Kerbin Geographic And Science Society

[togfox]

***** this thread is no longer maintained *****

Kerbin Geographic and Science Society

Welcome to the KGSS!!

The KGSS is a casual and open society of volunteers that like to inject a little bit of real life science into their Kerbal Space

Program. Exploding rockets and designing bizarre planes is fun but once you learn basic rocket design and orbital mechanics you

may feel the urge to do something more purposeful. The KGSS tries to inject real (or hypothetical) science into your space

missions. You can fly around the Mun just because it\'s there (which is fun!) or you can fly around the Mun on a hypothetical

KGSS sponsored surface mapping mission. The KGSS encourages imagination, the application of real world science and the

continual push for discovery to help you expand your enjoyment of KSP.

Anyone can participate in the fun the KGSS offers. The goals of the KGSS are:

- to promote learning in game and in real life;

- to encourage exploration and discovery;

- to enrich KSP gaming by highlighting diverse mission objectives;

- to engage the community for a richer experience for members and the KGSS;

- to foster all the science disciplines without prejudice;

- to challenge members to expand their mission repertoire.

The KGSS has already embarked on real science missions. Through the use of community designed mods, the KGSS has mapped the surface of Kerbin, the Mun and Minmus. The KGSS, through the efforts of volunteers, can now offer 2d and 3d contoured topographic maps of KSP celestial bodies. Who would have thought! The KGSS also provides a \'name this feature\' register for those that wish to name prominent landmarks (rules apply). We\'ll also offer hypothetical scientific missions for you to try something you probably would not even consider doing normally. For those that are interested, the KGSS will offer articles on real Kerbal science like topographic maps, Kerbin air density, exploration, flight dynamics and more. If it\'s scientific in nature, the KGSS has an interest!

If you have skills or tools to offer then let someone know - this is your society, feel free to participate. If you wish to be a silent member then enjoy the posts, the challenges and the quest for scientific knowledge. Welcome to the KGSS!!

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KGSS recognised maps

These maps are in csv format (comma delimited text files) and are the end result of many contributors. The crxTelemetry and isa_ram_mapper were used to collect this information. Feel free to use these mods to make your own local maps of your favourite locations. Warning - large file sizes inside!

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/80858415/Kerbin.zip

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/80858415/Mun.zip

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/80858415/Minmus.zip

You can use a free program called QUIKGRID to display the above csv files as a contour map. It takes a little bit of practice but the user manual is quite sufficient.

Quikgrid: http://www.galiander.ca/quikgrid/

Manual: http://www.galiander.ca/quikgrid/quikgrid_doc.html

Credits for mods and map data go to: Corax, Innsewerants, toastar, dvc, bambam, PakledHostage, U.E.F., SasquatchM, AtomicRocketBooster, SmiteZero, Gefrierbrand, TOAST, maltesh, Evolution, Kreuzung, mossman, bobnine and anyone else who has posted in this thread http://184.154.141.114/~kerbalsp/forum/index.php?topic=10324.255

Chief KGSS volunteers: rich, Zephram Kerman

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Name a geographic feature

If you\'d like to name-a-feature you\'ve been to then you can register your name in this thread. You can name a region (an island) or a single feature (mountain peak) and if you\'re the first to do so then it will be recognised by the KGSS. Here are the rules:

- A daytime screenshot has to show a capsule on or near the feature (to prove you\'ve been there);

- The latitude/longitude of the feature displayed in the map view (hover your mouse over the capsule).

- the name of your region/feature.

If you don't know how to do the above then the KGSS experts can help you work this out. If your feature is recognised by KGSS then your feature will be registered in this thread as a permanent record.

See here for some features already named.

Note: names are not canon and won't be recognised by Squad.

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Map images

Kerbin

http://www.majhost.com/gallery/borna123456/GTPlanet/0vxgre.png

Thanks by Koschei

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KGSS Journals - injecting real life science into your KSP experience!

Edition 1

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/12752-Writing-KGSS-Journal-Volume-I-Edition-1

Edition 2

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/13950-Writing-KGSS-Journal-Volume-I-Edition-2

Edition 3

http://kerbalspaceprogram.com/forum/showthread.php/18463-Writing-KGSS-Journal-Volume-I-Edition-3

Writers, researchers and artists needed.

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Note: As this OP has changed, the following posts may appear strange or out of context. That is through no fault of the poster as the purpose of this thread has changed over time. My apologies go to those posters below.

