Northstar1989

By the way, once more thing I think I should update you guys on; since it's been swimming through my mind a lot lately... The Mission to Duna has fallen even further prey to mod-updates than I let you guys in on before... One of the latest KSP Interstellar mod updates (great mod, I love it, *BUT*...) removed all electrolysis and other In-Situ-Resource-Utilization abilities from the KSP Interstellar Science Lab, as well as the ability to reprocess nuclear fuel (which was entirely revamped, and made much more complex, to the point I don't even pretend to understand quite how it works now just yet...), and moved all of these abilities to a new part: the "ISRU Refinery" (ISRU= In-Situ-Resource-Utilization). The upside to this is that they reduced the mass of the Science Lab part from 3.5 to 2.5 tons (though, technically this is actually a downside for me- since I had plans to recycle the vessels containing my existing Science Labs for RocketParts- and now I won't get quite as many RocketParts from the vessels...) The downside is that the refinery is, though lighter than the original Science Lab (at only 2.5 tons instead of 3.5 tons), even more unwieldy to integrate into an existing rocket design (it can only be attached to on the bottom, or some spittle like that...) AND, worse for me, this change completely obsoletes the Duna Science Module design I sent as part of the Duna Mission- which means that even though it will arrive before the other two modules, it will no longer be able to land on Ike and start electrolyzing regolith in preparation for the arrival of the Crew Module and Duna Heavy Equipment Deployment Platform. Instead, it will just have to wait around in low Dunar orbit until the other two modules arrive- at which point I will be able to transfer out its crew and remaining fuel, build a recycling ship, and scrap it for RocketParts with which to build one of the new ISRU refineries to land on Ike... This will, of course, waste precious fuel over a direct insertion of the Duna Science Module on Ike to begin immediate electrolysis; and further will be complicated by the fact that both the Duna Crew Module and the Duna Heavy Equipment Deployment Platform will lose power shortly after arrival (I forgot before that the Duna Crew Module relies on an unmanned command pod and now update-broken NearFuture reactor as well- as all its crew are cloistered in a Hitchhiker Storage Container...) Only the (otherwise worthless- except as an inefficient crew transport) Duna Science Module will retain electrical power (due to its reliance on still-functional KSP Interstellar reactors rather than NearFuture reactors), and, assuming they don't break during aerobraking or the capture burn- due clipping issues resulting from the change in their length in one of the latest updates- I will need to dock the Duna Science Module with the DHEDP shortly after its arrival to provide it with electrical power until I can manufacture a small RTG-probe to take its place... (the lag from having two such large vessels docked will be ENORMOUS) This is looking like the Duna Mission is going to be an *INTERESTING* experience... Hopefully I can salvage it, before any more idiotic preexisting vessel-breaking mod-updates manage to make the Duna Mission any more, err... *challenging*... EDIT: Oh, and, I'll have to check on this- but it looks like that LiquidFuel tanker I sent on a slow intercept to Duna has been broken by the NearFuture update as well- since I'm pretty sure I designed the thing before NearFuture removed the built-in radiators from their reactors... One *MORE* vessel I'll have to play around with when I have it loaded vs. unloaded just to ensure it doesn't run out of electricity before it can capture into a stable Dunar orbit... At this point, I'm pretty sure the only vessels that will still have stable electrical power in the Duna system will be the Duna Science Module (*IF* the reactors don't break due to clipping issues from the latest KSP Interstellar update changing their length), and the Long-Range Argon Probe I sent there for a gravity-assist: which is powered by RTG's, and might just end up being used to save my Duna mission if nothing else works... Regards, Northstar

OK, not much to report today, but a quick update... (OK, what update of mine has ever been *QUICK*, lately? Anyways...) Here you can catch some nice images of the new spacedock I set up in orbit of the Mun (named, not very creatively, "Munar Spacedock") as I performed crew and resource transfers to the new vessel (I started off the vessel with as much of the original spacedock's resources already onboard as possible- but due to the incremental sliders used to adjust allocation of resources to a new ship using Orbital Construction, I then had to close the small distance to where it constructed and transfer the small amount of remaining resources on the Early Spacedock to the new Munar Spacedock...) Some of you might notice the new spacedock looks an awful lot like my 350km Kerbin Orbital Depot. That's because I took much the same strategy on this version to minimize part-count: though due to the very large vessels that will eventually be docking with it, I decided not to include any research capabilities in the Munar Spacedock to save even further on part-count (and thus reduce lag). The Early Spacedock will soon be recycled by my Heavy Scrapper Ship (once I transfer it to Munar orbit) and the RocketParts deposited in the new Munar Spacedock. However, due to the very high part-counts necessary to store any significant amount of KSP Interstellar reactor fuel outside of actual reactors (in the HexCans the newer versions provide- which have very limited capacity), I will be constructing a separate depot for the reactor fuel still on board the Early Spacedock- which I will want to transfer out before recycling the Early Spacedock to avoid the fuel disappearing into nothing. The depot will be based on the HexCans included in KSP Interstellar, as a large enough number of (deactivated) reactors to store an equivalent amount of reactor fuel would require a much higher Dry Mass, as the reactors have a much lower fuel-fraction than the HexCans... However, even so, the Munar Spacedock doesn't yet have enough RocketParts on board to construct a sufficiently large fissile fuel depot- as I used virtually all my freely available RocketParts to construct the Munar Spacedock (which I wanted to make even bigger- but was limited by the quantity of available raw materials...) So, I won't be constructing the fissile fuel depot until I can get one of the several fuel tankers I have in parking orbits around Kerbin to the Munar Spacedock, and recycle it for RocketParts after unloading all its fuel to the Munar Spacedock. And I won't be scrapping the Early Spacedock until I can unload all of its reactor fuel... (the reactor is almost finished cooling down, as I manually deactivated it some time ago as of writing this, so I will soon be able to safely transfer fuel in and out of the reactor) Which all means, in summary, that I still have some time to change my mind about scrapping the Early Spacedock. It is a rather beautiful ship, after all (IMHO). The Munar Spacedock, by contrast, is a rather ugly vessel... I probably won't keep the Early Spacedock as my Munar Hub, due to its high part-count (which would cause SERIOUS lag near some of the very large interplanetary vessels I will be refueling and constructing in Munar orbit) and comparatively low fuel storage capacity to the Munar Spacedock- but I could very well reassign it as a tried-and-tested long-range research vessel (it does have more than enough Delta-V storage-capacity to reach places like Jool, Eelo, or Moho), one sure not to have any of the fuel-crossfeed issues of my previous Nuclear Science Lab; or I could move it to a less-crowded location like Minmus orbit, where I could utilize it as a secondary spacedock location, and, once again, a research station (for Science Points- which I need a LOT more of to unlock the remaining KSP Interstellar tech nodes, such as Fusion Power). Let me know what you guys think about this- I really can't make up my mind whether I should just scrap the Early Spacedock for (at this point) badly-needed RocketParts to establish my Munar colony, or instead load it up with enough fuel (and maybe some RocketParts- to construct a couple landers and possibly a small surface outpost- much smaller and less independent than my planned Mun colony) to reach some other location (such as Eeloo, Dres, or Vall- I'm particularly eying the cold and icy planets/moons- as I'd like to test out the ISRU refinery's electrolysis abilities on ice; and the ship's large nuclear reactor is better suited for operation far away from the Sun, where solar panels would be less effective...), where it could still see many years of active service as a research station and minor spacedock... This would also save my the headache of trying to salvage the vessel's remaining reactor fuel right now... Regards, Northstar

