Dave Kerbin

Mission 9 was just a simple probe test mission and test of the new fuel lines. Nothing really interesting happened so I ended the mission with a safe return after only 20 minutes. I may make a further Kerbin survey mission that sends up a mothership carrying multiple simple drop pods, each one with a probe core, science experiment, parachute and sepratron to deorbit and study a different area on Kerbin. I may also do a manned polar expedition before returning to the Mun and later going to Minmus and beyond.

For reference, here is my Mun ship which was a bit over engineered since I only did the rough math and errd on the side of caution. It got me to the Mun with plenty of fuel for a safe touchdown and return. I was able to collect soil samples, perform some additional experiments and relay a few crew reports during the trip. http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/53159-Science-leads-to-wonderful-things?p=707046&viewfull=1#post707046 And here is the tech tree I had. Now technically an experienced player can do a Mun mission without unlocking anything, but that requires some jerry-rigged decouplers and enough skill to land on an engine safely. I've marked the suggested techs. Survivability is the key one, as it gives you landing gear and the LV-909 engine, I wouldn't do a Mun landing without them. Stability is the next most useful for the radial decoupler which makes efficient booster stages easier (you can jerry-rig radial decouplers out of more basic parts though). General Rocketry gives you a thrust vectoring launch engine along with the bigger solid boosters. Science Tech gives you batteries and the Science Bay Jr which can add more science value to the mission. I'd be willing to help you, but I need to know what part of the mission is holding you back. -Can you get into stable orbit around Kerbin? -Can you plot a course to the Mun? (you enter the Mun's sphere of influence) -Can you get into stable orbit around the Mun? -Can you land safely on the Mun? -Can you launch back into Mun orbit? -Can you plot a course to bring you back to Kerbin orbit? -Can you descend safely to Kerbin?

The torque (reaction wheel) is a seperate system and consumes additional power when it is used. And Kerbals apparently consume no food and require almost no life support beyond a suit to prevent depressurization. There has been some speculation that Kerbals are plants. So yes, for the moment the manned capsules consume no power, apart from the cost of using the reaction wheel. The probe cores do require power to operate, they are computers that automate what a living Kerbal usually does. If the ship runs out of power the computer will turn off. A few notes: If you have a ship with solar panels that runs out of power, and the ships drifts into a position where the solar panels get sunlight the batteries will recharge and the probe core (if present) will reboot, letting you regain control of the ship. If you have a manned ship that also has a probe core(s) then the probe will be using power even when a Kerbal is present. As of 0.21 a probe core couldn't be manually shutdown (the reaction wheel could be disabled but not the probe itself) so if you built a manned ship with several satellites to be detached they will all consume power from the ships reserves, unless they have a mechanism to generate power on their own (if they are stowed their solar panels might be blocked).

Assuming the craft was just drifting it would have 23.5 hours of power. If the mission was 18 hours you'd have at least 500 units of spare power to work with. However several things consume power. The reaction wheel consumes power whenever it needs to stabilize the craft. The more massive (and that ship is big) the more power that is used to finally get it stable. You can save a lot of power once in space by turning off SAS when you need to change orientation and just give a slight nudge in the right direction. Your ship will slowly spin on its own (since SAS isn't try to stop it). When you reach the right orientation give a little nudge in the other direction to slow down and then engage SAS to fully stabilize. By not fighting against SAS the whole time you save power. Since most maneuvers in space are planned well in advance you can afford to use this slower means of turning. I also see a transmission dish. Sending a transmission uses a lot of power (30 on the antenna, I haven't used the dish yet). How many reports did you transmit? A little over a dozen reports, combined with SAS, would have used up your power allowance.

The node at the bottom has a 6 on it, any idea what that means? I've got several marked 2 and one marked 8. The two nodes on the right are greyed out, I can't even select them. Why? These are the first nodes that behave that way. I've reached other nodes that had more then one path to them, but that didn't stop me from selecting or unlocking them.

