MagiMaster

For anyone else having this problem, it seems to be caused by either Procedural Parts or RealFuels, or some interaction between them.

Does anyone have any suggestions on what might be causing this or how to fix it?

I installed Realism Overhaul from CKAN and when I tried to launch a ship, this happened (skip to 0:47 for the main bug): This is from RO with all suggested and recommended mods. I'm pretty sure the only thing I changed afterwards was to run DDS4KSP. I haven't been able to narrow it down to one specific mod, nor have I been able to find anyone else reporting this problem (though that's probably because I don't know what to search for). The same thing happens after removing several mods and/or parts, but doesn't seem to happen in an unmodded game. The video also shows two other minor problems. In the first part, I was right clicking on parts in the VAB when it suddenly stopped popping up the tweakables menu. I have narrowed this down to TweakScale. Finally, I'm reasonably sure the VASIMR engines aren't supposed to stay on like that before they're activated, but it seems to be purely cosmetic.

Post moved.

Try landing on the Mun without touching the QWEASD keys. Walking through it in my head, it might just be doable, but I'm not sure whether it'd be doable in an hour or not.

The mission is to get Jeb to Moho and Eeloo before returning to Kerbin. Pony express style is a valid way to do that (though you'd have to give up a few achievements in the process). Even using the same lander isn't required by the basic mission. Alchemist, the only point of confusion I had with you video was where you cut out the fuel transfer. Since the two craft are otherwise identical, it's a little confusing as to which you ended up taking to Moho. It looks to me like you did take the original ship though. (The only difference it'd make would be whether or not you got the reused lander achievement.) So it looks like you got 1580 tons launched (although a shot of the mass of the ship on the launch pad would be good) and got the reused lander, the crew transfer, the two flybys and the no orbital construction achievements. Plus I think I'll add one for landing on a third planet because that's pretty impressive to me. I wish I hadn't forced myself to avoid mutually exclusive achievements, but it's too late to make that drastic of a change now. (Something to remember for next time though.)

Looking forward to it. I just finished assembling my craft (abandoning the no orbital construction achievement) but it still looks like it won't have enough fuel for the whole trip. (I pretested my lander this time at least.)

Hiding behind a moon is legitimate, but even liquid hydrogen is hot compared to the CMB. And then you have to consider that you're dumping rocket fuel all over your hull and you will have to keep doing so for as long as you want to maintain that temperature. Anyway, rather than rehashing all this, that page I linked goes over every stealth idea in sci-fi in pretty good detail (including decoys, which don't work out either). I'm not saying you can't have stealth at all, but, well, you can't if you want to be realistic.

By the way, there's no stealth in space.

I definitely like the Near Future Pack and I think it is fairly well balanced for general use, but for this mission in particular the really high Isp engines are just too big of an advantage. Scoring wise, it looks like you got everything you say you did.

Man, how are yall getting so much dV with so many engines? I can't seem to get my designs to work out so well. Scoring wise, I may have to retweak the rules a bit since I'm pretty sure you started on this before I made the last few changes. But let's see, you reused the same lander, flew by Even and Jool, and did the mission without orbital construction. I need your total launch mass to put you on the scoreboard though.

Good luck with the rest of the trip. I'm still stuck in the VAB redesigning my craft.

Thanks. I'll update the leaderboard. Does that include a craft to return the swapped crew members around Eeloo? I've been playing around with the Near Future Pack a bit and while it's not easy to, it does look like you can build significantly higher dV craft with it.

@Hakari, Ok. Thanks. The mass would be the total mass launched for the entire mission, including any refueling or crew transfers. @Jasonden, Nice. With two orange tanks on just one nuclear engine some of those burns must have taken a ridiculously long time. It looks like you got the reused lander, the two flybys and the no orbital construction achievements.

I'll go ahead and add you to the leaderboard, but what all mods are you using? I can't tell if some of those are new parts or just new textures. Do you happen to have a picture of the two transferred crew returning?

@Epthelyn, Is the Near Future VASIMR roughly similar in weight and Isp (at that thrust) to 120 ion thrusters? I haven't had a chance to look into it yet. @Hakari, Do you have more pictures? I can't really tell what all's going on from just those three. Is this also using the Near Future Pack? And I don't really know what you mean about the crew transfer. On a somewhat unrelated note, it looks like I'm going to have to start my attempt over. My lander is on Moho, but it doesn't have enough fuel to get off. I had more than twice the dV listed in the various dV maps, but even with mechanical assistance, it took too much to land. I might could have tried again, but I quicksaved just before take off.

