The End of an era aka My two cents on One-point-oh

[viktor19]

It's the evening of April 21st as I open KSP forum site. Usually I always start with Announcements forum. There just under sticky threads something catches my eye. Title says: "Just 7 days til Kerbal Space Program 1.0 comes out!". I open it and read it. "Wow! I knew it was soon, but this was unexpected!"

Even though I know KSP will continue development through 1.0 and get more players, features and attention, I still feel like this is the end of an era. Since I started playing back in 0.10, I've always been used to play a "non-finished" game, until now.

I will do a farewell mission before 27th, and then get my hands on shiny new 1.0. Maybe even do a return mission from Eve in it!

I hope you understand my feels: it's not about the souposphere or directly reentering on return from Jool. For me things won't be the same.

[Tex]

It does kinda feel like that, now that you mention it... But I see it as a period of transition. Say the switch from Gemini to Apollo. We've had a lot of fun playing around and helping SQUAD make a better game, but now it's time to take what we've learned and applied and ship it off and get some real things going. Time to go to the Mun, folks!

[ImJake]

Make your last brick-ships while you can

[Guest]

I won't be looking back. KSP is finally getting the treatment and features it deserves; for once in a long time I'm looking forward to trying out stock.

[viktor19]

Time to go to the Mun, folks!

With new fairings also!

Make your last brick-ships while you can

I have FAR so no bricks for me.

[Broax]

I've started playing KSP only at version 0.23 and I can relate to that so I can only imagine how you feel...

On the other hand it's good to think I won't have to be updating my whole mod list every other month!

[EtherDragon]

"it was the best of times it was the worst of times," to steal a quote.

In seriousness though, KSP 0.90 was really good, with just some glairing tweaks needed (like a balance pass at Career Mode). It was a very fitting Beta version before release and we got to experience the full Career Mode game-cycle.

The Pre-Release era for KSP is coming to a close. Now we move into post release - which is partially the age of Merch!

[Wallygator]

I'm looking toward to it.

The move away from early access also demands that our Dev Team up their game and improve their processes and the way they communicate. This represents a major shift and also a serious test of how well they will deliver. For they first time, the dev team will be under proper stress from the market.

This can only result in improvements long term.

[Frozen_Heart]

I'm both looking forward to official release and feeling sad about it. I started playing in 0.17 and both the game and the forums were very different back then. Most of the people I met upon joining have long since disappeared.

[LadyAthena]

I won't be looking back. KSP is finally getting the treatment and features it deserves; for once in a long time I'm looking forward to trying out stock.

I joined a year ago, and while I agree it does feel like a change and things won't the same. I have to also agree with Regex. Maybe now I'll be able to dump some mods, open up more space for other mods I've been wanting but havn't been able to use.

That, and simply enjoying stock alot more.

[Renegrade]

I won't be looking back. KSP is finally getting the treatment and features it deserves; for once in a long time I'm looking forward to trying out stock.

While I agree with the features (the souposphere has turned from something funny to something more like cancer for me, and the bass-ackward Isp crap will NOT be missed), and that perhaps they'll actually put some effort into bugfixing now, I'm also rather afraid that their molasses-slow / low-feature updates will become even SLOWER and lower-feature. Like Debian Stable LTS (good for servers, not quite so good for desktops).

Consider for instance that they'll be a lot less willing to break save compatibility post 1.0... or do other riskier things that might be acceptable in an 'Electronic Arts'-style er I mean 'Early Access'-style game.

(inb4 1.0 lasting all of a day before emergency patch 1.0.1 btw )

[Temeter]

It's been a while, isn't it? I think I started around 0.16, a bit more than two years ago. 1.0 will finally be a full game, although it's more like another step along a road. I will take that opportunity to finally visit all planets. Never felt the need to visit 2 or 3 of the jool moons, gilly, and eelo.

There is one last mission I want to make in the soon outdated stock atmosphere, though. I've never managed to make an eve return mission. Might get to easy in the new aerodynamic modell.^^

[Hobbes Novakoff]

Molasses-slow? A major update every 75 days is not molasses-slow. We were in 0.23 less than a year ago.

[Guest]

While I agree with the features (the souposphere has turned from something funny to something more like cancer for me, and the bass-ackward Isp crap will NOT be missed), and that perhaps they'll actually put some effort into bugfixing now, I'm also rather afraid that their molasses-slow / low-feature updates will become even SLOWER and lower-feature. Like Debian Stable LTS (good for servers, not quite so good for desktops).

Consider for instance that they'll be a lot less willing to break save compatibility post 1.0... or do other riskier things that might be acceptable in an 'Electronic Arts'-style er I mean 'Early Access'-style game.

