Mobility enhancer

[deadalnix]

Is there a reason why the come so late in the game ? That is really frustrating as it prevent to do interesting lander to go to Mun or Minmus, unless you do some stupid design like putting the pod on the bottom of the lander.

[NoMrBond]

Use R to turn on your Kerbal's jetpack while on EVA, then fly up to the command pod (or landing capsule).

It has easily enough power (and dV) to get you up of the ground and back to the top of your ship, even on Duna (although it's pretty marginal on Duna), although Mun, Minmus, Gilly etc no problem.

[cicatrix]

This ^^. You need ladder mobility enhancer only on Kerbin, Tylo and Eve. Probably Eeloo, but can't say for sure. On all other planets you have the TWR of your jet-pack >1 so you can fly.

[deadalnix]

Yes I know, the point being, this is arbitrary and a newcomer won't do this kind of stunt, so a newcomer won't visit new world before a while.

[cicatrix]

Yes I know, the point being, this is arbitrary and a newcomer won't do this kind of stunt, so a newcomer won't visit new world before a while.

I was a newcomer some time ago. Guess what? I didn't know that I could fly on the Mun but went there anyway (forgot about ladder completely).

[klgraham1013]

Use R to turn on your Kerbal's jetpack while on EVA, then fly up to the command pod (or landing capsule).

It has easily enough power (and dV) to get you up of the ground and back to the top of your ship, even on Duna (although it's pretty marginal on Duna), although Mun, Minmus, Gilly etc no problem.

This is not a good excuse for basic technology being in the wrong place on the tech tree.

Don't give excuses to poor design because there is a work around.

[Robotengineer]

This is not a good excuse for basic technology being in the wrong place on the tech tree.

Don't give excuses to poor design because there is a work around.

Agreed. The Cubic Octagonal Strut is another one of those parts that should be much lower in the tree.

[tater]

In August when I started I was baffled by the ladder unlock and did orbital munar missions, etc, so I could unlock a ladder. RCS on EVA never occurred to me.

[NoMrBond]

This is not a good excuse for basic technology being in the wrong place on the tech tree.

Don't give excuses to poor design because there is a work around.

It's a current and valid solution to the existing problem.

No debate regarding reorganising the tech tree is necessary when Squad have already announced that they're reorganising the tech tree.

[Kelderek]

Keep in mind also that you do not have immediate access to EVA either - you need to upgrade the Astronaut Complex first. So when you consider the lack of early EVA as well as the fact that the early non-Kerbin destinations (Mun and Minmus) have low enough gravity to use RCS, then I see no problem with where the mobility enhancers are in the tech tree. If you're worried about the intuitiveness of using RCS while on EVA or lack thereof, then that would be more of a tutorial issue than a tech tree one.

[Mr. Scruffy]

For ground based, vertical, activities a rope with a stone bound to one end would do the trick. In high g-enviroments you can save on the stone. The complaint about ladders being so late in the tree is less about gameplay and more about intuitivity or inherent logic. Okay, keep the mobility enhancers where they are, but give us said rope with a stone (retractable ladder auto-pointing towards g) earlier. The problem is about having something to climb on beyond the main structure of the ship (past the engine below, for example) and solving that problem in a most basic way is trivial IRL.

[Kerbart]

Keep in mind also that you do not have immediate access to EVA either - you need to upgrade the Astronaut Complex first. So when you consider the lack of early EVA as well as the fact that the early non-Kerbin destinations (Mun and Minmus) have low enough gravity to use RCS, then I see no problem with where the mobility enhancers are in the tech tree. If you're worried about the intuitiveness of using RCS while on EVA or lack thereof, then that would be more of a tutorial issue than a tech tree one.

While manned before unmanned is something I can see that is defendable (though questionable), I really, really, draw the line at “we can go to the moon. We just haven't invented ladders yet.â€Â

[Kelderek]

While manned before unmanned is something I can see that is defendable (though questionable), I really, really, draw the line at “we can go to the moon. We just haven't invented ladders yet.â€Â

I can understand how this looks from a logic point of view, ladders are fairly simple items and it is likely that they would be invented a long time in the past along with the wheel and fire. But my point is that you don't need to have ladders for a trip to the mun. I suspect that if the Apollo space suits had similar RCS built in that they might have saved some mass on the lander by taking off the ladder rungs - they were smart enough to realize that they didn't need any seats in the lander.

Right now the first mobility enhancer sits in the 90 science tier and I think that is fine. Maybe move it up one tier to the 45 science level. Based on what the devs have been saying in the DevNotes lately, I suspect this sort of thing will be addressed for everything in the tree for 1.0.