If it's basically the same (results-wise) as welded stacks of xenon tanks and banks of ion thrusters, then it'd be fine. I suppose I'll have to look in to it a bit.

Hmm... I suppose so. You could still send the extra fuel to Eve or Duna instead, but I think "refuel at Eve with no orbital construction" might be easier than "no refueling with orbital construction." I suppose I'll have to rework that achievement. I can't just say do everything in one launch though unless I completely replace the rendezvous achievement. I'm not quite sure how to resolve that... Edit: Would it work if I said do the mission without docking? You can still rendezvous and transfer crew without docking. (Well, no docking besides the landers. So maybe no docking besides what was pre-docked during the initial launch.)

Would an ion ship still weight about the same if you built it to the same thrust and dV? I went ahead and made a separate leaderboard either way, but we can work out which category the Near Future Pack should fall under. I also made another pass over the achievements. I added one for "complete the mission" which yall both already got, I specified that you can't return Jeb to the Kerbin SoI (not just the surface) and I changed to rendezvous to a crew swap. It'll be an actual achievement to pull that off, I think. But I still need to work out what to do about the orbital construction achievement. If I could be sure that it was possible to get all the achievements in a stock run, I'd change it to a no docking rule (as you can do a crew change without docking), but that's a whole lot of dV for one ship and I don't want to force everyone to use ion engines. My ship already needs an hour burn here and there on two nuclear engines.

It's quite a bit of effort to send a full fuel tank to either Eeloo or Moho especially if you can't construct the refueler in orbit either. And orbital construction makes things much easier because of the initial 4.5-5 km/s needed to get it all off Kerbin. My design needs about 3 orange tanks to make half the trip, stopping at Eve to refuel, which means the refueling ship needs 4 orange tanks. If I could launch those in pairs, I could probably raise than number and not have to deal with having such low thrust. But I'm willing to be convinced otherwise. I didn't want to make "all in one launch" an achievement because I wasn't sure it'd be possible without mods. (I guess you've proven it is though.) I'll have to think about it a bit. BTW, anyone else have any thoughts on the Near Future Pack? 30 km/s on a 200 ton launch does seem pretty superior to stock. I'll go ahead and add a "mission complete" achievement either way.

Mobjack, I just realized that while docking at a space station is fine, I should add the weight of a crew return vehicle to your score. For your 1 kerbal, that shouldn't be too much, but do you have any such craft already built you could weight?

So you got the 5 kerbals, reused lander, flyby 2 extra planets and no orbital construction achievements, right? I suppose I'll let the use of HyperEdit slide if all you did was put back the missing fuel lines. No pictures, but I trust everyone made it back to the ground safely. BTW, the rendezvous gives you a chance to refuel, but to get that achievement, you can't just fly to Moho, come back to Kerbin and refuel and then fly to Eeloo as two practically separate missions. But I didn't specify that you have to refuel during the rendezvous to keep things open. I was considering adding another for swapping crew out mid-mission, but I'm not entirely certain it'd be possible to do all six at once. I'm debating whether I should say "don't return to Kerbin SoI mid-flight" or making that a bonus... I feel like I should do one of the two because the existing rules don't really prevent getting all 5 achievements while basically flying the whole thing as two separate missions...

@Mobjack, Very nice. I've only just managed to get everything into orbit (and not without some mechanical assistance), although you reminded me that I forgot a return system too. I'll count docking at a space station as that is very similar to several other definitely valid ways of returning your kerbals (such as sending up a crew shuttle). Let's see. It looks like you got the reuse the same lander and the no orbital construction achievements. Two Eve flybys doesn't quite get the flyby two planets achievement though. (I should make that a little clearer in the rules.) @chlue, I'll have to think about that. It's a neat idea, but I might have to say no, at least not on the main leaderboard. It seems like it'd be too big of an advantage, but you might could convince me otherwise. (Anyone that finishes the mission at all will at least get an honorable mention though, and if there's enough interest, I can make a separate leaderboard.) On the other hand, docking at a Kethane factory wouldn't be hugely different than docking at any other refueling station. Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

I am currently attempting it. I have a vessel that can do everything required, but while I can get it into orbit, I still need to get a slightly heavier second ship into orbit too. (If I abandoned the no orbital construction sub-mission...) Actually flying the mission will take a little while, but hopefully shouldn't present any huge, unforeseen difficulties (fingers crossed).