Is there a way to save an entire craft as an assembly? Dragging the whole things doesn't seem to let you save (limitation of tree system?) I'd like to be able to make something like a lander and then save it.

*Mission 8* MUN LANDING Engineering Observations The Kerbal Space Program has a new recruit, Geofmin Kerman, the smartest Kerman ever. He's got this thing called 'math' that he claims will get him to the Mun and back safely. The launch numbers seem really fuzzy, but he says that's because the values change based on altitude, so he just picked a conservative number and used that. Geofmin has worked with the engineers to design this: Launch went well, the solid boosters wanted to go off course a bit but where kept under control. Future missions might seek some kind of stability control for this stage. The liquid booster stage worked beyond expectations, having enough fuel left to perform over half of the orbital stablization burn leaving 459L of liquid fuel of remaining, 150% of the calculated mission requirements. Geofmin has a go for a mission to the Mun. With so much extra fuel the orbit stage can be used not just to get into stable Mun orbit, but to provide most of the fuel for the descent. With this exta fuel Geofmin is able to make a full deorbit burn for a precise landing on a nice flat looking plain, eject the orbit stage and then use the landing stage to maintain a slow descent speed which was very useful since the landing site was at 4000m and could have resulted in a crash if he had been going faster. The last 200m are flown at a stable 4.6m/s. On the 10th day, on the 10th hour and just past the 10th minute Geofmin softly touches down on the Munar surface. On the return trip aerobraking at 35km reduces the AP to 975km. However Geofmin has plans to try and ensure a landing on solid ground (water risks damage to the experiments) and sees an opportunity to land near KSC. This won't be easy, as there is only a small zone between the coast and the mountains. There are both the effects of the atmosphere and the rotation of the planet to take into consideration and no one at KSC has much experience with this. Things don't go perfectly, and even with some attempted course correction in the atmosphere the landing zone lines up with the mountains west of KSC, at night no less. The high altitude of the landing site means the service module will need to be seperated and chutes opened early to ensure a soft landing, which does carry some risk that the service module might drift too far and become lost. The service modules legs are extended to improve its chances of a soft landing. After tense minutes the service module is observed touching down and it doesn't seem to go rolling away, so the ground must be reasonably flat. 17 seconds later the command pod with it's fragile science module joins it. There is a bit of roll as it find its footing on the mountain side but fortunately there is no tumble down a cliff. Science Observations The Mun is really beat up with craters, a cold gray surface. Landing inside a crater might be a good option. Goo is less dense on the Mun The science module has Mun dust all over it. They'll never be able to get it all cleaned out. The darker midlands surface seems to be made up of basaltic rock That dust is getting everywhere The goo feels right at home just above the Mun's surface. This is the second time the goo has displayed sentient like thought. Since Kerbals are green and seem to only require sunlight to live, could they be evolved from algae; Is the goo (which is labeled a biological sample and so I assume algae or something similar) like sending up a chimp? Kerbin is very round. Kerbin's mountains seem smaller from high up. Outcome Geofmin is the first Kerman to visit the Mun on the 8th mission of the KSP. Over 400 science is transmitted and returned on this mission. Kerbal engineers look forward to what else 'math' can do. Tip: If you create a 'return capsule' like I have for landing samples seperate from your command pod there are three things to remember: -Unless you have advanced enough to include a probe core you'll lose control once it seperates. Make sure parachute deployment is in the same stage as the decoupler. You may also want to flip your craft so that it can lift away instead of the chutes pulling it back into your ship -To land safely all packages must stay within 2.xkm of your active ship. Plan to open the chutes close together and close to the ground to avoid drift and descent speed differences. -To recover the capsules go to the observatory and click the debris icon at the top (left most icon, the only one not highlighted). Select the correct 'debris' and click recover (recover here works the same as in the field, but eliminates the chance of sudden explosion) Edit: Science used so far to unlock some stuff I find to be of use -Advanced Rocketry - T800 Fuel Tank -Electrics - Solar Power, Lights -Flight Control - Sputnik core -General Construction - Structs, Launch Clamps, Tri-adapter -Fuel Systems - RCS, Fuel Lines