Alright, so, guys, (hopefully some people are still paying attention to this thread) another update on the Blackhawk Mk6, and its progress towards Duna... [The Blackhawk leaving low-altitude Kerbin orbit...] I started this baby out a little differently than I do with most of my interplanetary missions- with a Munar transfer designed for capture and (relative) circularization, rather than a Munar gravity assist... Proximally, that's because it will be refueling in Munar orbit (even though it carries more than enough fuel for a straight transfer- in fact, more than enough fuel for a Dunar aerocapture and return without refueling once if I was willing to put my Kerbals through a sufficiently low-energy transfer...) Ultimately, though, that's because I want to perform a gravity slingshot off Kerbin (you heard me right- Kerbin, using its velocity relative to the Mun and Duna) to get to Duna faster- as well as the two periapsis burns this gives me to utilize the Oberth effect to its greatest potential. Now, some of you might be wondering- why Kerbin? Surely I must be crazy right? You perform gravity slingshots off a moon, to get to a more distant planet- not the other way around... Well, yes and no. If I was simply going for Delta-V straight off gravity to escape the Kerbin system, with no other goal in mind; then yes- I would only perform gravity assists off the Mun and never off Kerbin... (except where a Munar gravity assist manages to shoot me directly back towards Kerbin- which is awesome...) However, it's more complicated than hat. You see, this nice little thing called the Oberth effect comes into play. It says that the faster you are moving when you fire a rocket's engines off, the more energy you get off the burn (since E=(1/2)mv^2, but a rocket's engines will produce the same Delta-V for the same amount of fuel burned no matter how fast the vessel is moving- until it starts to approach the speed of light...). And, a corollary to that is- you can perform a more powerful burn (one that gives you more energy) the stronger the gravity field is holding you in where you perform the burn- meaning you can utilize the effect more fully when you are closer to a planet or moon, and when it is more massive- as the increased gravity will keep you from shooting off into space for a longer period of time, allowing you more time to fire off the engines... So, to take maximum advantage of the Oberth effect, I need to perform my transfer burn to Duna when I'm really close to Kerbin (though most definitely not in the atmosphere, due to drag), and moving really fast. Which means, a highly elliptical orbit with a really close periapsis to Kerbin will allow me to get the most energy from the fuel the Blackhawk (or any other vessel) can carry with it if full... And that leaves me with basically two options to establish such an orbit. Either (a) I can establish an extremely-high orbit around Kerbin, and then a massive retrograde/radially-inward burn to establish a close periapsis at as high a speed as possible... or ( I can establish an orbit around the Mun or Minmus, and then depart from there, still arriving at periapsis with a great deal of speed- as energy is stored in the orbit around the moon as well as the orbit around the planet. Option ( makes the most sense of course. Even without KSP Interstellar, Extraplanetary Launchpads, or the Kethane Pack installed, and the great advantages the Mun thus provides me as also being a potential mining hub for no fewer than four different raw resources (Ore, Kethane, Uranium, and Thorium), virtually unlimited repository of regolith (which KSP Interstellar lets me electrolyze to produce Aluminum and Oxidizer), and spacecraft-construction site (this challenge required me to build my vessel on Kerbin- but that doesn't mean I can't send off fuel tankers and other unrelated missions from the Mun, constructed out of RocketParts mined from Ore on the Mun; and fueled with LiquidFuel and Oxidizer, refined from Kethane and regolith respectively, from the Mun...)- the Mun also has the advantage of being much closer to Kerbin, and thus quicker to get to, than an ultra-high orbit around Kerbin... So, long tangent about the other advantages of the Mun over an ultra-high Kerbin orbit aside; the Mun allows me to Kerbin-dive quite effectively for two even more important reasons. One, its gravity constantly rotates a portion of my spacecraft's total velocity about in a circle not necessarily always parallel to Kerbin's horizon- which means it does some of the velocity-turning for my craft using its gravity (essentially, what I need to do in order to Kerbin-dive is turn the craft's velocity close to 90 degrees inwards relative to Kerbin), so it doesn't have to it all with its fuel- reducing the total Delta-V requirements of Kerbin-diving. And two, it allows me to take advantage of the Oberth effect a second (earlier) time on a much smaller scale- since some of the craft's velocity will already start out pointing in the direction I want to burn in... So, if I haven't put you all to sleep with that super-long tangent, the plan was/is this: first, I moved the Blackhawk Mk6 to a high Munar orbit, as you can see above/below. Soon, I will move it to a somewhat lower orbit to amplify the advantages of the Mun's gravity-field (I circularized it in a higher orbit because of its low TWR- it would have taken a longer burn near Kerbin to push it closer to the Mun, and my burn near Kerbin was already longer than I would have liked- at over 2.5 minutes total. I was also too tired, doing this too much by the seat of my pants, and too busy with a simultaneous transfer of my Early Spacedock to Munar orbit- which didn't go quite as smoothly as planned; to think of performing an adjustment burn to move the Blackhawk's periapsis closer en-route...) There, it will dock with a fuel tanker, and top off its fuel tanks one last time. From there, it will perform an escape burn from the Mun targeted to give it a low periapsis (but as high a speed as possible) near Kerbin. At periapsis with Kerbin, the Blackhawk will perform a transfer burn for Duna (thanks to its high speed at periapsis, Kerbin's gravity will also be less capable of pulling the vessel off-course in a radially-inward direction in the limited time it is close by- which is especially important as the Blackhawk has a rather limited TWR...) Finally, at Duna, the Blackhawk will perform a Dunar aerobrake and/or gravity-brake with Ike to allow for capture and safe (low-speed) atmospheric-entry with its limited remaining LFO supply at that point (I will be utilizing a high-energy transfer to get the Blackhawk to Duna in less time- and Duna is currently at closest approach to Kerbin, which drastically increases minimum direct-transfer Delta-V requirements over an ideal transfer window...) Luckily, my design doesn't require ANY fuel (aside from a limited mass of fissile reactor fuel) to fly in-atmosphere on Duna, so at least I don't have to worry about that... I hope I didn't put you guys all to sleep with that. Here are pictures of the Blackhawk's Munar transfer (and the before/after), by the way. Remember, all this is for my challenge run... -Northstar out-

First of all, here are some very nice screenshots of the Blackhawk Mk6 on its way towards the Mun: Also, screenshots I captured of the adjustment burns (there were two- made close together but with low Delta-V changes, to increase the accuracy of the predicted course changes) to fine-tune the Munar approach of the Early Spacedock: It turned out, though, that these adjustments set the SOI entries of the Balckhawk Mk6 and Early Spacedock to be practically identical (4 minutes apart). Coordinating the simultaneous transfers of both a SSTDABK spaceplane and a mobile space-station to Munar orbit with such similar SOI entries seemed like it MIGHT be a *little* tricky... Luckily, their trajectories within the Mun's SOI proved radically different: I decided to place the Early Spacedock in a much lower Munar orbit (300km) than the Blackhawk Mk6(1800km), to allow future missions departing from the spacedock to take maximum advantage of the Oberth effect, as well as to lower the Delta-V requirements for reusable Munar SSTO craft to reach the spacedock (in order to have any kind of a sustainable presence on the Mun, I can't afford to be staging off boosters or such, only to have them explosively impact with the Mun's surface- no matter how heavy the payload. And I will *eventually* be lifting some VERY heavy payloads of fuel and RocketParts from the Mun's surface to Munar orbit...) This does mean I will want to be sending a tanker to top off the Blackhawk, however...