High Command needs to get Jeb out of the office for a good long while and they might as well get some Science! done in the process so they've decided to send him to both Moho and Eeloo in one mission. However, they'll be in serious trouble if he doesn't return eventually. This is more of a did-it-or-not kind of challenge, but in the spirit of competition here are some sub-missions each worth one . Ties will be broken by total mass launched (lower is better) since High Command doesn't want to waste more money that necessary on this, so make sure to get screenshots of your launch mass, along with enough shots to demonstrate your accomplishments. - Complete the mission. That is, land one kerbal (Jeb would be appropriate) on both Eeloo and Moho. Then return all kerbals launched, including kerbals launched for sub-missions, safely to Kerbin's surface. Anything else goes unless you're going for some of the other achievements. (All valid entries must complete this achievement.) - Make all landings with the same lander. This means the lander cannot be staged until after the last landing. - During the mission, fly by at least two different planets (other than Kerbin, Moho and Eeloo). No need to do more than enter their SoI. - Rendezvous with another ship somewhere outside of Kerbin's SoI to change out at least two crew members. At least one of the original kerbals must remain with the original ship. All kerbals must eventually be returned safely to Kerbin's surface. (This does mean your ship must carry at least 3 kerbals.) - Do the entire mission with no orbital construction. You can dock for refueling or crew transfer if you separate before making significant maneuvers. Parts already docked to the ship during the initial launch don't count, so you can dock and undock your lander freely. - Land at least 5 kerbals on each landing. Strictly speaking, these don't have to be the same 5 kerbals. All kerbals launched must be returned alive to the surface of Kerbin for it to be a valid entry. - Land on a third body outside of the Kerbin SoI. That is, land somewhere besides Moho, Eeloo, Kerbin, Mun or Minmus. To get this and the lander reuse achievement, you must use the same lander for all three landings. To get this and the 5 kerbals achievement, you must land 5 kerbals in all three landings. Some seeming necessary legalese: - No cheating. No debug menu. No magic parts. No HyperEdit. - Mods are fine as long as they don't provide parts that are strictly superior to stock parts. That is, if you could replace X stock parts with Y mod parts and gain something with no significant trade offs, those mod parts cannot be used. Information only mods are fine. Autopilot mods are fine (though kudos if your ships could be flown without them). In any case, please mention what mods you used. - I reserve the right to amend these rules if I've overlooked any loopholes that make the challenge significantly easier than intended. The amended rules may reduce or invalidate the entry that prompted the amendment, but I will try not to reduce or invalidate any preexisting entries in the process. Also, I don't want to have to define things like "lander" but I will if it becomes an issue. - I reserve the right to add more if someone does something significantly awesome and I can generalize that to fit with the rest of the . New will be awarded retroactively if there's enough evidence to do so. - I reserve the right to interpret "significant" and "significantly". I have checked that this is at least theoretically possible. A straight flight from Kerbin to Eeloo to Moho to Kerbin would take about 17-22 km/s dV, plus about 5 km/s for launch and less than another 4 km/s for the lander. This falls below the record for the Delta-V Maximization Challenge. Besides that, in-flight refueling and gravity assists can reduce the dV required to doable levels. I have a flight plan and some ships mostly built that can make the trip and should get all the if I can keep them intact during launch. It might still be a while before I manage to submit my own entry (which is surely not optimal at roughly 4 kilotons to be launched), but I wanted to go ahead and post the challenge itself. Near Stock Leaderboard (info, autopilot and difficulty-increasing mods and parts with stock-level performance) - :cool: :cool: :cool: Hakari - 1040 tons - :cool: :cool: :cool: Alchemist - 1580 tons - :cool: :cool: Jasonden - 684 tons - :cool: :cool: Kasuha - 1653 tons - :cool: Mobjack - 487 tons - - - Major Mods Leaderboard (all other non-magic parts and mods) - :cool: :cool: Hakari - 220 tons (Near Future Pack) - :cool: :cool: chlue - 496 tons (Near Future Pack) - - Entries using these mods go on the modded leaderboard. This is not a comprehensive list and will be updated as issues arise. Near Future Propulsion Pack