I get that but, aside from bugfixing, I can't imagine them adding any new features that I personally will be excited about. Quite frankly mods do a lot of things better than stock ever will. For instance, Engineer will be better than any stock delta-V/informational feature because KSP has to stick to its design paradigm of starving the player of information while enforcing a repeated build-test-fly regime. I can't possibly see them adding a customizable multi-field display, even though nearly all of that information is literally available through the game. Imagine Squad doing a Real Fuels type implementation; it would suck compared to actual Real Fuels because they'd have to stick to the simplicity of stock design.

Anything else that comes along will either be completely useless to me, a bugfix, or additional gravy. I'll play stock for a time and I'll be very happy for all the things that were added, most especially because they will also help along the realism mods I enjoy and contribute to, but stock KSP is just too simpleminded to provide the detail for how I like playing. I don't think extra updates beyond bugfixing will be nearly as exciting as this update to me.

One thing I am looking forward to, however, is Unity 5. I seriously hope Squad considers upgrading because other games I follow have reported great improvements because of it. Double-precision floating point calculations would be very welcome in the game too. I can wait quite patiently for that, so long as I know it's on the horizon.

Edited April 23, 2015 by regex

[Renegrade]

Molasses-slow? A major update every 75 days is not molasses-slow. We were in 0.23 less than a year ago.

Yeah and we're at 0.26 now. 0.23 and 0.25 were also rather non-updates (.25 was mostly done by a third party). In Space Engineer terms, it's taken us a year (actually getting towards two from 0.22) to advance about two to three weeks.

My own dev notes show more progress in two days on my own little projects (this ain't my day job kids) than KSP does (this EFFING well IS Harv's day job) in two years.

So I say, glacial. No.. continential-drift..ial.

I get that but, aside from bugfixing, I can't imagine them adding any new features that I personally will be excited about. Quite frankly mods do a lot of things better than stock ever will.

There's a bit of a point there, but I've never seen a post from a modder stating anything like "oh, Squad's modding API is so complete and useful" (usually the exact opposite, with swear words thrown in). That's one of the things they could improve that no modder could do at all.

Imagine Squad doing a Real Fuels type implementation; it would suck compared to actual Real Fuels because they'd have to stick to the simplicity of stock design.

Two things:

1. Imma gonna be blunt here - RF, while cool, has a terrible UI. Squad could hardly do worse even if they were an actual squad of chimpanzees (like the logo implies).

2. If they made an RF-usable framework, maybe it would actually work with TAC_LS then (or was that MFT that was getting all screwy? I forget -- the point is that a centralized framework would help reduce the ModuleManager-config hell a bit, and my command pods won't suddenly mysteriously have two sets of life support, or none, randomly upon loading).

Anything else that comes along will either be completely useless to me, a bugfix, or additional gravy. I'll play stock for a time and I'll be very happy for all the things that were added, most especially because they will also help along the realism mods I enjoy and contribute to, but stock KSP is just too simpleminded to provide the detail for how I like playing. I don't think extra updates beyond bugfixing will be nearly as exciting as this update to me.

How about a planet-scaling/tweaking/editing/adding framework that doesn't involve rude hacks that don't work half the time? Actually, they probably wouldn't ever do that anyways, fast updates or no. Nevermind.

(I do like me some scaling, it's usually in the opposite direction that you like though heh. Smaller isn't necessarily less challenging - try landing on Gregox's 'Sprinkle' mini-minmus. Then try again after updating it to 1.0g surface gravity~ The point being though, that a framework would simplify things greatly, as well as improve stability)

One thing I am looking forward to, however, is Unity 5. I seriously hope Squad considers upgrading because other games I follow have reported great improvements because of it. Double-precision floating point calculations would be very welcome in the game too. I can wait quite patiently for that, so long as I know it's on the horizon.

Harv's old post about Unity 4 growing pains doesn't make me very enthusiastic about U5's chances at Squad HQ. Probably gonna be a while before we see that. And again, that's sorta an early-access kinda issue - Squad's going to be less eager to roll out buggy updates post-1.0, and a U5 port will not be a simple and clean thing (based on Harv's post, and I noted that 7DTD is having some growing pains with U5 too). So what do they do? Run development on two branches, or simply clam up for a year and half while they work it out internally? They certainly can't roll it out with 1.1 and say, "oh, we went to U5, there will be lots of bugs, we're early access so just deal with it for the next few updates while we sort it out" anymore.

Which is precisely the kind of thing I'm talking about.

[viktor19]

...so just deal with it for the next few updates while we sort it out...

[Guest]

My own dev notes show more progress in two days on my own little projects (this ain't my day job kids) than KSP does (this EFFING well IS Harv's day job) in two years.

