges and MFD's are not fully modeled, I put in mock-up ones so you guys got an idea of the layout I was suggesting. I was thinking the two screens on the left were for Heading and Attitude information. The ADI would contain, airspeed, altitude, as well as bank angle, aoa, and vertical speed. HSI could be optional like you guys said, but I really wanted one, not important and we can leave it as a future feature. I'm confused as to how cockpits work. Are they literally -inside- the cockpit model? Or are interior spaces virtual/instanced? How does the system know where on the cockpit the flight deck is located? I'm so confused. I kind of need to know at this point so that I control how much "fake" geometry I make, as well as make sure none of the flight deck geometry pokes through the real cockpit. The Cameras available will be: -Pilot in Command (PIC) -Co-pilot seat -1st mission specialist -2nd mission specialist -Left off-center console utility camera. A better view than the PIC view, probably the view most people would want to use. -Rear docking console camera Please keep in mind this is just the raw un-optimized 3D mesh and has no textures or smoothing groups. The layout is not final and may change and the current camera heights will also change. Left off-center console utility view Click to view wide image The compass would also contain the atmospheric tracking tape, although that should also be on the ADI display or on one of the MFDs. Looking from the PIC towards the co-pilot seat Co-pilot looking back towards the flight deck [Edit] Ignore this, I forget to set the safe frame and the FOV was borked, didn't notice that until I saw the video. Your FOV would be a lot closer in. Looking from the 1st mission specialist's chair towards the control panel. View from the 2nd mission specialist towards the PIC View from the 1st mission specialist towards the 2nd mission specialist Overhead view of the flight deck One of the seats.

Good point! I didn't want to make them separate parts. I'd have preferred the fuselage to be one solid piece. Unfortunately I was kind of misinformed early on (or perhaps there was a misunderstanding). My apologies if this doesn't work for you. I am not planning on making a general use parts pack, Bac9 style. For that sort of thing, you have B9 and many other mods out there. Plus I'm certain the dev team will eventually release those sorts of parts. However, the engines, avionics, and other pieces can still be used on any part you wish, and like the poster above me stated, with some creativity you can easily jury rig any piece. The shuttle itself is set in stone. The only changes I'm going back in to make is the name and decals on the side (perhaps with Firespitter's permission to use his texture change mod). So, again for you guys wanting a general use parts pack, this is not that kind of mod. Additionally I'm not going back in to make or add geometric changes at this point, as that would be adding to feature creep. The only changes I'm making are those related to flight model data, and any suggestions by ZRM and KSP flight/Modders helping me get it in game. As well as the ability for you to remove the name "Dauntless" and pick a more suitable name.

I'm not sure what you are asking. If you mean the attachment points in the cargo bay; Note that they have the circular attachment point similar to the stock parts and the KXP Mod parts. If you mean the internal bulkhead pressure doors as you see here: Then that's a no. Not only are they unique to the Kerbin orbiter design, but all the textures and geometry has been baked with them. You're not supposed to be attaching non KSO parts in those locations anyhow as there is no attachment vertex (the part will glow red).

You guys are thinking the same way I am. I want a glass cockpit that is at least 75% usable (100% usable would be like the game "Orbiter" or "Flight Simulator X). I know 75% is kind of difficult without some robust programming support for MFDs. Specifically, I need an HSI and an ADI for atmospheric flight. Two center screens will be used as MFDs which would bring up space-flight data and information. Those two center screens can double as Camera screens for orbital maneuvering to make up for the lack of visibility. ZRM, how viable is that? Are you able to program an ADI? ADI stands for Attitude Director Indicator, HSI stands for Horizontal Situation Indicator. The HSI is on the left the ADI is on the right: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_wNlH9Ec-lp0/TJuRog_5bSI/AAAAAAAAA7M/Cji-gr8vqGw/s320/Airplane+stuff+007.jpg I didn't want to use the Ball used in KSP and prefer an ADI glass display. Better visibility and we can put all information on it, Altitude, AoA, KIAS (or true airspeed if the game simulates any of that). After a certain altitude, airspeed converts to meters per second, and altitude converts to meters (or it could all be switchable by the player). The HSI would allow you to set nav-points (I know there is no VOR or ILS systems in KSP) on the ground around Kerbin. Maybe have it so you need to deploy one? You would use the HSI to glide back to specific spots you set. On inter-planetary missions perhaps the HSI could be used to set nav points in reference to that planet's magnetic north? You would need to be at a specific altitude over the planetary body for it to work. In addition to the HSI and ADI, there will be two MFDs in the center of the control panel. These can be used for all flight data (turning on and off lights, opening the cargo bay, flight information, RCS status, etcetera). Additionally these two MFD's can be used to display visual from the cargo bay and from the front lower portion of the cockpit (for ground and orbital operation clearance visibility). You would also have the analog gauges (radar altimeter, magnetic compass, airspeed indicator, etc.). I'll have an image of the flight deck a little later, I'm still brick and mortaring the master.

