Support your mod developers!

[TinyPirate]

The recent kerfuffle over the Skyrim's paid mods got me to thinking about how amazing the Kerbal modding scene is, and how lucky us players are in having such generous volunteer developers. I know that I couldn't live without many of the mods that some of the mod makers have been working on and supporting for years. And so I've made an open letter asking us all to remember developers this Release Season and to perhaps join me in finding one or two with a donate button and chucking $5 their way.

As a YouTube content creator I'm even more conscious of the fact that I actually make (very tiny) amounts of money off the efforts of mod makers. Sure, making videos takes effort, but it doesn't take weeks like 90% of the mods do, and so I feel a touch guilty that I'm earning a couple of bucks off the work of these guys and girls. That's why I'm also pledging to donate a chunk of my channel profits from Kerbal mods videos to mod makers at each channel anniversary.

I'd love to see some people add #donationcountdown to their excitement over #kerbalcountdown. Will you join me?

[csebal]

I love the KSP modding community and have the utmost respect towards those modders who not only put tons of hours into making the game better, but also share their creations with the world. I can also understand, how some might feel that they deserve some sort of compensation for their effort, after all.. why should someone benefit from the labors of their work for free? I do not necessarily agree, but I can understand.

What I do not like, nor support, is 3rd parties pushing, nudging communities towards a paid model, just so they can skim their 15-20% off all the sales, because that is about the only reason Steam is pushing for the whole workshop thing. A freaky disgusting way of monetizing off of other people's work.

With that said, I will likely never pay for any but the most serious of mods and frankly speaking, KSP has maybe a handful out of the hundreds that I would even consider paying for. Main reasons:

- Quality, which I do not get to judge as long as I get it for free, but will look at with a critical eye the moment someone asks money for it

- Necessity, lots of stuff I use I do because I can, not necessarily because I need it

- Longevity, games are made by companies and even then the likelihood of them not getting supported on the long run is quite high. Mods are made by enthusiastic individuals, who can get a new fancy the next week and leave their project in the state it is, not updating it any more. This is especially critical with a game that is changing so much as KSP does.

- Principles, because the moment I start giving out money for something someone did for himself, either because he wanted to see if he could or because he wanted that feature himself (as those two are the most common modding drivers), I turn into a charity and I'm definitely not the red cross.

At the end of the day though, it all comes down to how much I want something vs the asking price. I will buy it, if I cannot acquire it cheaper, but I will think twice on how much I need it before I do.

That and boo steam for even trying. I hope the whole idea crashes and burns, because its bad and evil on many many levels and it brings toxicity into otherwise awesome communities just by its existence.

Edited April 26, 2015 by csebal

[Yukon0009]

Mod devs should make the decision to wheter to make people pay or not, if the chance ever arises.

[AlphaAsh]

- Quality, which I do not get to judge as long as I get it for free, but will look at with a critical eye the moment someone asks money for it

Yes you do. The freedom to judge quality and decide whether you want something or not on that basis is not restricted by whether said something is free. And I would fully expect a critical examination of any product I was selling. Including a mod.

Principles, because the moment I start giving out money for something someone did for himself, either because he wanted to see if he could or because he wanted that feature himself (as those two are the most common modding drivers), I turn into a charity and I'm definitely not the red cross.

Wow. Just wow. S'ok for you to benefit from charity though, right?

Mod devs should make the decision to wheter to make people pay or not, if the chance ever arises.

Yes they should. It's a stain on the gaming industry that EULAs have been preventing this for as long as they have. Thanks to that, consumers sense of entitlement has reached a point where a modder is at risk of being burnt at the stake for even considering charging for the work they do.

Edited April 26, 2015 by AlphaAsh

[Fengist]

That and boo steam for even trying. I hope the whole idea crashes and burns, because its bad and evil on many many levels and it brings toxicity into otherwise awesome communities just by its existence.

I can't boo them for trying, but I can boo Bethesda and Valve for the way they're doing it. Here's a recent 'review' of this process on Forbes.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/04/24/valves-paid-skyrim-mods-are-a-legal-ethical-and-creative-disaster/

And here's the same author offering very viable solutions to the problems it's facing:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertcoin/2015/04/25/is-there-a-way-to-make-a-paid-skyrim-mod-store-work-for-everyone/

Skyrim is getting old. The only thing keeping it alive is the mod community. KSP and Squad are going to face this same exact challenge. The question is, whether Squad finds a solution to the paid mod question or whether they do what most game companies do, stop development entirely, let it die and move on to something else.

(And you'll note that Forbes has NO problem bombarding you with their own attempt to make money off the story these mods create.)

Edited April 26, 2015 by Fengist

[nightingale]

What I find amazing is when I see the attitude that most people can pay $20 for KSP, play it for hundreds or thousands of hours and then cry foul when asked to pay $5 for additional content (whether that be DLC or mods).