***** this thread is no longer maintained *****

Edited June 27, 2013 by togfox

[PakledHostage]

6) This society shall never have a rule numbered \'4\'.

Since (I\'m paraphrasing here) '4 shalt thou not count', should we also not have a rule five? After all, 'Five is right out'.

In all seriousness though, if we\'re going to do this and make it 'official', then I think that the major features on the Mun and Kerbin should be named by some sort of poll. Names should also be tasteful. Naming rights to small features like mountains, depressions and small craters could be claimed by landing there but battles will inevitably occur if someone jumps in and claims naming rights to one of the major features. Should we define 'major feature' as any feature that is visible from a given orbital altitude?

And while I\'m posting, I\'ll include links to my draft Munar topographical maps. I understand that another series of maps was created by a group of collaborators using the ISA RAM Satellite mapping module, but I haven\'t seen the results. I don\'t know what projections or resolutions they used in making their maps, but I could write an application to fuse the data from my radar mapping sensor with that of the ISA RAM mapping module (my data is binary, I believe theirs is ASCII text). For what it is worth, I used Polar Stereographic projection for the polar regions (50°N-90°N and 50°S-90°S) and Mercator projection for the mid-latitudes (75°S - 75°N).

Also, for what it is worth, my Mercator I and Mercator II mapping Munar mapping missions found a maximum terrain elevation of 3315 m located near 70°06\'N, 52°18\'E in a region of mountains that I would like to call the 'Mercator Highlands'. The Mercator II probe found a minimum terrain elevation of 34 m in a prominent crater located near 8°12\'N, 35°42\'E.

[Zephram Kerman]

Since (I\'m paraphrasing here) '4 shalt thou not count', should we also not have a rule five? After all, 'Five is right out'.

10) See rules 4 and 6.

In all seriousness though, if we\'re going to do this and make it 'official', then I think that the major features on the Mun and Kerbin should be named by some sort of poll. Names should also be tasteful. Naming rights to small features like mountains, depressions and small craters could be claimed by landing there but battles will inevitably occur if someone jumps in and claims naming rights to one of the major features. Should we define 'major feature' as any feature that is visible from a given orbital altitude?

+1, seconded, etc.

In fact, the naming of features is important and complex enough to justify its own sub-forum. That would be a nice, tidy way to discuss and vote on the name of each feature. The polls should be changeable, to allow for consensus to shift to better ideas, until each thread is locked.

Also, I think regions, continents, and constellations should be named as well. Hopefully someone can come up with a third map of the entire sky.

Very nice job on the topo maps!

[Ascensiam]

the RP forum has already generated names in the dozens, such as Tau Peninsula, Jhazi Strait, and Vaturian Highlands.

[RedDwarfIV]

The mountain chain in Safira is known as \'the Vehaz\'.

[Capt'n Skunky]

To be fair Acensiam, those names were basically claimed on a first named basis without any community input. That may be fine for your RP needs, but it really left out the rest of the community that may have an interest in them.

I\'d prefer some form of naming committee like how names for real world things are done. Obviously, there will be names given by locals, but for something that might go on an official map, it would be nice to have full community input.

I\'m not going to make any demand or rules here, just pointing out some details. I\'d like to see a nice map with good names that the community as a whole had a part in naming.

Cheers!

Capt\'n Skunky

KSP Community Manager

[Ascensiam]

I don\'t disagree Skunky, in the end any solution that involves a broader spectrum is fine by me.

And of course if Harv names it himself, i bow to those names regardless.

[RedDwarfIV]

I don\'t disagree Skunky, in the end any solution that involves a broader spectrum is fine by me.

And of course if Harv names it himself, i bow to those names regardless.

Hail probe, as thou hast named mine region \'Safira\'.

[Zephram Kerman]

It sounds to me like we\'re on the right track. The names Ascensiam mentioned sound great to me. I expect if we were to move the issue into the general forum area in the way Togfox has proposed, these names would be vested by the entire community and would likely be popular. So it\'s a win / win for everyone.

[maltesh]

I suspect that this is the highest mountain on Kerbin, but can\'t say for certain. At 3752m, It\'s definitely the highest point I\'ve sent anything to, and it\'s higher than any point currently in my Kerbin Mapping Datafile.

This is the mountain.

And this is the range.

As I recall, it\'s fairly easily scalable by Cart from the north east, with an almost planar side. I\'ve referred to it as the Jebberhorn before, but I\'d prefer to name it 'Mount Vildan.'