OK, another update- but this one on the Early Spacedock (I'm going to be piecing this out into a bunch of posts because I've got simultaneous Munar transfers going on for both the Early Spacedock and the Blackhawk Mk6- as it just so happened, their transfer windows fell very close to each other). Previously, I maneuvered the Early Spacedock into a highly elliptical orbit around Kerbin to place it on a transfer orbit to the Mun the next time around- due to its low TWR. Here's the orbital map just before initiating the second part of the transfer maneuver: The Early Spacedock is equipped with a 3.75 meter Thermal Rocket Nozzle- powered by a 3.75 meter KSP Interstellar molten sodium fission reactor (which also doubles as an overpowered electrical source with its coupled 3.75 meter electrical generator- which I used in preference to a smaller diameter to avoid possible stability issues. Remember the entire craft was launched vertically from the Launchpad on Kerbin...) I feel the need to point this out, because it contributes to an interesting quirk when MechJeb tries to calculate remaining Delta-V in the craft. See if you can't spot it in the album images below: Some of you with a careful eye for detail might have noticed that the calculated Delta-V actually INCREASES (by quite a lot) from the first screenshots to the later ones. I'm not cheating or anything- that's for two reasons: The first is because the Thermal Rocket Nozzle is capable of two propellant settings: LFO mode, and LiquidFuel-only mod. No, these modes aren't for vacuum vs. atmospheric use (actually, the LFO mod works better in the atmosphere, for reasons following)- the reactor superheats the propellants and spits them out the back at high speeds using its thermal energy either way (it is NOT an air-breathing system). The difference, as I understand it, is that in LFO mode the LiquidFuel is allowed to combust with the Oxidizer at some point in the propulsion process- for additional thrust but reduced ISP- whereas in LiquidFuel-only mode the LiquidFuel (KSP Interstellar assumes it to be liquid hydrogen) is only superheated and expelled-without combustion; for approximately one-third better ISP (about 800 rather than 600- on par with a stock NERVA, but with far inferior TWR), but only half the thrust. Now, obviously, the LFO mode is superior to the LiquidFuel-only mode if you need to achieve high thrust for optimal performance (such as during a high-Delta-V burn, or when taking off from the surface of a planet). It's also useful if you have a cheap and unlimited source of Oxidizer (such as I hoped my atmospheric-scoop ship would provide, before I discovered that the technology is woefully inadequate to the task... And some people call KSP Interstellar "overpowered". Hah...), since you essentially get over 50% more Delta-V per ton of LiquidFuel (and better thrust) if you combine it with Oxidizer... However, when you're trying to get a craft as far as possible on a given weight in fuel, LiquidFuel-only mode is the better option... Anyways, tangent to explain the technology aside, the Early Spacedock carried a SMALL amount of Oxidizer on board (salvaged by my scrapper ships from one of the direlict hulks orbiting Kerbin, that still happened to have some LFO mix left in it when it was decoupled from the main vessel...), and a much greater quantity of LiquidFuel. So, as a result, I started the engine in LFO-mode, until I had burned up all my Oxidizer (ALWAYS burn up your lower-ISP fuel first, if you're already in orbit and trying to get the most Delta-V out of a craft. For mathematical reasons I don't care to explain right now, you'll get a lot further that way...), at which point I switched the Early Spacedock to LiquidFuel-only mode, to perform the remaining majority of the burn. The result of all this was, MechJeb calculated Delta-V separately for each fuel-mode of the engine: and as a result, it calculated I had a much GREATER quantity of Delta-V available after I switched fuel mode. This wasn't the only thing going on, of course. I also ran into issues with Fuel-Crossfeed not working properly- so I had to use TAC Fuel Balancer to keep transferring LiquidFuel from the peripheral fuel tanks (the ones attached by girder segments near the engines) to the main one (the fuel tank on the opposite side of the craft from the engines) even though the "peripheral" tanks were in fact closer to the engines, and the only additional parts they had in between were one XL-girder segment each... This also resulted in apparent "increases" in my total Delta-V: as MechJeb could only calculate Delta-V from the fuel immediately available to the rocket engine, and as the craft's overall weight came down, the amount of Delta-V that the LiquidFuel in the main tank (always full- due to TAC Fuel Balancer refilling it from the peripheral tanks) could be used for constantly increased... Anyways, I hope you're all satisfied I wasn't cheating or anything (this is especially important this time, as this is also part of my challenge run for the "Flying Duna" challenge, since the Balckhawk Mk6 meets all the challenge's requirements for an SSTDABK craft...)- the Early Spacedock's overall Delta-V definitely WAS decreasing as it progressed through its burn- only MechJeb wasn't capable of calculating this correctly due to the issues mentioned above... The Early Spacedock is currently on an intercept with the Mun. The orbital map was doing something screwy where it kept bouncing around in showing the (rather distant) intercept- which isn't about to smash into the Mun or anything (I don't THINK- the velocity difference when it reaches the Mun's SOI *should* be enough to avoid a collision, if I made the burn half as accurately as I hoped...), so really leaves me quite in the dark as to what was going on... Regardless, I'm going to be making a couple adjustment burns on the way (look for them in the next post on the Early Spacedock), and soon the Early Spacedock will arrive in the Mun's SOI, perform a capture burn, and then adjust its position to where I figure out I want the upgraded spacedock (lower part-count, less Dry Mass uselessly allocated to structural supports that aren't needed anymore for a non-mobile permanent space station, a less overpowered and lighter electrical system, and higher capacity for both LiquidFuel and Oxidizer) to be constructed, to replace the main spacedock and perform its designed functions of acting as a major hub and point-of-origin for many of my future missions from the Kerbin system... Regards, Northstar

Thanks. I appreciate it. In gratitude, here's a quick mini-update (I've currently got the game running the background). I'm sending the Blackhawk Mk6 to high Munar orbit as I speak, where it will rendezvous with the Early Spacedock, or a tanker (depending on how the burn goes- and if the Blackhawk Mk6 experiences less lag near the Mun. Right now its lag is too crippling near Kerbin to even consider bringing it within loading distance of the Spacedock) to top off its fuel supplies one last time, before engaging in maneuvers to set it on a transfer orbit to Duna: Regards, Northstar P.S. I think I've narrowed down the cause of the Blackhawk's lag issues to having a lot of control surfaces in vacuum... (the surfaces still move as if trying to maneuver the plane) My spaceplanes typically experiences MUCH MORE lag in space than they do in the upper atmosphere. The Blackhawk Mk6 has quite a few (eight) control surfaces, as you can see...