And then many of us (myself included) won't bat an eye at paying $5 for a latte.... Every day.

[AlphaAsh]

What I find amazing is when I see the attitude that most people can pay $20 for KSP, play it for hundreds or thousands of hours and then cry foul when asked to pay $5 for additional content (whether that be DLC or mods).

And then many of us (myself included) won't bat an eye at paying $5 for a latte.... Every day.

This. If there's anything that I find more demoralising it is being told that what I do isn't even worth the price of a cup of coffee. And then I get death threats for disagreeing (not in this community, I should clarify).

[Fengist]

What I find amazing is when I see the attitude that most people can pay $20 for KSP, play it for hundreds or thousands of hours and then cry foul when asked to pay $5 for additional content (whether that be DLC or mods).

And then many of us (myself included) won't bat an eye at paying $5 for a latte.... Every day.

LOL. I couldn't have summed it up better.

[csebal]

...

There is a very distinct difference between criticizing something and judging something. Yes I have my opinion of every mod I play. I sometimes even make suggestions on how (I think) they could be improved. I do not judge them however. Why? Because they are:

- labors of love and love is crazy

- provided for free and you should never look a gift horse in the mouth

- often created by enthusiastic, aspiring new developers - juniors by my scale - and as such prone to make mistakes

PRODUCTS however, and product is everything you try to sell for cash in my book, I do judge and I do judge harshly. The moment you ask money for something, you enter the big league where the usual excuses do not fly and the expectations are a lot higher.

The charity analogy was quite weak, I agree, however your bashing of it was even more so. If you think using mods (or free software) is like relying on charity, then you do not understand why some of those people doing mods are doing what they do. Free software (let alone mods) is free not because people do not think you could afford it. Comparing free software to charity is like comparing apples to pumpkins. Roughly the same shape, but nothing else in common.

I strongly suggest you read this: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/shouldbefree.html

While I do not entirely agree with the lets all go open source philosophy, I can stand behind it when it suits my purpose Seriously though, they got some valid points.

[TinyPirate]

While free is all well and good it is obvious that the community, mod makers, youtubers and the developers exist in a symbiotic relationship. One can't exist without the other, and there goes with that the basic principles of reciprocity and recognition.

If no modders were ever thanked or passed a donation the mod community would not be as strong. If the developers didn't support mod makers, the mod community wouldn't be as strong. If all mods were pay walled, the mod community wouldn't be as strong.

I think donations towards mod makers whose content we love is the best way to show our appreciation and support for what they do. And it's a lot better than the alternatives!

Mod makers are a lot like buskers. They don't EXPECT piles of money, and they don't mind people just trying their content, but they certainly wouldn't keep going if no one said "thanks" or ever flipped them a coin.

[nightingale]

There is a very distinct difference between criticizing something and judging something. Yes I have my opinion of every mod I play. I sometimes even make suggestions on how (I think) they could be improved. I do not judge them however. Why? Because they are:

- labors of love and love is crazy

- provided for free and you should never look a gift horse in the mouth

- often created by enthusiastic, aspiring new developers - juniors by my scale - and as such prone to make mistakes

PRODUCTS however, and product is everything you try to sell for cash in my book, I do judge and I do judge harshly. The moment you ask money for something, you enter the big league where the usual excuses do not fly and the expectations are a lot higher.

The charity analogy was quite weak, I agree, however your bashing of it was even more so. If you think using mods (or free software) is like relying on charity, then you do not understand why some of those people doing mods are doing what they do. Free software (let alone mods) is free not because people do not think you could afford it. Comparing free software to charity is like comparing apples to pumpkins. Roughly the same shape, but nothing else in common.

I strongly suggest you read this: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/shouldbefree.html

While I do not entirely agree with the lets all go open source philosophy, I can stand behind it when it suits my purpose Seriously though, they got some valid points.

What does open source have to do with the price of butter? In a conversation about compensation (see free as in beer) for people putting in hard work of their own volition, you're bringing up free software (see free as in freedom).

Also, I find your characterization of modders offensive. I stand by my mods the same way I would stand by a product I'm selling, so feel free to drop by any of my threads and judge. You'll find that I gladly accept well though out criticism and suggestions.

Now, rather than continuing to derail this thread (feel free to respond if you would like the last word), I will applaud TinyPirate for his message. I was a player long before I was a modder, so I'm going to go find the donation buttons on a few of my favourite mods and make a well deserved contribution to show that hard work is appreciated. I will also send a message stating that my contribution is free of obligation, let or lien - even if they were to close up shop tomorrow, the contribution to them is well deserved, in my opinion.

