Getting to space for only pennies! Low Budget Space Program

[LowBudgetSpaceProgram]

Hello all!

My name is Kevin and I am a part of the Low Budget Space Program. Our goal is to send a home built rocket into space at the cheapest cost. Right now we are using sugar (propellant) and potassium nitrate (oxidizer) since they can easily be bought at a local store and they are CHEAP. I have 4 years in model rocketry experience and building homemade rocket motors is a new challenge for me. We are able to make an E rocket motor equivalent for only $0.90 ! Normally an E would cost around $20! We have tested many batches of fuel and found the best ratio. However our launches have been inconsistent. I was wondering if you guys had any contributing comments that would help us along our path of getting to space.

Here is our most recent launch video:

And here are our motor tests with surprising results:

I know this type of fuel has been known since the dawn of the space race, however nobody is really doing anything with it today. We were fascinated with the idea of this cheap fuel and would love to kick off a space race in our back yards. Any contributing comments would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[Bill Phil]

First, you'll want to talk to the FAA about it. You don't want to break the law.

Second, you're going to need a LOT of money.

What's your payload, anyways? A camera and a controller to take pictures? If so, you'll need less than a V-2, but still quite a lot. Especially with sugar rockets.

Maybe look into APCP? You probably aren't allowed to get it, but, maybe?

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and probably some sort of tubing, maybe composite?

[LowBudgetSpaceProgram]

First, you'll want to talk to the FAA about it. You don't want to break the law.

Second, you're going to need a LOT of money.

What's your payload, anyways? A camera and a controller to take pictures? If so, you'll need less than a V-2, but still quite a lot. Especially with sugar rockets.

Maybe look into APCP? You probably aren't allowed to get it, but, maybe?

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and probably some sort of tubing, maybe composite?

Thank you for the reply. The FAA will let people launch high altitude rockets with the proper form. Right now we are working well within the legal parameters for rocket motors. We are trying to send up a small camera so the cost will be low. The sugar and KNO3 fuel is less efficient than what NASA uses however it is significantly cheaper. Plus, this is just a suborbital flight so not as much delta-v is needed. As for the body, we are using standard PVC pipe now but that may change if we find a cheaper alternative that is still strong.

Thanks!

[Bill Phil]

Delta V is in fact low, that is true. However, Sugar Rockets have very low Isp, so larger mass ratios are needed.

[LowBudgetSpaceProgram]

Delta V is in fact low, that is true. However, Sugar Rockets have very low Isp, so larger mass ratios are needed.

Yes that is right, the ISP of sugar rockets are about 130 s whereas NASA rockets are in the 250 range. Sugar still cheaper though.

[mrfox]

As a reference, this is the only other amateur rocket so far to make it up to "space".

http://www.the-rocketman.com/go-fast.html

[LowBudgetSpaceProgram]

Oh yeah I have seen these guys before! Yeah probably bigger than that if I am using sugar. Thank you for the comment!

[Kerbart]

I know this type of fuel has been known since the dawn of the space race, however nobody is really doing anything with it today. We were fascinated with the idea of this cheap fuel and would love to kick off a space race in our back yards. Any contributing comments would be greatly appreciated.

Except for these guys then.

[LowBudgetSpaceProgram]

That is really cool! That is a big rocket. So it looks like it can be done then if they are so close. But we are all about trying to be as cheap as possible. These guys are using all metal which looks expensive.

[vitekc45c]

As others said, sugar has low isp so maybe you could use model jet engines as boosters, they may not be cheap but you can recover them using parachutes and reuse them.And ofcourse you could try making the entire rocket reusable.

[Kibble]

If you can develope a cheap and lightweight method of staging, it could make up for low Isp with mass ratio. Five stages to suborbit!

[jwenting]

and that inconsistency in results is due in no small part due to inconsistencies in the way you pack the rocket fuel. Even tiny differences in density and mixing can have a huge effect.

That's why commercial solid fuel rocket manufacturing is an expensive and complicated process. And often uses fuels that can be poured as a liquid into a mould and then harden into the solid fuel.

[mrfox]

How about a balloon for a low cost first stage?

[Streetwind]

This XKCD what-if question should give you some context as to just how hard it is to get something to space with low Isp engines. He even explicitly named the model rocket motor he used to model this, which gives you a great reference point to compare your own rocket motor's performance against.

[peadar1987]

This is probably relevant here:

Rocket science is, in fact, hard!