OK, so I've been sitting on this update for a while, but I got busy with real-life stuff and forgot to post it... Not a ton to report really, but I launched another, even longer-range version of the Argon Probe (I can't remember all the refinements to the design, but if you look carefully you'll notice this version has a couple extra fuel tanks built into the booster stage...) Mainly, I just wanted to give you guys (if anyone is reading this) a better set of images of the launch and whatnot, and close-ups of the probe section- but I also wanted to make sure I could hit Dres, all Jool's moons, and the Sentar system (from Krag's Planet Factory)- and even with its insane Delta-V budget, I'm not sure just one probe could accomplish all that... Enjoy: Regards, Northstar

Yeah- I was just PM'ing Geschosskopf about that (in a private discussion we've had going back-and-forth) particular plan a second ago... The nicest thing about that plan is, since it works with thermonuclear (fusion explosions, initiated by a smaller fission reaction) warheads; you can get exponentially increasing ISP, and steadily increasing thrust, the more you scale it up- as the ratio of fusion to fission warhead content tilts more and more towards fusion content... (fission content remains essentially unchanged- all additional mass is in fusion content) Several of the designs that were developed for that (it was developed starting in the 50's, not the 60's, by the way) had an engine base with a diameter on the order of KILOMETERS, as a result- and were capable of moving megatons, or even gigatons (with the larger designs), of payload to Mars... They did develop and launch (on a low ballistic trajectory) a very small model-version that utilized small chemical explosive packets, rather than nuclear explosives, as proof-of-concept, by the way... (and it worked as planned!) The video of it nowadays can be found floating around somewhere on YouTube according to one source... EDIT: By the way, for those who were curious- no, I still haven't gotten the Blackhawk Mk6 or the Eagle Mk2 to Duna yet.. (though the latter is currently en-route). I got rather involved with real-life things lately, and spending my gaming time playing Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri (which I figured out how to get working on my current laptop- having previously only been able to play it on an old desktop my family had a long time ago, when I was still in high school)- which is a GREAT game by the way, for anyone who wants to dig up a copy (it's abandonware from over 10 years ago, so you really don't need to own a copy like I do- the company really doesn't care about the title anymore) and give it a try... If you do give the game a try, get your hands on the Alien Crossfire expansion as well- it adds a few nice additional "Secret Projects", and even two factions of an alien race (at civil-war with itself) if you want to make them one or two of the 6 factions you compete against, or even play as one... (I typically do neither- it's not required, and I prefer the human storyline) in a single-player game... (there's Multiplayer built into the game too- though almost nobody plays it anymore)

I decided the best place to send the Blackhawk Mk6 off from would be from orbit of the Mun (it will allow me to correctly angle at Duna, and perform a sort of modified gravity slingshot around Kerbin- with a long ejection burn at periapsis). I need every bit of velocity I can get, considering how far Duna is from the ideal transfer window. I've also been meaning to get my Early Spacedock out there- to set up a permanent outpost on the Mun- and maybe launch an additional supply ship towards Duna from there (considering the electrical problems with the Duna Heavy Equipment Deployment Platform, thanks to the NearFuture update...) So, I got my Heavy Scrapper Ship busy draining the fuel from an old piece of debris that still had a bunch of fuel left in it for some reason... I had bad lag issues, so I got distracted, and forgot to take some pics while I was docked with the debris (the Scrapper Ship carries an extra KAS connector for attachment to debris that still have useful resources- think of it as the Kerbal drilling through the hull- though it was unnecessary in this case, since the debris already had a radial connector port on it), but there is one image of the fuel tank on approach at least: After filling the Early Spacedock's LiquidFuel tanks close to full, I decided to start repositioning it towards the Mun, rather than make additional runs that could mostly only add Oxidizer to its fuel tanks (the Scrapper Ship is waiting for a transfer window to begin moving the rest of the fuel to the Orbital Resupply Depot at 350,000 meters as I speak) And finally, somewhere in between (actually a little before) all this, my Kerbals found time to launch a new line of advanced probe from Kerbin's surface, destined for the Jool system. It's currently on an intercept course for Duna- since it carries some new instruments that would be useful for a flyby there- like a Kethane Detector and a Gamma Ray Detector (used to find KSP Interstellar radioactive fuels- as uranium reprocessing is now no longer 100% efficient, and a lot more complex than before. I think it also produces some Science Points). The idea is to perform a gravity assist off Duna (and maybe Ike too) and then head off for Dres (for another flyby and gravity assist) if possible, or straight for the Jool system... It's equipped with parachutes, atmosphere sensors, and seismic sensors- so its last act will probably be to land on Laythe... As you might notice, the launch vehicle was fairly small- but made use of some rather large winglets, to reduce its Delta-V expenditures and ideal TWR to orbit (it's something of a hybrid of a spaceplane and a rocket- though it launches upright, and doesn't have enough lift or burn-time for quite as prolonged atmospheric flight) At the end, you can see it finishing up its ejection burn from the Kerbin system (it had more than enough TWR to do this straight from low Kerbin orbit with just a NearFuture inline NERVA engine, since its overall weight was quite low... I forgot about that part on my previous rant- it's probably the only truly useful part in the whole mod besides the Megalador solar panel array- though the final stage of the probe does make use of an ArgonGas propulsion system...)