This is true. My own code for RSS, the KSCSwitcher utility, took roughly ten hours all told, general bugfixing included. I don't recall the time I put into PreciseNode before handing it off, maybe fifty hours on the outside, with a wife, kid, and development day job?

There's a bit of a point there, but I've never seen a post from a modder stating anything like "oh, Squad's modding API is so complete and useful" (usually the exact opposite, with swear words thrown in). That's one of the things they could improve that no modder could do at all.

Saying that KSP has a "modding API" in the first place is a massive overstatement, and I don't think that will ever change. What Squad could do is make their own functions more open and portable, but I don't think they have much experience there (the asteroid code comes to mind, as well as KSC upgrading, I'll be checking into both again once 1.0 comes out).

Imma gonna be blunt here - RF, while cool, has a terrible UI.

Considering what it's trying to do, I don't know how it could be much better, but if you have ideas, please forward them on; I might feel inspired (apparently NathanKell trusts me implicitly).

They certainly can't roll it out with 1.1 and say, "oh, we went to U5, there will be lots of bugs, we're early access so just deal with it for the next few updates while we sort it out" anymore.

That's a shame, really, because U5 (actually just double-precision) is sorely needed for this game. Hopefully someone else will come along and do this new genre credit.

Which is precisely the kind of thing I'm talking about.

You have a point. I suppose all I'm saying is that I trust my modders now and am willing to be patient because I don't expect much more from Squad.

[SemiaCloud]

I will just get multiple installs.

[Thomas988]

I will just get multiple installs.

I'm going to do the same. I've been stupid enough to get rid of my old versions of KSP, so I might as well keep one before 1.0.

[Rocketfeline]

I feel like I will miss the kraken. But its not healthy for a game to be in early access for so long. If this game was in early access for about 6 years it wouldn't work. I feel emotionally mixed about this. I can now have no more OCD with my crafts with fancy dancy fairings!

[Renegrade]

Saying that KSP has a "modding API" in the first place is a massive overstatement, and I don't think that will ever change. What Squad could do is make their own functions more open and portable, but I don't think they have much experience there (the asteroid code comes to mind, as well as KSC upgrading, I'll be checking into both again once 1.0 comes out).

You're probably right there unfortunately. It's kept me out of modding KSP myself in fact (well, I also loathe modern languages, but that wouldn't be enough BY ITSELF to keep me out).

Considering what it's trying to do, I don't know how it could be much better, but if you have ideas, please forward them on; I might feel inspired (apparently NathanKell trusts me implicitly).

Ah crap, my last install with it is borked with that multi-LS issue still, as I did have a bunch of suggestions for it. The one I recall the most though is that the huge killer scrolling list of fuels is kinda klunky, and being able to hide 'em wouldn't be amiss (kinda like how ARP can be configured to hide resources. I generally don't use fuels other than kero-lox, hydro-lox, and NTO/hydrazine, for instance, so the other more obscure fuels are just filling up my kinda dated, low-res "FullHD" screen). Also I seem to recall some silly restrictions on what can go where re: energy storage and xenon and such -- but that miiiight be MFT again and isn't directly a UI thing.

Anyhow, the rest of it had to do with how a tank is partitioned - I seem to recall it was rather clunky, especially if you want to change ratios up. I'll provide some feedback in the RF thread at a later date re: the UI in the post-1.0 era. I will visit it again -the UI might be evil, but the rest of it is fun to design with and I absolutely adore the 'engine progression' system (where they get better as engine nodes are unlocked..although the UI end of that could be overhauled a bit too)

That's a shame, really, because U5 (actually just double-precision) is sorely needed for this game. Hopefully someone else will come along and do this new genre credit.

I've been tempted to assault that mountain myself, but a) my motivation is a lot less than it was when I was 35.. or 25... or 15. I'm about eight times as grumpy about "modern" programming languages as you are about realism things, so it would be an angry mix of C and C99, and c) I have zero graphics-artist skill. I can't even operate blender - to make models for my own game, I typed vertices into textfiles, and then later wrote a converter that rips the models out of the original homeworld to use as placeholders haha. The engine supports texturing, but I have no practical background in that, so really only special effects have any applied, plus one tiny ship that has an MS-paint access hatch on one side heh. Oh and D) using my naming conventions, that would be something like "Space Explorer" or somesuch, adding to the glut of "SE"-named space games.

Of course if I did do it, planets would be loaded from external, user-editable data files.. in double precision (so RSS would just be a different planets.cfg file). In fact, if I went down the GCC path (I normally despise GCC, but it's always been the lesser of three evils), I'd have access to extended precision (long doubles).

You have a point. I suppose all I'm saying is that I trust my modders now and am willing to be patient because I don't expect much more from Squad.

You have a point too of course - modders generally carry the day. The modding API or lack thereof is rather disturbing to me.