[LowBudgetSpaceProgram]

Wow thank you everyone for the great feedback! I think you are right jwenting, it could be our mixture. We mix the fuel in the pan as it is cooking and then we pour it in after it liquifies. I guess we need to try mixing it before we drop it in the pan. Once we get it down I'll post a thorough tutorial if you guys are interested. Yes rocket science is hard haha but it is also fun for me to experiment and launch my own rockets. This stuff is dangerous though, the whole batch could ignite while you are cooking it. Check out the end of my motor tests video to see what happens.

[vger]

How about a balloon for a low cost first stage?

I've had that idea before for getting an amateur rocket into space. Trouble is once it reaches its maximum altitude... have you seen the video footage from amateur weather balloon launches? The thing gets tossed all over the place like a leaf in a hurricane. How to ensure the rocket is pointing in the right direction when you fire it?

[michaelsteele3]

That seems really cool!

[LowBudgetSpaceProgram]

I've had that idea before for getting an amateur rocket into space. Trouble is once it reaches its maximum altitude... have you seen the video footage from amateur weather balloon launches? The thing gets tossed all over the place like a leaf in a hurricane. How to ensure the rocket is pointing in the right direction when you fire it?

Yeah that's a good question. Once the rocket is in a thinner part of the atmosphere I cannot rely on fins for stabilization. One alternative we were thinking of was to use a small electric motor to power a small disk to act as a gyroscope and keep it stabilized. As for descent we would deploy a parachute that can maneuver the rocket by pulling on the strings holding the chute. This is similar to the US Army's new high altitude airdrops. Thanks for the comment!

[xenomorph555]

If you ever try sugar rockets again, here is some tips:

-You can by the proper motor casings online, you don't need to make them.

-Always cover the motor with clay "nozzles", they only have to be small holes in the clay. If you don't use nozzles it's a waste of resources.

-Sugar and KNO3 is weak on it's own, use additives like red iron oxide (to increase burn rate/more thrust) or sulphur powder (to increase fuel energy). Don't use too much additives though only small amounts.

-Don't launch retarded, un-aerodynamic rockets like that one on the video. It's stupid and could lead to terrible things happening (fires, injurys, neighbours and police involved), you remind me of my brother.

-BE CAREFUL WITH SOLID FUEL!

-Do not buy sodium perchlorate as a "higher power alternative" because it's bad stuff, trust me.

-Beware the police, in the UK if you get caught you will most likely get the "stupid kids doing stupid things" treatment. I don't know about the US but I'm guessing you'll get branded a terrorist.

Source-was a rocketeer for a long time, ended when my idiot brother had an accident.

[The_8th_Bit]

First of all, I would recommend finding a local rocketry club. They will be able to help you especially with the legal FAA stuff.

Secondly, when designing your rockets, there is a lot of aerodynamic stuff to consider. Here is a link to free software that you can use to design rockets.

Link:

http://openrocket.sourceforge.net/

It's geared for smaller rockets but will handle larger ones. My college's rocketry team uses this software, and we built a rocket designed to fly to 25,000 feet.

Also, recovery is important. There are a lot of parachute options. Below is a very good paper about recovery systems for large rockets. It may be too much for where you are now but as your designs grow a lot of this information will become very useful.

http://www.ricknewlands.webspace.virginmedia.com/downloads/technical-papers/Parachute%20recovery%20system%20design%20for%20large%20rockets.pdf

Finally, PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!! These things can be very dangerous. I will reiterate that it is a very good idea to join a club because they will help you stay safe.

[LowBudgetSpaceProgram]

If you ever try sugar rockets again, here is some tips:

-You can by the proper motor casings online, you don't need to make them.

-Always cover the motor with clay "nozzles", they only have to be small holes in the clay. If you don't use nozzles it's a waste of resources.

-Sugar and KNO3 is weak on it's own, use additives like red iron oxide (to increase burn rate/more thrust) or sulphur powder (to increase fuel energy). Don't use too much additives though only small amounts.

-Don't launch retarded, un-aerodynamic rockets like that one on the video. It's stupid and could lead to terrible things happening (fires, injurys, neighbours and police involved), you remind me of my brother.

-BE CAREFUL WITH SOLID FUEL!

-Do not buy sodium perchlorate as a "higher power alternative" because it's bad stuff, trust me.

-Beware the police, in the UK if you get caught you will most likely get the "stupid kids doing stupid things" treatment. I don't know about the US but I'm guessing you'll get branded a terrorist.

Source-was a rocketeer for a long time, ended when my idiot brother had an accident.

Thank you for your concern. The rocket was not expected to launch very high. I launched it well away from any houses or windows. There were trees but they were far enough away due to the strength of the motor. I have checked the laws and found that this is completely legal. This "retarded" rocket has enough aerodynamics for what it is. My years in model rocketry has helped me reassure that this rocket would fly straight for its motor. The nonsense around the rocket neither aids or hinders(aside from drag) the rocket and is purely for cosmetics to show the "aesthetic" of our low budget. I am sorry about your brother and thank you for the input.