Alright, here's an album of the launch of the final version of my Heavy LFO Tanker. This particular one will be used to refuel the Early Spacedock once it reaches Munar orbit. In the future, I will be performing a lot of near-Kerbin refueling missions using this version (I prefer fewer, heavier launches, to lots of small ones)- and fewer with the Medium LFO Tanker design (which doesn't feature nuclear engines, and so has an even shorter range). I suppose I might also build an even heavier and longer-range variant, for sending tankers to Jool and such, that would be unmanned and designed for in-orbit construction- but for now this is what I'll be working with. Also, don't expect to see images of every stage of my refueling missions from here on- I'm going to generally keep it to one or two images per tanker launch, or none at all, in the interests of keeping the picture clutter on my Imgur account from getting any more out-of-hand. One more thing. I hope you haven't all forgotten my Duna flotilla now? Well it turns out it's going to face a few technical difficulties when it arrives at Duna... The biggest issue is that when NearFuture mod updated to 0.30, they swapped their built-in radiators on all their reactors for ones you have to attach manually to the reactor surface- which seems completely pointless and a waste of part-count to me. It also creates the MAJOR issue of breaking all previous designs that utilized NearFuture reactors with the built-in reactors. Since I updated my NearFuture mod to 0.30 today, that affects my Duna flotilla as well... It's not an issue that's going to doom my manned vessels (the Duna Science Module and Dune Crew Module)- though it will drastically reduce their available electricity for maneuvering. However it WILL lead to my Duna Heavy Equipment Platform, which is unmanned, running out of electricity rather soon after I next load it- which means I will need to keep it unloaded except for when actively executing the capture burns- and it will lose power shortly after entering stable Duna orbit... I know exploiting the game's loading/unloading mechanics to keep an unmanned vessel running without a source of electricity is a bit, err, questionable, most of the time. But so is a vessel with a big, heavy nuclear reactor for power that I painstakingly lifted to orbit, suddenly losing its built-in radiators for no reason (except the guys at NearFuture playing cheap copycats of KSP Interstellar mod's reactor heat and fueling mechanics- and doing a bad job of it at that- for instance, their new reactor fuel HAS NO MASS!) - so we'll all have to grimace and bear it this time around... Much more nonsense like this form NearFuture, though, and I'm just going to stop updating that mod. It's already broken enough as-is with their terrible nuclear reactor power:mass ratios. I know some people think the ratios in KSP Interstellar (its main competitor) are OP'd and unrealistic (they're actually quite accurate, by the way, at least until Fusion Power) but the guys at NearFuture don't seem to understand that a NUCLEAR REACTOR HAS *ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE* BETTER POWER DENSITY THAN A SOLAR PANEL! Instead, they implement these weak little reactors that barely beat out OX-STAT panels (when facing the sun) on a mass-power-ratio basis; and then actually nerf them by removing their built-in radiators and requiring separate radiators (and higher total part-count and mass) just to keep the reactors operational. Oh, and they add reactor fuel consumption as well- but manage to make the new fuel mass-less, and instead make it so all the weight of the fuel is reflected in the mass of the container you carry it in... As if their existing fuel weights weren't already far enough off the mark (I mean, they do realize Argon is a DENSER element than Hydrogen or Oxygen, aka. the likely components of LFO-mix, right? And it can easily be stored in liquid form, like LFO mix, or even solid form- its melting point being not much lower than Oxygen's boiling point...) Honestly, the only reason I keep that silly mod installed is because (1) their smallest reactors are still less massive than KSP Interstellar's smallest reactors (good for ships with low power requirements that can't get by on solar or RTG's) and (2) The mod has a giant solar array ('Megalador' Solar Array)- which is useful for bringing down part-count on my KSP Interstellar Microwave Power Stations... Regards, Northstar

Ok, here are pics of my refueling and crew-transfer mission to the Blackhawk Mk6... Once again, this is for the challenge-run: The Blackhawk Mk6 now has about 4200 m/s vacuum Delta-V, and two crew members. Hopefully that will be enough fuel to get her to Duna- which is now almost at closest approach to Kerbin (and well beyond the ideal transfer window for low Delta-V use)- without having to wait for a better transfer window... Also, some of you might have noticed the LFO-tanker is missing its three top-stage LV-N NERVA engines in the later pictures. That's because they popped off the moment I decoupled the top stage for some unknown reason, despite it being a completely unpowered stage separation (and the engines were far enough from the decoupler not to be impacted by any decoupler-force). I think it might have been a clipping issue (the radial flanges I used have problems with not extending quite far enough out to avoid clipping with parallel attachments- despite this being precisely what they were designed for...) This tanker-launch was only supposed to be a test-flight anyways, but since it made it to orbit, I figured I'd go with it... Hopefully none of this disqualifies this challenge run in some way? Regards, Northstar

Thanks. Here are some nice images of my refueling mission to it: I had to develop an entirely new heavier line of fuel tanker just to carry up enough fuel to refuel the thing (my previous LFO-tanker designs could only carry up about 4000 units LiquidFuel + corresponding Oxidizer). It's still not done yet, but I did manage to get up one of my test flights into orbit to refuel the thing, despite some problems with control (you might notice the tanker is tilting slightly retrograde only a short distance off the launchpad) and damage it suffered during stage separation... You might also notice that the uppermost stage is missing its three LV-N nuclear engines in the later pictures. That was because they popped off the moment I detached the final stage- apparently due to clipping issues, as they weren't close enough to the decoupler for the decoupler-force to impact them... It still had its three Inline Fusion NERVA engines though, so I still managed to circularize the orbit and rendezvous with the spaceplane, as can be seen... The LFO-tanker carried a lot more fuel than the spaceplane alone needed, however- I didn't want to possibly have to develop even heavier models in the future. So, it will be hauling the rest of its fuel to the LFO depot at 350,000 meters fairly soon... In the meantime, I have a few more test-flights to launch to better refine the LFO-tanker design (any copies that make it to orbit, I'll keep of course- why go through the effort of launching all over again with an only slightly improved version?) Regards, Northstar

AMAZING article. Glad I read it...

One last thought- don't get me wrong on this, antimatter is NOT overpowered in terms of it being unrealistic. Those kinds of feats (500 ton station with a 200 ton launcher) are MORE THAN FEASIBLE with antimatter, in real life. It's perfectly within the laws of physics. The only problem is, as stated, that kind of refinement of the technology is centuries off. Even seeing use of antimatter power on spacecraft at all (most likely early on not to power thermal rocket engines directly, but to power huge arrays of ion engines) is still at least a century or two away... Given what's possible with fusion and antimatter someday, mankind WILL be colonizing places like Mars at some point- the question is just WHEN? (do we wait for more advanced propulsion systems- or pull something like "Mars Direct" and rely heavily on unamnned tech and in-situ-resource-utilization) Considering my SSTDABK spaceplane utilizes mostly technology that is currently available (the power densities of the level-2 1.25 meter fission reactors are actually exceeded by some of the better/bigger fission reactors nowadays- and thermal turbojets were designed back in the 1960's, just never put to use due to concerns over crew radiation exposure... The only currently undeveloped technology is the two in-line fusion NERVA's it utilizes...), I'd say we could do Mars *NOW* if we really wanted... We might irradiate a few of the early astronauts badly enough to give some of them cancer after a couple years- but I guess that's just the price we'd pay for progress.

I don't mean to make this into a spaceplane-thread, but I proudly present the Blackhawk Mk-6: This is my first SSTDABK-capable spaceplane: quite an impressive feat for a plane with almost unlimited flying time without refueling on Duna if you ask me... It turns out I didn't need Fusion Power to build such a craft- I just needed a VERY high fuel-fraction (even higher than the Blackhakw Mk5). As is, the craft can only cruise at a maximum altitude of 8435 meters on Kerbin when fully-fueled. Of course, it can fly MUCH higher without all that heavy LFO, so it should be capable of performing quite well at low and medium altitudes on Duna- provided I don't try and fly around there with full fuel tanks of rocket fuel... Given its low altitude ceiling, I was almost better-off just using electric propellers (which could provide the same thrust at much lower weight at such a low altitude)- but propellers don't contribute nearly as much thrust on the climb out of Kerbin orbit before the air becomes too thin for them to work correctly... Nor will they work nearly as well at the relatively higher altitudes the plane should be capable of cruising at on Kerbin or Duna when her fuel tanks are empty...