I want it in game as fast as you do, rather, the same night it is in game and successfully flying without too much fuss, will be the same night you'll be able to download it here or on the Spaceport. The goals you saw on the original posts and follow ups, are set in stone. I'm not a feature creep fan. So no prolonging projects indefinitely as I add in everything but the kitchen sink. The only additional parts being added aside from the set goals are necessary parts needed to make flying and using it much more user friendly. As well as any part needed by the KSP development pipeline. Right now I'm working on the flight deck, I'll have some pics up later this eve.

The official name of the vehicle is Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter, not Intrepid, or Dauntless, or Mini-shuttle, or anything like that. The missions involving it are numbered KST-1, KST-2 and so on (KST stands for Kerbin Shuttle Transport). Kerbin Shuttle Orbiter, or simple Kerbin Shuttle "Wing", or KSO "XXXX" (where XXXX is the name of a part) is what will show up in the parts selector. So you will see; Kerbin Shuttle Right Wing, KSO Main Left Gear, KSO Nose Gear, and so on. The engines will show up as Thrustmax 750 and Omnimax 350 (or what ever number we settle on once we've figured out the thrust, version, or what ever. Dauntless is the christening name, which I stuck on the side, is the test vehicle I'm using. It'll be Dauntless until the vehicle and parts and project is complete and in game. Once that is working, then we can experiment with the decal/art changing mod by Firespitter and I will come on the forums and ask for suggestions. Punching a new name on the said takes me 10 seconds. I think some of you guys are confusing the christening name with the official model name. The fluff goes that the KSO is being built as a joint venture between Murika Corp, Orbitz Aerospace, and VEG for the Kerbal Space Program. The name Kerbin was chosen because it was a combined effort of several companies throughout, Kerbin. So instead of preferring a local name, the consortium chose Kerbin (the name of the planet) to represent the combined effort. However, the VEG design group traditionally named their space vehicles after the planet or location they were designed to operate on, for example Mun L-12 (the 12th version of their Mun lander), KLV-54 (the 54th version of their Kerbin Lift Vehicle), and so on. For being a design group, they aren't very creative in naming their devices. They also have the nasty habit of referring to their vehicles as "he" or "it" rather than "she".

Oh you mean you want a fairing so that you can mount the shuttle with the engines installed? Ouch! that's a no for now. Definitely something I can model in the future after we're all flying it in game. I'm out of UV space completely. Constructing a proper fairing to fit the rear and cover the engines would set us back at least 2 days it is also beyond the scope of the mod currently. But it is definitely something I can add later on. I thought you mean mounting the orbiter without the engines on to a tank or something. The engines are not part of the orbiter, you can attach and detach them normally. After installing the air-stair I'm out of space completely. Alright that sounds awesome! Had to put together a more important part then the cockpit...

Before doing the scaling; Is there anything I need to know about the scale in KSP? 1m = 1m in KSP right? It's not something weird like 1m=1.5 or something? I'm converting from Feet, which is why I need to know this ahead of time. 80 Pieces currently, so I'd like to know before redoing all the hierarchies. thanks!

No, no showing of Kerbals in the cockpit. I'm designing the cockpit to give you maximum visibility for IVA flight. My goal was to add additional MFD's that you can turn on for camera views while inside.

Ok that's a big issue that's coming up shortly. I should be done with the cockpit by sunday-monday and then I begin the collision mesh process. Before I get to that point I want to already scale the project and reset xforms. According the KSP wiki, a Kerbal is 0.75 meters tall (that's close to 2'5"). If the cargo bay is 1.5 meters wide (close to 5') two Kerbals could lay down end to the end and touch both sides. It seems to me 1.5 meters is just way too small. Specially since the cockpit is supposed to fit 4 Kerbals. An additional 2 Kerbals can fit in the Docking Module, for a total of 6 Kerbals in the space craft. If the Cargo bay is 1.5 meters wide, that makes the cockpit about 1.2 (approximately 4'). That gives me very little space for the center consoles or any side panel details. I suppose I could go for 1.8 (6ft). That should give me more than enough space for everything plus give you 1.5m in the cargo bay that is usable. What does everyone think?