This is correct. The Gemini program (the one between Mercury and Apollo) was designed to test the basic concepts required for a long duration trip to the Moon. That included crew endurance (staying in space for more then a week), docking in orbit (required in 2 of the 3 Moon landing schemes) and finally power, showing that fuel cells (rather then batteries like on Mercury) could be used to provide the needed power for an Apollo trip to the Moon. Gemini 5 was the first US spaceship powered by fuel cells. Solar cells of the time would not have provided enough power for crew life support. Even today a large solar array is needed for long duration missions (see the ISS).

*Mission 7* -Recovery test mission, partial success by Lemgun Engineering Observations -To improve recovery of samples several designs where included in a new suborbital ship -The pod+science bay where give 2 radial chutes -A seperate detaching science bay with chutes was added -The service module gained mystery goo containers and it's own recovery chutes -All 3 systems worked -The service module still came down pretty fast, it may not be safe to attach a science module there -The pod came down upside down at 3.8m/s -The lone science module came down even slower, giving time for Lemgun to get out and meet it -After recovering Lemgun and returning to the landing site, the lone science module exploded, cause unknown -The pod was recovered, and after telling crews to check for debris it was also possible to recover the science in the service module too Science observations -Lemgun reports that some of the science experiments seem to be judging him for performing them while still on the launchpad -Lemgun sees some nice beaches, those waves look inviting -Some of the science experiments have been broken by the vibrations of launch. The colors they make are interesting. -Goo giggles -There is dirt on Kerbin -Lemgun is not sure a space suit was needed for EVA work on Kerbin Outcome -Seperate science return and coordinated landing possible -Explosive property of science module still a danger

From another thread

Thank you! Now I have to go and 'fix' Jeb back to being dead. *Mission 6* -Orbital science mission, partial success by Bill Engineering Observations -Rocket design from mission 5 is still good, pod extended with science module 'Science Jr'. Scientists insist it is not just a children's chemistry set. -Batteries and two types of transmitters added to service module for comparison purposes. -Bill couldn't figure out how to transmit with the fold out dish, everything went through the little antenna. Wiring may be at fault. -Impact resistance of Science Jr. lower then expected. Maybe those radial parachutes have a use after all. Science Observations -Science Jr. reveals...that things float in microgravity.* -Bill chooses a highly eliptical orbit, doesn't quite get the poles. He flies over a cool island but only sees clouds, and Kerbin scientists already heard enough about those. -To make up for it he raises his AP to 70,000km, just short of breaking Kerbin's SOI. -After 4 days of travel and from the very edge of Kerbin's SOI Bill calls up KSC, "Crew Reporting In, From Space!" Outcome -After ejecting the service module the Command Pod and Science Jr. module descend on parachute at 6.9m/s. Touchdown causes the science module to burst into flames. -*Due to the loss of the science 'experiments' and lack of an EVA on this mission only Bill's verbal reports are of any real importance. Less then 10 science gained.

I'm starting a career game and I'm playing self imposed 'no revert, all death permanent'. I lost Jeb to a parachute malfunction during the second mission, but now for the 6th (just 14 in game hours later) he has already come back to life. I know it may be against all that is Kerbal but I'd like to make deaths, including orange suits, permanent for this save. It just makes their lifes and achievements all the more special. I know I can't change the game rules entirely but is there a line in the save file that indicates when an orange suit will return, so I could edit it to 9999 or something when they die so they won't come back for a few million years.

Oh dear. Jeb has already come back from the dead. I may need to adjust my self imposed rules to account for this rapid recovery of orange suits. Or is there some way to modify your save game to make an orange suit 'permanently' dead (is there a time value indicating how long they wait before returning, that I could set to 9999 or something?)