Those are some of the problems I was mentioning about it being OP'd. The necessary size of the reactors for fusion being just one issue. As for antimatter, I'm not talking about experimental use- I'm talking about literally producing TONS of the stuff, like you do in KSP Interstellar, and blithely pumping it around a ship. That's at least a couple centuries off... Anyways, limited to level-2 fission reactors and basic thermal turbojets, I finally developed my first SSTDABK-capable spaceplane! I respectfully submit the (not very creatively named) Blackhawk Mk6... Since this plane is SSTDABK-capable, and already in orbit, this also marks the beginning of my challenge-run with it (I will be sending it to Duna after sending up a replacement crew- the pilot was a low-stats expendable test pilot- and a refueling tanker, as it used up ALL its fuel reaching a equatorial prograde 150/100 km Api/Peri orbit) I invite anybody looking through the album to notice a couple pics in particular: First, there's the flight log screen. As you notice, it shows the (rather insane) flight time of over 5 *HOURS*. That wasn't because the plane took nearly that long to climb to its maximum Kerbin cruising altitude of 8435 meters (when fully loaded with fuel), but rather because I left the autopilot (aka. MechJeb ASAS) on while I went and took a long nap. When I got back, the plane was at a stable cruise at maximum altitude- which just shows how stable and long-lived the design is in flight... From that pic alone, I calculate the plane flew halfway around Kerbin while I was asleep (not very far, I know- but it was cruising very low). The second thing I wanted to point out is the radiation exposure meter ("Radiation Level") on my Kerbal during EVA, while performnig a manual shutdown of the fission reactors... I know there's been some discussion of KSP Interstellar being overpowered here, so I wanted to point this out because radiation exposure management is one of the two (not fully implemented) major obstacles it adds to the game that help counterbalance its (realistic until fusion) technological advantages. The other other obstacle is WasteHeat management, which is already implemented. When your Kerbals can die from radiation exposure, or your vessel can explode from heat-buildup, it starts to seem a lot less OP'd... (For those curious- the radiation exposure my Kerbal was experiencing was mostly from solar radiation, rather than my ship's three, inactive at the time, fission reactors. The level declined heavily whenever I was moving towards Periapsis, an climbed whenever I moved towards Apoapsis- indicating my Kerbal was benefiting heavily from the protection of Kerbin's magnetic field...) I was shutting down the fission reactors to save uranium, by the way. My ship relies on a single RTG (visible just above the engines in some screenshots) rather than a much heavier (and unnecessarily powerful) KSP Interstellar Electric Generator to provide the electrical power for its SAS wheels... A KSP Interstellar generator would also compete with the thermal turbojets for the level-2 fission reactors' (very limited) power supply... Finally, for those still wondering about the Blackhawk-6's low altitude ceiling: it will fly *MUCH* higher when it's not carrying all that heavy LFO rocket fuel around... You may have noticed from the screenshots its mass is only about 22 tons when empty (it's over 46.5 tons when fully fueled)- with 3 (20-30kN) thermal turbojets and quite a lot of wing area, that's more than enough to fly quite high on Duna.

For those interested, the Blackhawk Mk5: My first suborbital thermal turbojet design- and very close to a full-on spaceplane- but the trade-offs for it were significant (don't get me started on the "balance" of KSP Interstallar mod. It's quite balanced BEFORE you discover Fusion Power... The mod seems to buy into the popular, yet completely false, idea that controlled fusion would still be a drastic improvement over fission in its very early and unrefined stages...) Her altitude ceiling is only 10,000 meters on Kerbin when fully loaded with fuel (at least twice that when empty), and her crew capacity was dropped from 13 down to 2... And, the design is still only suborbital... Though I think all I need to fix that is a little better TWR...

Aww, a different category? I agree with Steven- Interstellar is rather balanced until you get to fusion reactors and level 3 fissions. In fact, even with my best engineering effort, I *STILL* haven't been able to build an SSTDABK-capable spaceplane with the level-2 fission reactors- though at this point I've come extremely close, with a suborbital design: The Blackhawk Mk5 This is, as you can see, pushing the absolute limits of what's possible with lvl-2 fission reactors and basic thermal turbojets, while still maintaining a low enough wingload to permit safe landing... With a little more refinement, I *might* have a SSTDABK. But this is hardly possible without KSP Interstellar mod- unless you make a vessel that flies as a rocket-plane on Duna. So, I'm not really sure it's the mod- I think it's the really advanced tech levels it offers that go all super-futuristic. Stick with your principles man. How about limiting it to vessels using pre-fusion reactors (fission reactors before their final upgrade with Fusion Power) vs. those after the "discovery" of controlled fusion power technology? IMHO, the Interstellar mod fusion-reactors are quite overpowered. The fission reactors, not so much... Don't make me mention antimatter- the technology is realistic as implemented, but in reality, antimatter power is, I don't know, CENTURIES off... My current tech level is quite balanced. For instance, to get a design that can even go suborbital, I had to load up so much fuel that the thing's altitude ceiling is only 10,000 meters when full fueled (the atmospheric pressure barely above sea level on Duna- which means it needs to fly with a partial or empty LFO load when on Duna...) I also had to drop ALL the extra crew capacity beyond the minimum of 2, and stick with one of the lightest cockpit types. (Fission) nuclear reactor/thermal turbojets are HEAVY- each pair weighs between 2 and 3 tons (depending on reactor loading) and only produces between 19 and 36 kN of thrust! (depending on altitude) That's actually very inferior to electric propellers at low altitudes on Duna, *IF* you use the "Cargo Throttle" setting on the electric propellers... (through Action Groups- raises maximum thrust by 50%, as well as EC/s consumption) Which was, by the way, the trick I discovered before- from reading the Firespitter Parts Guide... Oh and Steven, yes, the thermal turbojet force output DOES fall off with increasing speed. I've tested this extensively with the fission-powered ones I've been limited to. Just with the fusion-powered ones you used, the effect might not have been noticeable enough on that beast of a plane... Regards, Northstar

