[outdated] SETI-Greenhouse, for a realistic process, consider the BioMass mod

[Jiraiyah]

The only 1.0.2 compatibility issue I found is, that it does not yet recognize the new CommunityTechTree and thus the parts are always at largeElectrics.

I could not find any other issue so far, it seems to work just fine.

I play in sand mode, so if i download from the op page it will work fine in 1.0.2? how about it's compatibility with tac life support's updates?

[TampaPowers]

As much as I love the whole greenhouse idea, I can't help but feel like the model just looks awful. I made a nicer one a while ago, if you can import it I'd gladly provide it.

[Yemo]

I play in sand mode, so if i download from the op page it will work fine in 1.0.2? how about it's compatibility with tac life support's updates?

Yes, the current version works fine in 1.0.2 with TAC life support (since the latter did not change as far as I know).

As much as I love the whole greenhouse idea, I can't help but feel like the model just looks awful. I made a nicer one a while ago, if you can import it I'd gladly provide it.

While the model does not look like a real greenhouse would look like, the main advantage is its form factor and that zzz made it public domain.

But I d certainly be interested in another model, maybe in addition to the one from zzz to provide more variety!

[TampaPowers]

http://two66.com/render/render_180.png Is what I have right now, just needs a uv-map and some textures, this is just geometry right now. I can model you anything really, just uv-map and textures I can't do.

[Yemo]

http://two66.com/render/render_180.png Is what I have right now, just needs a uv-map and some textures, this is just geometry right now. I can model you anything really, just uv-map and textures I can't do.

Looks great and the shades do not block the other windows like in the model from zzz, however I m totally inept at textures and modeling, I can only do code ;-).

Could you bring in the edges? At the moment it looks like that it does not quite fit into the 2.5m size, which is important for shuttles (Mk3 and MkIV) and other inline cargo systems. So that it does not protrude.

[TampaPowers]

I will re-design the thing from the ground up, trying to keep it inline with 2.5m. I sent a pm to someone who I been told could help with getting textures done, still waiting on the reply.

Anything particular you want in terms of design? dimensions? features?

EDIT: Yay or nay? http://two66.com/render/render_420.png

Edited May 6, 2015 by TampaPowers

[Yemo]

I will re-design the thing from the ground up, trying to keep it inline with 2.5m. I sent a pm to someone who I been told could help with getting textures done, still waiting on the reply.

Anything particular you want in terms of design? dimensions? features?

EDIT: Yay or nay? http://two66.com/render/render_420.png

Based on the current indoor high efficiency led greenhouses (like that one in Japan) and russian experiences with submarines and long term space flight (especially the need for "recreation"/greenery), this is my concept for a greenhouse:

The measurements are not exact, it is just a rough concept.

It has an upper "recreation deck", which has 4 of your windows on either side, providing a great view to the top and either side (so 8 greenhouse windows in total). The for and aft walls show greenery as well as a small strip of greenery behind the couches.

There is a vertical access to the passage way, which goes beneath the recreation area. It connects to the center of the greenhouse segment, to allow for easy access to 1.25m ports towards other station segments.

All the other areas are basically not visible from outside as they contain those "production efficient" LED shelves.

Imho that is a good compromise between real world LED greenhouse, recreational area and overall looks. I left it relatively generic, so that it can be scaled for 3.75m and 2.5m diameter (maybe build it in 3.75m so that it can be downscaled without texture problems).

Compared to your concept above, it would be at least 1/3 longer and would only have the center 8 windows for the recreational area, since orbital greenhouses would use LEDs for the plants anyway to guarantee illumination and shield the plants from the sunlight UV and other radiation, which would have been blocked by the atmosphere.

[TampaPowers]

So its more of a recreational thing then, sure I can make that and the internals. Don't quite get how couches are supposed to work in zero g, but sure

I could even make shelves with these LED plant growers you can view from the lower deck.

EDIT: http://two66.com/render/render_421.png That more like it?

Edited May 6, 2015 by TampaPowers

[Yemo]

So its more of a recreational thing then, sure I can make that and the internals. Don't quite get how couches are supposed to work in zero g, but sure

I could even make shelves with these LED plant growers you can view from the lower deck.

In terms of volume, the concept would be I guess about 3/5 high density LED plant shelves, 1/5 passage way and 1/5recreational area (since the no window front and rear quarters of the upper deck would be shelves as well).

Shelves in the lower decks would be amazing, but I m not sure how it would impact performance. Maybe just shelve like textures/model bumps for the front and rear end of the recreational area and the sides of the passage way for performance?

About the couches, I m not sure myself, but it would look great!