Oh, and EVAs work on Kerbin too. The Destroyer mentions the launchpad, but if you take an orbital/suborbital flight and land elseswhere, like the mountains or the desert you can go EVA and collect a unique report before recovering. Odd that they don't know much about their own planet, but then again the only signs of a settlement are KSC.

Yes. Bob did a free return flyby of the Mun, and his report noted possible landing sites. Also in orbit you can get different reports depending on what you are over (I have done a highlands report and a 'water' report). I'm not going to abuse this to get science in tiny increments, but I do plan on seeing what science you get for doing a report while over the poles.

Science is collected from a number of sources, though performing the exact same thing twice will give greatly diminished returns. You can get science by letting your engineers examine a pod (or probe core I assume) after you recover it from a flight. You can get your first few science points just by flying a rocket up a few km and then safely landing it and clicking the green Recover (the button is now at the top of the screen if you hover over after landing). If your spaceship has been to new interesting places (like flown into orbit or around the Mun for the first time) it counts as new information and earns you science. Your Kerbals can write a report about what they see - I just did a flyby of the Mun and Bob wrote a report about potential Mun landing sites he spotted (that's what the actual report says on screen). Right click a pod and select the report button (I think that's what it's called, it might be make observations). A window will pop up with what the Kerbal has observed and how much science it is worth. Even a low altitude flight has something to report the first time. You can only hold onto 1 report at a time, so you either need to land and recover it or you can transmit it. Transmitting reports only gives you a percentage of its value (when you make a report the window shows a blue dish icon that says something like 50%, indicating what percentage you get if you transmit instead of return it). Transmitting requires a dish or antenna and uses lots of power. I think that transmitting also means you can make more then one report during a mission. Your Kerbals can go on EVA and do EVA reports too. I haven't yet landed on the Mun but this would be a major EVA report opportunity (EVAs in space also provide some science) Once you unlock the tech you can get experiments into space. The first one you will get is the mystery goo container. Basically you right click and open up the container (expose it) sometime during the flight. Depending on where you are something will happen to the biological sample inside. You then need to return the sample to Kerbin for analysis (I haven't worked out if a Kerbal in orbit can observe and transmit a report for a lesser percentage, but I think it's possible).