Doesn't look like any of my spaceplane attempts can make it to Duna on their own power yet... I'll probably have to wait on developing some more advanced tech nodes- with the Fusion Power tech, I should be able to replace the level-2 fission reactors I've been using with either level-3 fissions reactors, or even more powerful still fusion reactors (their reactor fuel doesn't last nearly as long though- and can't be produced locally on Duna, unlike fission reactor fuels). Either one of those should enable my spaceplanes to reach a high enough cruising altitude on Kerbin to make orbit with their ascent packages (which are pretty heavy- and reduce the craft's altitude ceiling by a great deal- further raising their required weight. It's a curve I can't get far enough ahead of with a reasonable part-count without better TWR thermal turbojets- which I will have with better tech nodes.) I *DID* look at using a standard, oxygen-breathing turbojet to reach a sufficiently high cruising altitude on Kerbin to allow the ascent packages to bring it into orbit. The problem with that idea though, is that it requires a lot of complexity in the craft- three separate propulsion systems in fact. One for flying on Duna, based on thermal turbojets; one for reaching high cruising altitude on Kerbin, based on oxygen-breathing jets (which are more powerful); and a third, rocket-powered ascent package to finally push the craft into orbit, and allow it to navigate to Duna without a separate transfer stage. I designed a vessel that could do all of this (I called her the 'DART'- Duna Advanced Recon Turbojet), and still carry 12 passengers, but her part count was in something like the low-90's; and with 10 of those parts being engines and 8 of them being intakes, my computer was completely lagging out trying to fly it. That design also had huge stability problems, due to all the weight at the tail-end (my Blackhawk designs did too- but I was able to somewhat manage that by creating a second deck of wings that extended over the engines and moved back the center of lift, in my later variants...) Speaking of which- here's the latest in my Blackhawk line of planes, for all those who missed it on the Flying Duna thread. I call her the 'Blackhawk-Mk3", or Blackhawk-3 for short. The Mk2 actually had a really high part-count and some serious stability issues, so that was a failed design in the end- making this my second FUNCTIONAL design, since the Mk1: I also developed an offshoot-variant of the Blackhawks I called the 'Bluejay', earlier, from my Mk1 airframe. Unlike the Blackhawk designs though, which were built to be spaceplanes- and have heavy integrated ascent packages and LFO loads that greatly reduce their altitude ceiling- this was a design meant to be carried to Duna by-rocket. It's also probably at about the absolute maximum size for what I could conceivably send to Duna that way- anything larger would crash my computer from the part-counts of having 2 of them loaded (as is, I would probably attach two in 2x symmetry, but then detach one copy from the rocket after reaching orbit to decrease lag and increase the Delta-V budget of the transfer stage, like I did with the damaged copy of the paired Eagle Mk'2 before...) The Bluejay has a maximum cruising altitude of about 29,000 meters on Kerbin. She features crew capacity for 12, and can cruise at about 964 m/s on Kerbin. Due to the decreased gravity and planetary radius of Duna, I estimate she could reach velocities capable of ejecting her from the atmosphere in high-altitude flight: much like I expect of the Eagle Mk2 when it makes Duna... This isn't due to high-thrust (the thrust levels are in fact very low) but low drag due to high altitude ceiling... I also learned recently that at a later tech node I will unlock at upgrade to the standard thermal turbojets I've been using (KSP Interstellar automatically replaces the basic version with the upgrades in the VAB/SPH editor once I unlock the node). The better version is called 'Hybrid Turbojets', and allows me to pass fuel through it much like a thermal rocket nozzle in addition to their normal atmosphere-breathing mode- which will greatly improve the ease with which I build Duna-capable spaceplanes. I think they also get a little better thrust or ISP than standard thermal tubojets- though don't quote me on that... Combined with more advanced reactor types that will increase the tubojet thrust, I can expect I will be able to simply retrofit my existing Duna plane models with the Hybrid Turbojets and better reactors, and instantly convert some of them into Single Stage to Duna and Back to Kerbin capable spaceplanes...

It's for that reason that I wouldn't consider your plane designs to be very useful at all on Duna. While they may earn lots of Challenge points, they won't serve a colony there too well... My designs, on the on the other hand, have been built to be as utilitarian as possible- hence why some of them have had significant cargo capacity even if that won't earn as many Challenge points as crew capacity- and all of them have had very low wingload (which makes landing MUCH safer and easier). In fact, I'm surprised your Last Dancer survived landing (or re-entry for that matter, given how not-solid it looks) at all... I guess, in summary- flying on Duna isn't really that hard at all, provided you have a good enough propulsion system. The biggest challenge is that stock really offers nothing that works well and lasts a long time (rockets run out of fuel too quickly, ion engines are usually too weak- though Sirine managed to make an ion flyer somehow...) Electric Propellers do work, but, uhh, well, only sort of... They require too much weight in solar panels to fly very high; like all propellers their thrust is already very low at the relevant air pressures, and falls off exponentially with further decreases based on altitude; and individually they're VERY weak at those air pressures- which means you have to use a lot of CPU power simulating five or six or seven of them just to keep a low altitude with any sort of decent-sized craft. Thermal Turbojets are a much better option. Their TWR is actually a bit lower at the lower altitudes on Duna when only using Mk-2 fission reactors and basic turbojets like I did, but their engine profile means they maintain their thrust into much higher altitudes- as it follows that of a standard turbojet a lot more closely than that of a standard propeller. They pack more thrust into a lower part-count (just three parts yield between 19 and 38 kN with the tech level I used- vs. about 2-5 kN each for electric propellers at even the lower altitudes on Duna). And, perhaps most importantly for your Last Dancer craft, their performance improves greatly with each tech level advance- eventually greatly exceeding even standard fuel-powered turbojets (when powered with Antimatter Reactors). TBH, my greatest advantage so far, and the reason all my designs have looked ready to greatly outperform all the competitors up until yours (if I can just get them to Duna- I've mostly been focusing my efforts on trying to develop a Spaceplane version for that reason- because I can't strap anything bigger than one of my smallest designs to a rocket...) is that I had the insight and mod to use Thermal Turbojets instead of propellers. That being said, I will be designing even better, specialized cargo-hauler models for my own personal use on Duna once I have a colony set up there- only I will need to construct them *ON* Duna (using RocketParts hauled from Kerbin, or mined and refined locally- vessels you build off-planet aren't free...) as they will be too large to transport there, and too complex as spaceplane variants- so they won't be able to use them for this challenge... Some of the largest and last-built ones would even be designed to operate between constructed runways at permanent bases once I have those set up- so their landing wheels would be smaller, and they wouldn't be nearly as useful for the kind of on-a-dime landings in the rough terrain needed for this challenge.

Oh God- *FUSION* reactors, and HOW MANY engines??!! My computer has huge lag issues with just under 70 parts and only two thermal turbojets in my latest design. You used- SIX?! (my computer would EXPLODE) I don't think I'm EVER going to be able to outdo your score, given how much more powerful your computer is... As for the FUSION reactors (from the performance, they look to be the upgraded versions)- I understand they're awesome- but how did you get them? If you play Sandbox mode, you're supposed to have to wait a LONNNG time for a Science Lab to turn out enough Science to upgrade reactors (normally, Sandbox doesn't use Science, but KSP Interstellar kind of forces it down your throat). And on Career Mode, it takes 2000 Science Points just for the basic version, and some ungodly number for the upgraded fusion reactors- so it's not something you can afford right after installing the mod on a fresh Career save. Since KSP Interstellar uses a different tech tree than normal, you also can't just add it onto an existing Career Mode game and be able to immediately buy the node that way... Finally, I'd like to see the part files for those welded crew cabins. I'd like to check that the parameters have been adjusted correctly, and see how you made them (I've been having a lot of trouble welding parts myself). If you used Ubo's Welding Utility, you can count on them being pretty much disqualified though- it doesn't adjust the parameters correctly, and you can end up with things like insanely low (or high) drag coefficients and masses on non-stock parts. If you did balanced them correctly, though, I'd like to use the part in my own designs. I've been limited by my technology (level 2/3 fission reactors). It looks like you played the tech trump card on me- level 2 fusion reactors (may I repeat, *FUSION* reactors- seriously? that is *NOT* a level playing-field...) can MASSIVELY outperform level 2 fissions. And antimatter reactors- are just scary powerful. As for my part frugalness and low wingloads- that's because of my weak computer. It can handle more wing parts than engines, which tend to generate a LOT more lag per-part. Plus, it's *MUCH* safer to land a low-wingload plane on Duna- and much easier to take off. None of my plane designs should have to do a cliff jump like you did, for instance... Here's my latest design- the 'Blackhawk Mk3'. It STILL can't reach LKO though (it has enough Delta-V to get from LKO to Duna on its own, with a refueling stop at the Mun, though.) I'm starting to think it's impossible to accomplish an SSTDABK with the designed crew capacity (12 passengers + 1 pilot) without a crazy-high part count (especially, more than two engines) *OR* better reactors- at least level 3 fissions, or level 1 fusions... Still, here she is. She'd make a nice Kerbin airliner, though, if that Challenge allowed KSP Interstellar, and its host was still maintaining it... (I also used NovaPunch2 struts- but those could easily be replaced with stock ones) Her Maximum Cruising Altitude is only about 17,550 meters. Her max landspeed is 216 m/s. She suffers form a really low TWR- but with Mk-3 fission reactors, or fusion reactors (they unlock at the same tech node), she could easily be an SSTDABK- as she packs enough Delta-V (almost exactly 2000 m/s in vacuum) to reach orbit from a higher altitude (which would require more thrust to achieve). I *MIGHT* post a Mk-4 version that can actually work as a SSTDABK soon- if I'm willing to push the part-count and lag a little higher for an extra engine... (the Mk3 already dips into the yellow now and then on mid-level graphics settings) I guess I'm just going to have to be happy to send all my spaceplanes up on a rocket... Show me that three-part crew cabin though- I need it to bring my part-count further down...