- - - Updated - - -

First of all, I would recommend finding a local rocketry club. They will be able to help you especially with the legal FAA stuff.

Secondly, when designing your rockets, there is a lot of aerodynamic stuff to consider. Here is a link to free software that you can use to design rockets.

Link:

http://openrocket.sourceforge.net/

It's geared for smaller rockets but will handle larger ones. My college's rocketry team uses this software, and we built a rocket designed to fly to 25,000 feet.

Also, recovery is important. There are a lot of parachute options. Below is a very good paper about recovery systems for large rockets. It may be too much for where you are now but as your designs grow a lot of this information will become very useful.

http://www.ricknewlands.webspace.virginmedia.com/downloads/technical-papers/Parachute%20recovery%20system%20design%20for%20large%20rockets.pdf

Finally, PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!! These things can be very dangerous. I will reiterate that it is a very good idea to join a club because they will help you stay safe.

Thank you for the info! I was in a rocket club for 4 years and used this software a lot. I understand the safety concern and I really haven't conveyed it in my videos but I assure you I take all safety precautions. If I am going to launch rockets to higher altitudes I will need help from local communities since my old club only launched rockets to about 2000ft. Thank you for the parachute info!

[BagelRabbit]

I'm currently working on a project to get stuff into space too! I know it's far-fetched, but I've done plenty of simulations and have ~10yrs of experience building large-ish rockets. This plan would, as mrfox said, use a weather balloon as a first stage. Once the rocket has been lifted to altitude (100k feet-ish), it will fire two stages. The first stage will be enough to push the rocket about 60,000 feet further into the air, and the second stage will take it to space (peak altitude achieved looks to be about 325,000 feet on paper).

I've had that idea before for getting an amateur rocket into space. Trouble is once it reaches its maximum altitude... have you seen the video footage from amateur weather balloon launches? The thing gets tossed all over the place like a leaf in a hurricane. How to ensure the rocket is pointing in the right direction when you fire it?

I'm assuming you mean right after the balloon pops (otherwise, the ascent is quite smooth if proper measures are taken). You don't really have to wait until after the balloon pops to fire your rocket: you can either fire the rocket through the balloon on the way up (the Army did this for some rocket tests before NASA was formed) or you can fire the rocket at an angle, so that it misses the balloon on the way up. I'm doing the latter, in spite of some slight performance costs, because of worries that the rocket will be knocked off-course while passing through the balloon.

As for stability, the rocket will be stable if it is spinning. It doesn't even have to spin all that fast: one revolution per second would be sufficient. No need for gyros or anything else.

Finally, it is far more costly to make your own rocket motors than it is to buy them. If you're making and testing large motors, the government of your country will notice. If you're in America, they may view you as a terrorist. You will thus have to get the government's express consent to make rocket motors, which involves certifying the place where you make motors as a facility and paying lots of fees. To contrast, the upper stage of my space shot will be an H135-W motor, which costs $32 from Apogee Components (and even cheaper elsewhere), is very efficient compared to sugar motors, and requires nothing more than a High-Power Level 1 certification, which you're probably going to get anyway if you're working on a project like this one.

Don't use sugar motors. They're very tempting, but they aren't the magic solution you may think they are.

-Upsilon

[LowBudgetSpaceProgram]

Thanks Upsilon for your input. I think that it is great that more people are getting into the hobby of launching high altitude rockets. It shows that we don't need to rely on NASA and other space agencies to send all the rockets. As long as you stay within the legal parameters of model rocketry, you are allowed to make your own fuels at home. If however you start making large quantities and exceed the maximum amount of fuel a hobby rocket is allowed to have, then you will need to ask permission from the government. I like your idea of the weather balloon + rocket. We had a similar idea of a fan + rocket but the balloon is a lot cheaper and efficient. I'm wondering how you plan on spinning the rocket after you eject it off the balloon? Sugar rockets aren't the magic you are right, but that is why we aren't called the sugar rocket space program. We are the Low Budget Space Program and aim to get to space at the lowest cost possible. Sugar rockets are a good starter for us and hope to build hybrid rockets. Those get even more dangerous but has a lot of potential. And who knows, maybe sugar rockets will stick around with us and we can use them as boosters along side our hybrid motors. They still have that tempting price tag. Thanks !

[peadar1987]

If you want the rocket to spin, put small guide vanes in your nozzle to deflect the exhaust.