[khyron42]

This sounds promising, so long as it isn\'t overwhelmed by RP\'ers pushing the names they\'ve already come up with and still feeling like they 'own' that name/area of the map.

This could easily populate a whole 'place name suggestions' subforum, with polls for the name of each continent/subcontinent and areas within them.

[ping111]

Umm, I have a name, except it is from RP. However, it is very general.

The location is attached.

The name is Lac-en-Vert, or Lake in Green (Preferably Greenlake).

EDIT: Oh derp, I don\'t have a screeny of a pod there handy. Is it okay if I claim I\'ve been there?

[togfox]

Some great discussion already - good to see!

@PakledHostage: With respect to maps I think it should be a) verifiable (ie peer reviewed) and open source (ie a csv file) so if you\'re happy to provide your data in that format then I think that will be part of the core set of long/lat/alt datapoints. I think the Society needs to sift through all the provided data and decide if it should be included or excluded in the official maps. This sounds very official but its really a matter of someone opening up the data in map mode and doing a sanity check. Datapoints that are outside the -180/180 or -90/90 range (for the Mun) is instantly suspect and this dataset should be rejected. It should be open source because in this KSP community no one really has a monopoly on much. If Modders can provide source code for free then so should the Kerbin Geographic Society.

I think we should have a poll for regions (whatever that means) but not for individual features. A hill, mountain or bump in the ground probably won\'t get much attention except from the person that claims it so I think a poll on features is overkill and will have in many cases just one name and only one vote. People are more interested in larger regions so this should go to a vote. Votes should be held only when there are enough competting names for a meaningful poll.

RP names can be submitted but they need to go through the same process - that is voted upon where a vote is necessary.

I\'ll ask a Mod to create a subforum if this process is accepted and is popular. I\'ll have a locked and sticky thread with the official map with posts under that recognising official regions and features.

This thread is not intended to be used to claim features right now. The KGS is not yet recognising any feature or region - however - in the absence of any other means, feel free to \'queue\' your claim and it will be processed in due course.

Anyone else wish to comment on the proposed process? I\'m not sure what defines a \'region\'. I guess it is a boundary that is spelled out by whomever makes the first claim to naming it. Once the boundary is agreed to, I guess a poll can be constructed at that point.

Thoughts?

[PakledHostage]

@PakledHostage: With respect to maps I think it should be a) verifiable (ie peer reviewed) and open source (ie a csv file) so if you\'re happy to provide your data in that format then I think that will be part of the core set of long/lat/alt datapoints. I think the Society needs to sift through all the provided data and decide if it should be included or excluded in the official maps.

I don\'t have a problem with that. In fact, you\'ve already got my source code for my radar altimetry module. I\'m also happy to make my data set available. The only issue is that it is quite large (upwards of 48 Mb) even in its binary format, so I hate to think how big it would be in .CSV format. I have over 2 million data points, but I can write a little application to convert that data into CSV format. I would just need to find a website where I could upload the converted file.

PH.

[togfox]

Images like this simply blow my mind.

This data is not my own - it is a combined effort of many different files totaling 20 megabytes and 500,000 data points.

If you look closely you can see the gash in the ground on the far left. The big \'eye\' top centre. The \'tear drop\' right of centre near the equator. I suggest you have this map open or even print it out next time you orbit the Mun. You\'ll be able to spot the landmarks quickly. You guys rock (get it - rock - Mun - * groan*)!

[khyron42]

Togfox, yours is already in CSV, correct? I\'m wondering if your two data formats are merge-able.

In any case - Mods or Devs, do you have any objection to what\'s being proposed here? Think it\'s irrelevant? Welcome it eagerly?

[togfox]

Mines in CSV generated from crxTelemetry, ISA mapper and other ISA mappers already provided. There are some recent ISA maps I haven\'t incorporated yet (thanks for reminding me - meant to do that tonight). It\'s 20 meg in size so I\'ll have to work out how drop box works or split the file and post instructions on how to join it after d/loading.

[PakledHostage]

Images like this simply blow my mind.

For comparison, I modified my mapping application to represent altitude in a gray scale rather than the colour scale that I used to make the maps that I posted above. Your map appears to use an Equidistant Cylindrical Projection so I also used that projection for my comparison map.

The colour maps that I posted above, on the other hand, use polar stereographic and Mercator Projection. These two projections have less severe distortion than the Equidistant Cylindrical Projection, especially near the poles. The colour also increases the altitude resolution because gray scales are limited to a resolution of just 256.