OK, So, in super-short, I've been back to working on Duna planes again- mainly to try and design a winner for the "Flying Duna" challenge while I pass a bit of the game-time until my Duna Flotilla arrives at its destination; but also mainly to develop my skills in designing planes that will work on the little red planet. My eventual goal is to design and build some sort of strategic heavy-lifter plane that can fly on Duna purely on thermal turbojets or electric propellers... Here's my latest attempt at a SSTDABK spaceplane I'd been working on as part of that, by the way. I call her, the 'Blackhawk Mk2' At this point I've designed an entire fleet of Duna-capable planes. It took a lot of work, and it'd be a shame to lose them all if my computer crashed or something: so I'm going to post a craft file thread with my entire fleet for anyone who wants the files soon... Remind me to post a link to that here if I forget to... Regards, Northstar

*Darth Vader Voice* Come over to the mod side Sirine. It is unavoidable. It is your destiny... Seriously though, there are a lot of great mods out there, and they have a lot of cool features. Used properly, many of them add realism to the game, and expand its scope. You should really give some of the mods a try... As for my planes- please remind me to post a craft files thread and a link to them soon. I've designed a whole fleet of Duna-capable planes (though some models perform better than others) and it would really be a shame to lose all of them to a computer-crash or something... This is my latest model- the 'Blackhawk Mk2'. It's another attempt at a SSTDABK spaceplane, and I have high hopes for this one. The only problem is, its thrust and lift are so powerful relative to its mass, it has the tendency to tear itself apart in Kerbin's dense lower-atmosphere if I try and throttle it up too high in the initial climb (which I basically always do- I haven't had the patience to play it safe...) If it makes it to Kerbin orbit, I'll park it there, and resume the flight later (probably in a week or two) when I get the chance to play this game again until the next Duna transfer window... Regards, Northstar

OI! It looks like I was being a bit too hard on my plane design. Far too hard, in fact. I was expecting my new airframe to lift crew capacity for 12 Kerbals AND SSTABK-capable ascent system to the same height as I could previously only achieve with a plane with crew capacity for just 4 Kerbals and no ascent system... Much improved as my new airframe design might have been, it just wasn't up to the task- at least not with only a level-2 fission reactor and level-1 thermal turbojet (both parts have an additional upgrade at Fusion Power- which also unlocks the much more powerful, but fuel-hungry, fusion reactors). However it WAS up to the task of competing with the Eagle Mk2's performance, with crew capacity for 12 Kerbals instead of 4 (Kerbals are weightless when inside crew compartments- unlike while in Command Chairs- so there is no need for me to hire 20 additional Kerbals just for a test-flight- or to make claim to the crew capacity points for the Challenge for that matter...) Here, I present the 'Bluejay'- a version of the Blackhawk without the heavy rocketry for attempted SSTDABK. I guess this means I'll probably be sending a copy of the 'Bluejay' (or maybe a further-improved version) to Duna if the Eagle Mk2 doesn't outperform the current Leaderboard... Regards, Northstar

EEK! Turns out the TWR calculator included in MechJeb was a little over-optimistic to say the least: the Blackhawk's TWR with the rocket engines engaged is only a little over 1... Also, the ISP nerfs on the 1.25 meter level-2 fission reactors were worse than I thought- the plane is already losing thrust due to low IntakeAtm levels at 16,000 meters- with a 2.5 meter intake and two 1.25 meter intakes! Turns out I was wrong to predict it would have a similar cruising altitude to the Eagle, due to its performance at lower altitudes (the wealth of experience I've built up with these thermal turbojet designs says it would have the same 30,000 meter cruising altitude based on how it was doing- but that was when the ISP was 33% higher than it is now...) I might have to upgrade the design with an additional pair of thermal turbojets, some extra intakes, and some parachutes (to ensure safe landing on Duna) if this version doesn't make it... This also worries me about the Eagle Mk2's performance - since while previously it could cruise at 31,250 meters with just its one 2.5 meter intake, now it might have trouble flying at high-altitude on Duna at all due to the intake nerfs... I'll see what happens with this attempt with the Blackhawk, and report... Regards, Northstar EDIT: Umm, nope. The nerfed ISP values, and altered thrust curves with climbing altitudes are really messing with my designs... The Blackhawk can only maintain a *measly* 16,000 meter cruising altitude- whereas the Eagle Mk2 was able to maintain 30,000 meters with similar TWR, similar lift, and similar mass before the KSP Interstellar update... Darn, I may need the upgraded fission reactors (at the very least) or fusion reactors to make the design work... For that matter, to counteract the nerfs to the thermal tubojets, I'll probably also have to take to using the new Thorium reactor fuel (which is more powerful, but high-maintenance) if I continue using fission reactors (fusion reactors require an extensive infrastructure of deuterium centrifuges- which require oceans to work- and tritium breeder reactors to be sustainable in-situ. If I use fusions, I'll probably be hauling regular shipments of deuterium and tritium out to Duna from Kerbin to keep my Duna planes in the air... At least it's an extremely lightweight reactor fuel- being nothing more than rare/unstable hydrogen isotopes...) EDIT #2: I call 16,000 meters measly- but that's still better than the Hummingbird, while carrying a cargo of 12 Kerbals, and over 5.4 tons of LFO mix- enough to make orbit if I could get up high enough... I'll definitely consider using a stripped-down version of the Blackhawk (I think I'll call it the 'Bluejay') to take the #1 slot on the Scoreboard if nothing else (if Steven doesn't come up with an even better design before then), since without all the LFO, if it rode there on a rocket, it could definitely perform quite well on Duna (probably better point-wise than as a SSTDABK, in fact)