And one idea for pseudo "artificial gravity" is, to have the cosmonauts wear special suits and create something like a magnetic field from the "floor". Which would attract the suits. If the suits are tight enough, it could "simulate" gravity in terms of effort needed to walk and climb.

[edrobotguy]

Are those the numbers you set for TAC Life Support? Then the calculation of 0.3 : 0.1 is correct.

Because my TAC life support config file says:

FoodConsumptionRate = 1.6927083333E-05

WaterConsumptionRate = 1.1188078704E-05

OxygenConsumptionRate = 0.001713537562385

Which translates to 6*3600*(1.6927083333*10^-5) = 3.656249999928 food per kerbin day (6 hours)

2.416625000064 water per kerbin day

37.012411347516 oxygen per kerbin day

Which would lead to about 1.513 food : 1 water.

Mapoko is getting a ratio of 1.5 food : 1 water : 80 oxygen. You're getting 1.5 food : 1 water : 15 oxygen. (2 significant figures should be enough)

Somewhere there is a conversion error, or you're operating under different assumptions about oxygen consumption.

[edrobotguy]

I'm looking forward to the new model. It looks good and matches some of the ideas that Space Island Group had about reusing the external fuel tanks from shuttle launches (leaving them in orbit and converting them to hotels).

I've been using the Lacuna greenhouse to fill the gap in TAC lately, and it also uses zzz's model. However, something changed in between 0.9.0 and 1.0.2 and now the model is behaving strangely. With both the Lacuna greenhouse and the SETI greenhouse, the part will only connect correctly at one end, even though both sides show green spheres. The other end refuses to connect to parts normally, but will connect to the opposite end of a part; for instance, it won't connect to the "back end" of a clamp-o-tron sr., but it will connect to the "business end" of the clamp-o-tron and kind of swallow the docking port inside the greenhouse model. This is common to both mods, and nothing changed in the model of the greenhouse that both mods share; KSP is just recognizing the model differently for some reason.

Another problem with the old model is that is nigh-impossible to attach anything to the surface. This is inconvenient if you want to make it part of a base and want to add wheels; I've been using large SAS at each end, but that's not really a pass-thru. In orbit, it would be nice to add external ladders.

If one has TAC and Extraplanetary Launchpads and this greenhouse mod, it is possible to build up some very long duration bases - but you still need a periodic supply of food. I'd like to see a more-than-breakeven scenario, where Kerbals could use Ore and electrical power to make Oxygen, water, and food. That way the launchpad could make additional greenhouse modules, and the base can grow using local resources.

So basically what I'm suggesting is another part to bridge that final ISRU gap: the Mulcherator. When paired with the Greenhouse, power, and a supply of Ore, it would increase the production of food, water, and oxygen. The greenhouse's consumption of CO2, waste water, and waste would remain the same, as the Mulcherator would be deriving those extra chemicals for production from the Ore. A limit could be set, say one Mulcherator can only help one greenhouse by increasing production by 10%, and it must be connected to that greenhouse, a maximum of one on each end. Consumption of Ore and electrical power would be tied to the increased production of food, water, and oxygen, say 10 times the mass of Ore consumed per extra mass of food, water, and oxygen (the slag gets dumped) and a substantial hit on electrical power. The model can just be a short (0.75m long) cylinder matching the end of your render_421.png greenhouse model (to which I give three thumbs up). Matching the texture to whatever texture you choose for the exterior of the greenhouse should be trivial.

This would be a way to avoid the huge supply chain and zillions of resources needed for MKS, while still providing a challenge to players and (when paired with extraplanetary launchpads) provide a way to make true colonization possible using local resources in a semi-realistic way. All with just a greenhouse and a mulcherator (ore mining and storage equipment sold separately).

- - - Updated - - -

I just had another idea. Will the new model be able to hold Kerbals inside it? If so, how about giving them something to do? Say the greenhouse works ok autonomously, perhaps at 70% of its rated efficiency, but that goes to 75% with a 0 star scientist on board, up to 100% with a 5 star scientist. If it can hold more than one Kerbal, then only the top scientist is counted.

[Yemo]

Mapoko is getting a ratio of 1.5 food : 1 water : 80 oxygen. You're getting 1.5 food : 1 water : 15 oxygen. (2 significant figures should be enough)

Somewhere there is a conversion error, or you're operating under different assumptions about oxygen consumption.

Whoops, my numbers should be

0.3656249999928 food per kerbin day

0.2416625000064 water per kerbin day

37.012411347516 oxygen per kerbin day

so a ratio of about 1.51 food : 1 water : 153 oxygen.