Without science I would never have had the motivation and the resulting satisfaction from setting this up for the first time: It's my 5th mission, a flyby of the Mun to gather science. In sandbox I would never have a reason to do anything less then entering stable orbit. I've started a fresh career game, using the same personal rules as I used in the sandbox but with a few new ones. The biggest change is that I now play for keeps - no reverts. So far I've just been throwing together rockets without any math, I will probably get back to using an Excel spreadsheet soon, as a Mun landing is coming up and I'll want to bring my Kerman home. Personal Rules -Stock, all manual flying (with the exception of graphical mods like Universe Replacer if I ever install it) -No pancake shaped spaceships on the launchpad. They need to look vaguely flight worthy -No chairs used on anything that travels above 5km -No RTGs near Kerbals or science equipment (in practice they normally go unused) -No running nuclear engines in the atmosphere -No running nuclear engines with living Kerbals onboard (they'll need to use conventional engines) -Extra living space for long term voyages -No intake abuse New Rules for Career Mode -No reverts except for physics glitches -No spamming of experiments to get science -No tech tree spoilers *Mission 1* -Low altitude launch and recovery Engineering Observations -Solid boosters can melt boosters below them after a few seconds, but rockets can't Science Observations -Jeb observes water near KSC Outcome -Jeb flies to about 5km and returns safely with his water observations -This 'water' leads to the discovery of decouplers, mystery goo containers, and more fuel tanks. Somehow *Mission 2* -First Orbital Mission, failed recovery Engineering Observations -Solid boosters placed too close radially will overheat -Even without the solid boosters 3 T400 tanks can get suborbital and 1 more can do orbit Science Observations* -The highlands can be seen from space -Goo forms into clumps -Jeb can move in space Outcome -Jeb orbits Kerbin and performs EVA -Jeb returns. In an effort to save the goo data the pod is not detached from the service module which houses them. -The parachute rips and Jeb crashes into the ground. Jeb is dead -*No observations are returned to KSC *Mission 3* -First successful orbital mission and recovery by Bill Engineering Observations -Engines radially spaced out induce lots and lots of spin -The 3x T400 suborbital stage still fixes everything -Moving the goo containers to the pod improves survivability Science Observations -Water can be seen from space -Goo in the upper atmosphere freezes -Goo in space forms into clumps -Bill can float in space Outcome -Bill returns safely -Data from safe return leads to discovery of 'Survivability'. Now have better orbital engines, landing gear and new parachutes. *Mission 4* -Failed Mun flyby by Lemgun Engineering Observations -Radial engine design is getting worse instead of better. Unable to reach altitude. -New orbiting engine can be used for somewhat soft landing without parachute -Pilot Lemgun Kerman, chosen for his off the chart courage...and stupidity...to make this dangerous Mun flyby proves to be a capable pilot after his launch stage fails, lands without using his parachute. This does however confirm he is stupid, for not using the parachute. Science Observations -Lemgun can see his house. Since there are no other buildings for hundreds of miles he must mean the astronaut complex. Scientists are not impressed by his discovery. -Goo doesn't do much at low altitude -Apparently there is something to learn from a parachute that didn't deploy Outcome -Lemgun Kerman recieves bonus in gold coins for heroic landing. Does not realize they are chocolates. -Kerbal scientists choose to invest research into Stability for future missions, inventing the radial decouplier, nose cone and winglet -General Rocketry is also pursued, creating engines with thrust vectoring and more solid boosters *Mission 5* -Mun flyby by Bob Engineering Observations -Radial design is much improved. Radial decouplers and large solid boosters lead to excellent craft -Bob plots a fantastic free return for a 240km pass over the Mun. Huge fuel reserve left over Science -Bob makes observations for a possible Mun landing site -Bob takes a look around outside and jets around above the Mun -Apparently a rocket that has flown over the Mun is valuable Outcome -Most successful flight yet. Ship performed beyond expectations. -Big science gain, to be invested in more Science Tech, to allow for a new experiment module to be sent up with power and transmission capabilities *Mission 6* Orbital science mission *Mission 7* Recovery test mission *Mission 8* MUN LANDING Mission 9 Probe test mission Mission 10 Biome exploration (failed) Mission 11 Return to the Mun Mission 12 Biome Explorer Retry Mission 13 Make something up for Bill Mission 14 Mun Canyon Mission 15 Eve Unmanned Exploration - Phase 1, Launch - Phase 2, Arrival and Landing - Phase 3, Gilly NEW Mission 16 Deep Space Radiation EVA Mission 17 Minmus, and Duna systems proving Mission 18 Crew Ship Test / Mun Landing Themepark ride Mission 19 Gravity Survey Mission 20 NEW Manned Duna and Ike Expedition

I notice that there is now a pod icon in the staging list - so for example I have an engine, a decoupler, a pod and a parachute. What happens when the pod is 'activated' with the space bar?

I don't like pancake ships either, I ended up with one for the demo and vowed not to build like that in the full version. The result is my launches are much smaller with craft assembled and refueled in orbit. My heaviest tonnage to orbit is a bit over 40 tons (my newest fuel tanker) and my large ships, like my in-development interplanetary supply ship with over 250 tons of fuel is sent into orbit with nearly empty tanks (The booster stage is essentially three X200-16 fuel tanks and three Mainsails, but piped into the ships main fuel system).

I'm not sure if I'm alone in wanting a few extra 0.5m parts, namely some additional fuel tank sizes instead of just the Oscar. Maybe a jet fuel tank and jet engine too (along with some smaller fins to use as rocket control surfaces).