My maps have some slight artefacts that result from my altitude interpolation algorithm (I will work on improving the algorithm), but otherwise the two maps seem to be very comparable.

[togfox]

I\'m starting to process regions and features. Maltesh has a screeny of a pod on what he/she claims to be the highest mountain on Kerbin. I\'m actually maneuvoring to it right now to verify the screenshot and then I\'ll put it\'s attributes in the official \'name\' thread (which doesn\'t exist yet).

Umm, I have a name, except it is from RP. However, it is very general.

The location is attached.

The name is Lac-en-Vert, or Lake in Green (Preferably Greenlake).

EDIT: Oh derp, I don\'t have a screeny of a pod there handy. Is it okay if I claim I\'ve been there?

Ping - because you\'re naming a region (a very large inland lake) then we\'ll ask for more nominations and when we have three or more then we\'ll hold a poll so the community can share in the fun.

To KGS members, we don\'t have any \'real\' maps of Kerbin yet. If you have csv data then please make it available so it can be cross checked and inserted into the official map.

[togfox]

First official feature.

Name: Mount Vildan

Northern Hemisphere, Kerbin

Latitude: 62.680808

Longitude: 45.741960

Altitude:3752 meters above sea level

Comments: Unconfirmed highest mountain on Kerbin

Directions: Fly heading ~025 degrees from KSP

[photo to follow]

[togfox]

First official feature.

Name: Mount Vildan

Northern Hemisphere, Kerbin

Latitude: 62.680808

Longitude: 45.741960

Altitude:3752 meters above sea level

Comments: Unconfirmed highest mountain on Kerbin

Directions: Fly heading ~025 degrees from KSP

[khyron42]

Might as well start proposing names.

Screenshots of close-up, detailed location, and orbital view with lat/long displayed (in case it\'s too small to read, it\'s 11d25\'0'S, 169d54\'40'E):

Proposed name for the beach: Borgnine Beach. Would only apply to that small stretch of coast shown in screenshot two. Hopefully this is small enough to qualify for the 'Small Features' part of the naming.

Proposed name for the overall peninsula that it is on: Hydra Peninsula (also known as Hydrangea.) The area referred to with that name would end at the mountains in the northeast, as the land widens past that point to no longer be a proper peninsula.

Example use:

Dude 1: 'Hey, let\'s head down to Hydrangea. The surf\'s really nice at the beaches this time of year, and my cousin has a place right near Borgnine Beach.'

Dude 2: 'No way, man, didn\'t you hear? The whole Hydra Peninsula got whalloped by a hurricane earlier this week.'

Dude 1: 'Bummer! Let me call my cousin and make sure she\'s ok.'

To be clear, Hydrangea would not be a country name, just an alternate way of referring to the peninsula. It would be called Hydra Peninsula any time the two-word approach was wanted, but Hydrangea instead of Hydra in a single-word reference.

[togfox]

I think Borgnine Beach is fine. I\'ll type that up and register that as official. It\'s not like there are a few dozen people claiming that beach.

The Peninsula should go to a poll. When this thread gets enough attention (ie there are enough ppl to vote on a poll!) then I\'ll ask a Moderator to create one for the \'lake\' and one for this peninsula.

I\'m also going to need a graphic artist to put all these names on maps for me. Anyone who volunteers for this needs to be reliable. That doesn\'t mean they have to do things straight away, it just means someone who won\'t lose interest after the third map update. Let me know if anyone wants to do this in their free time.

[togfox]

Name: Decided by poll

Nominated names: Lac-en-Vert,

Northern Hemisphere, Kerbin

Latitude: 50 33\' 28' N

Longitude: 185 14\' 14' W

Altitude: 0 - sea level

Comments: Large inland lake

Directions: Fly heading ~140 degrees from KSP

[AD-Edge]

For comparison, I modified my mapping application to represent altitude in a gray scale rather than the colour scale that I used to make the maps that I posted above. Your map appears to use an Equidistant Cylindrical Projection so I also used that projection for my comparison map.

The colour maps that I posted above, on the other hand, use polar stereographic and Mercator Projection. These two projections have less severe distortion than the Equidistant Cylindrical Projection, especially near the poles. The colour also increases the altitude resolution because gray scales are limited to a resolution of just 256.

My maps have some slight artefacts that result from my altitude interpolation algorithm (I will work on improving the algorithm), but otherwise the two maps seem to be very comparable.

Has stuff like this been done for Kerbal yet? Ill be needed some full surface maps soon, in colour preferably, similar to this Munar map.