I will have to recheck with TAC Life Support for the base numbers.

[lajoswinkler]

As the DeepFreeze mod is abandoned, I'm considering to use this module for producing food for 4 Kerbals on their way to Urlum (Outer Planets Mod) on my Kron 4 mission.

Does this greenhouse require sunlight or can it work with electricity only? I'd carry a nuclear reactor. Urlum is so far away from Kerbol and it's so dark there that solar panels don't work anymore.

[Yemo]

As the DeepFreeze mod is abandoned, I'm considering to use this module for producing food for 4 Kerbals on their way to Urlum (Outer Planets Mod) on my Kron 4 mission.

Does this greenhouse require sunlight or can it work with electricity only? I'd carry a nuclear reactor. Urlum is so far away from Kerbol and it's so dark there that solar panels don't work anymore.

The convertes only use electricity, like real world high efficiency greenhouses/organics factories.

The windows are just eye candy.

Looking at your mission, I have to get back into interstellar again, though too much stuff to update at the moment .

[lajoswinkler]

So if I wanted to send 4 Kerbals on a stupidly long mission and they're awake all the time, I should pack 3 greenhouses and... what do you recommend for the supplies? Are TAC's matter recyclers even neccessary?

[Yemo]

So if I wanted to send 4 Kerbals on a stupidly long mission and they're awake all the time, I should pack 3 greenhouses and... what do you recommend for the supplies? Are TAC's matter recyclers even neccessary?

For 4 kerbals, you would need 4 of the 2.5m greenhouses, or one 2.5m and one 3.75m greenhouse. Since the greenhouses consume all of the waste products of a kerbal, there is nothing left for a TAC recycler to work with.

Just be sure to calculate the needed supplies correctly. 10% of the usual water and 20% of the usual food. And dont forget to switch on the Food-Nutrient converters of the greenhouses as well.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Yemo

[Yemo]

SETI-Greenhouse 0.9.1 (for KSP 1.0.2)

Fixes

• BottomNode fixed for 1.0.x
  
• CommunityTechTree compatibility fix for CTT 2.x
  
• Some minor fixes, eg maxTemp to 1200
  

TAC Life Support versions now include 3 day waste/wastewater/CO2 storage

ModSupport: USI Life Support

• With a SETIgreenhouse, 100 supplies last for 200 days, per kerbal
  
• Thus it is a bit more efficient than the USI LS greenhouse
  
• But available later, much more expensive and 1/3rd heavier
  

Edited May 12, 2015 by Yemo

[lajoswinkler]

I've been testing a vessel with four Kerbals and four 2.5 m greenhouses. 126 days in orbit.

Results:

- water is not being depleted (weird, but great!)

- oxygen is completely recycled

- 148 units of food spent

Conclusions:

- no need for carrying waste and oxygen tanks, as each vessel's internal TAC storage is enough as a buffer

- taking plenty of food is a good idea

Water issue is puzzling. Should I pack or should I not?

[Red3Tango]

Im getting the same results @lajoswinkler with both sizes of greenhouses.

Starting resources (1 kerbal - 3 days) Food 1.10 - Water 0.73 - Oxygen 111

Ending resources (15 days later) Food 0.00 - Water 0.72 - Oxygen 111

I am using with TAC Life Support.

Water did drop 0.01 but they may have just been a rounding error, as the "Life Support Monitor" in TAC actually shows water has more remaining than 3 days (3d 00:00:01)

[Cairan]

Just a side note, the greenhouse should also be a directional light source on the side the shutters open, it looks kinda weird and unnatural otherwise.

Other than that, +1 for this very useful mod.

[jackal40]

Great looking mod, glad you've updated to 1.0.2 (sadly, I just found it).

[Yemo]

Thank you all!

I will fix the water production to the intended 90% for the next version (is at 100% at the moment).

But I ll wait for 1.0.3 to release it.

@Cairan: I only made the configs, using the model by zzz. I would prefer another greenhouse model myself, as outlined on one of the previous pages.

However I lack the modelling skills and the motivation to do so at the moment.

[Yemo]

SETI-Greenhouse 0.9.2 for KSP 1.0.4

Fixes

• Water output only provides 90% of one kerbals water, as intended
  

[Wolfox]

Great in combination with TACLS mining mod (modifies stock ISRU to gather TACLS resources). In fact, thanks to this mod, I can run really self-sustaining bases on other planets without ISU (which I really like, but I try to avoid using it since its VERY memory hungry mod). Thanks for this mod (and other SETI mods), keep up the good work!

[Meridius]

Want to add snacks? I am currently running IonCross as well.