After testing a rover intended for Duna on the Mun my test pilots Jeb and Bob where sent down a lander from my Mun station to bring them back up. To get them back to Kerbin without using up the station's escape capsule, which the rest of the station crew very much wanted to keep, I sent over a spare crew module from my Kerbin station (Bill had already damaged one of its solar panels during an EVA so I was looking for an excuse to get rid of it). However I screwed up the Mun approach and ended up being in an orbit opposite to the station. I looked into flipping the orbit by progressively changing the inclination until it turned over on itself but half way through it seemed like it would use up too much of my delta V so I changed it to a crash course with the Mun and started from scratch, sending up a brand new crew module, fueling it at Kerbin station and flying it to Mun station and back to a Kerbin landing with Jeb and Bob. In hindsight I wonder, based on how Mun landings go, if I couldn't have just literally burned about 600m/s to kill my orbital velocity then kept burning with some altitude adjustment to reset it to the other direction. Essentially land and take off in the correct direction, but skip most of the landing part. I also wonder if this kind of orbital correction is practical (or if there is a better way) on bigger planets with an atmosphere like Duna. When my ion probe first arrived at Duna it was also orbiting the wrong way. Fortunately that probe had tons of delta V and also a planned Ike observation period, so I pulled into orbit around Ike and then when I exited back to Duna I just exited backwards so that I got into the correct Duna orbit.

Why is it only do-able from staging? Powered landings are the one thing I use IVA mode for, as all the important items (navball, vertical speed, ground range) are there.

I've spent a lot of time doing stuff in orbit and at the Mun and Minmus. I clocked up about 2 weeks of in game time. A probe mission to Duna added almost 100 days to that due to travel time. Now I am faced with more then 100-150 days before any realistic launch windows open up. I've done a few other tasks and housekeeping but that adds only a day or so to the in game clock. Is there any thing that I can do that will eat up time, or should I just time warp through 3-6 months? It just feels like I am failing to utilize that time by fast forwarding through it.

It sounds less like the component isn't connected and more like your engines are too powerful compared to the strength of the connection or you have delicate components with the whole ship weighing down on them (this is what launch clamps are for, so you don't break off your engines before leaving the pad). As rodion said it is impossible to have a component that isn't connected, the only way that can happen is if it is connected to the wrong stage when you seperate. You can strengthen connections using struts.

I'm gearing up for a mission to Duna. I've already sent an ion powered probe to learn about interplanetary travel and to engage in a long term observation mission in orbit of Duna and Ike. Now I want to do a manned mission but it's going to be in two parts. The first part is sending 'pathfinder', an advanced unmanned mission designed to accomplish a number of goals: 1. Test aerobreaking on Duna approach. 2. Establish a fuel depot at Duna to support a future manned mission. 3. Drop up 6 to surface probes to scout a good landing site. 4. Delivery and perform a test of the Duna lander under automatic control. I've assembled most of pathfinder already. The probes are the little bits on the left. The fuel to get to Duna is stored in the dropaway tanks that I've brought up and docked to the 'tail' of the ship. What is missing is the Duna lander that will go on the nose docking port. I'd like to reuse my standard manned ascent craft as it would be in the spirit of my space program. It has a Delta-V of over 2000 m/s, so by the cheat sheet it would seem like I can add extra parachutes to keep it in one piece, a ladder and some landing gear to set down with most of the fuel left, then take off again as a SSTO ship. My biggest concern is thrust to weight, since without some math I have no guarentee the ship will be able to take off. The formula seems to suggest that I would take the engine's thrust in kN and divide it by the spacecraft's mass multiplied by the local gravity. So if the craft weighs 17t, gravity is 2.94 m/s2 and thrust is 220 then I get a value of 4.4...and I don't know if that is good or not. Do I have the math right for calculating T/W? What is a good T/W ratio for getting a craft off Duna? (overcoming gravity and the atmosphere). I assume it must be greater then 1 or it wouldn't leave the ground. Have I made a terrible mistake with Delta V for my lander? (Mk1-2 + X200-16 + Poodle can get into orbit with fuel to spare)