Man that thing is ugly. Even the X-37B has absolutely no character. -The rear end has a central vertex you can attach one of the hundreds of tanks, adapter rings, and parts available in the stock installation or on the Spaceport. Currently I don't have plants to build a launch vehicle since there is plenty of stuff available.

Correct. I just didn't want to fry the engine into a set position since then it could pretty much -only- be used for specific applications. With the variable thrust vector, a player can set it to 0° and use it on a rocket or a different vehicle entirely.

This is what I mean: His mod does it: http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/pitch-vector-engine/ I wanted a similar function (the vector part), that you could set manually before launch.

ZRM no need for that. The player just sets the vector angle manually using action groups and then leaves it alone. The gimbal is done by your program. The new updated Thrustmax with full gimbal range nozzle. I cut the hoses off since I didn't want to deal with the skin modifier issue in Unity-Kerbal. Although they really should think about that. Not how you can set manually the vector of the engine (+/- 30 degrees?) plus it gimbals. The vectoring is so that you have manual control on the angle of the assembly. I don't want to fry the engine in a set position. Not sure if I am clear. The gimbal range is roughly +/- 10 degrees as suggested by ZRM. Only at maximum gimbal range does it clip slightly

Got a technical problem with the Gimbal pivot point of the Thrustmax. I usually solve issues like that by simply using a Skin Modifier, but I don't know how that will be handled in Unity and if KSP can do that. Note how the cooling plumbing crosses over the pivot location I'll be doing. That means that the nozzle has to gimbal independent of the vector point. The only way to do this without getting nasty clipping is to put a skin modifier on the those hoses so that they deform properly as the nozzle gimbals. Is the skin modifier allowed in that situation?

and and The first orbiter you see above, the Dauntless, is for testing purposes and getting it in game. Once that is all done, as well as the IVA cockpit and such, I'll then get to work on those "extra" features. The Firespitter mod you guys suggested seems excellent for this. We can then hold a vote or thread on a series of names the community wants. I'll then stamp out a bunch of diffuses with those names so you can use the Firespitter mod to switch between different names of orbiters; Dauntless, Intrepid, Flattery, Adjective, HMS Beagle, what ever I am not making a launch vehicle. See earlier in the thread. You can make your own launch vehicle with the parts available on the spaceport. Earlier in the thread you see completed images of all the parts. The shuttle is not one piece, however, the pieces are designed to fit like a jigsaw puzzle, which means they will be difficult to be used with other mods. The only parts that are general and don't have orbiter-shape specific geometry is the avionics, the engines, and the docking module.

Here's a video to answer your questions: Note that you manually pivot the engine to set it at the correct angle. You should be able to set this up using action hotkeys. It will rotate in 10 degree increments. This will allow you to set the engine at the proper angle for the orbiter or for other uses. The second pivot point is the gimbal effect of the nozzle. This is done automatically by RCS, your mod, etc. Players don't have control of this movement. The firewall, note the third spot is covered. You can attach a third engine there. I also made the Orbitz Omnimax (the OMS engine) 10% larger or so to better fit the area, and make up for the loss of the third. Your RCS portholes; took five hours to get that set up. Basically they pop out Batmobile style and the two doors then open. Sorry for the bad lighting

The engines can be vectored as you can see from the images. The nozzle components are separate. The pivot points are at the root of the vector rotation point. You're saying the nozzle itself should be a third piece that gimbals on its own? Ok some minor editing required but that shouldn't be a problem. The engines have their own 1024x1024 texture they share and there is still space on it. Green line is the current Vector pivot point (up down only). You're saying the nozzle itself (at the white arrow) should swivel on a kingpin? That wouldn't be a problem, I can make a quick half-ball joint there. I can do the same for the Thrustmax as well. The only other changes to the orbiter are the addition/fix to the lower RCS nozzles, and the fix to the firewall, correct.

Alright, not a problem. Going to do the two and two nozzles. Animating them being closed or opened is not possible at this point. Not without puncturing the mesh, adding additional geometry, re-baking the normal and so on. I'm also out of UV space. I don't think it's worth the time investment for such a small aesthetic change? I could however do a texture switch trick where instead of the vents opening and closing with a 3D mesh, it would be a texture switch between opened and closed. However we have to think about additional gameplay minutiae being added. Again that's adding way to much nitpicky gameplay minutiae Ok no problem. I'm going to make the third spot look optional. That allows you to use a three engine configuration if you decide to put an additional fuel tank in the cargo bay for special operations like Mun lander delivery and so on. Thank you for the replies, I put everything on hold until I got your feedback. Going to do those small changes, and then working on the IVA cockpit.