[TinyPirate]

Yay, nightingale! That's the spirit! Now, if only I can get this idea more attention. My reddit post is languishing towards the bottom of the subreddit, haha.

http://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/33yf7v/join_me_in_supporting_our_mod_makers_during/

[Crzyrndm]

As a YouTube content creator I'm even more conscious of the fact that I actually make (very tiny) amounts of money off the efforts of mod makers. Sure, making videos takes effort, but it doesn't take weeks like 90% of the mods do, and so I feel a touch guilty that I'm earning a couple of bucks off the work of these guys and girls. That's why I'm also pledging to donate a chunk of my channel profits from Kerbal mods videos to mod makers at each channel anniversary.

Nice to see some positive discussion/action (or attempt at it atleast...) about the issues Valve has so uh, forcibly(?), brought to light.

I love the KSP modding community and have the utmost respect towards those modders who not only put tons of hours into making the game better, but also share their creations with the world. I can also understand, how some might feel that they deserve some sort of compensation for their effort, after all.. why should someone benefit from the labors of their work for free? I do not necessarily agree, but I can understand.

And this is an example of the other side of the coin. Ignoring Valve and the complete mess they've made of this, it's still exposing the fact that a huge portion of mod users feel that compensation for (often highly skilled and hard working) unofficial content creators is somehow taboo.

What I find amazing is when I see the attitude that most people can pay $20 for KSP, play it for hundreds or thousands of hours and then cry foul when asked to pay $5 for additional content (whether that be DLC or mods).

And then many of us (myself included) won't bat an eye at paying $5 for a latte.... Every day.

QFT

Also, I find your characterization of modders offensive. I stand by my mods the same way I would stand by a product I'm selling, so feel free to drop by any of my threads and judge. You'll find that I gladly accept well though out criticism and suggestions.

^^

I make it a point to fix critical issues in hours (that is issues that prevent the mod working, changes to behaviour to improve usability may take a bit longer just by the nature of what needs doing). I plan on having all of the plugins I develop (or in the case of B9 PWings, maintain) made KSP 1.0 compatible on day 1. They may be small for the most part, but I would be making the commitment to update ASAP no matter how complex they were.

As for criticism, I appreciate all of it, and almost always reply to it. I may not always agree with suggestions, but I will atleast try and explain my view on w/e the issue is

I will stand by what I make, whether I sell it or not.

I will applaud TinyPirate for his message. I was a player long before I was a modder, so I'm going to go find the donation buttons on a few of my favourite mods and make a well deserved contribution to show that hard work is appreciated. I will also send a message stating that my contribution is free of obligation, let or lien - even if they were to close up shop tomorrow, the contribution to them is well deserved, in my opinion.

Seconded. I've certainly enjoyed the work of a others in my time.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Crzyrndm

[sumghai]

The best way to support add-on authors are:

- Give them reputation points whenever they post something (new release, developmental notes)

- Leave a nice comment in their project threads

- Make a donation, if they have provided a means to do so

- Feature their work in your screenshots / videos

- Provide good, comprehensive bug reports

- Most important of all, be nice to them: at the end of the day, add-on authors devote their limited spare to to making add-ons because of their love of the game, so ask them nicely for help, and don't do anything contrary to their wishes (e.g. putting their stuff in modpacks, making 64-bit versions of their plugins)

[Starwhip]

What I find amazing is when I see the attitude that most people can pay $20 for KSP, play it for hundreds or thousands of hours and then cry foul when asked to pay $5 for additional content (whether that be DLC or mods).

And then many of us (myself included) won't bat an eye at paying $5 for a latte.... Every day.

My god, that is very true.

[TinyPirate]

Well, there will always be that element. I just hope to remind people to listen to their better angel this week and to celebrate the modders and the developers as 1.0 is released.

[TinyPirate]

I've donated to Roverdude and PJF via their Patreon accounts for their work. I hope other people have jumped in and put a buck or two in some tip jars!

[Broax]

Instead of mod purchase I would 100% support a mod donation system... Even if it meant Squad (and even Valve) would get a (small(er)) cut...

Some of KSP's mods are very high quality and expand the game in unimaginable ways... So I think its more then fair if said modders receive some compensation for their hardwork and dedication.

It's not charity... Its a compensation. Charity is giving something for nothing only to help... I hardly think that some (many) mods (I delibaretly dont want to enumerate examples) are "nothing"... So for that reason I think its only fair to reward that work... Even if its a work of love...

That being said please appologize for what I expexct to be a lot of spell errors. English isn't my native language and I don't have english spell dictionary installed on my phone...

[Dr. Jet]

The best support for modder is an appropriate feedback.

I spare part of my time to develop mod, you spare a bit of your time to test it and comment, thus helping me to make it better. No money can substitute a bright fresh idea or timely bug report.

That's my PoV on subject.

[TinyPirate]

I think we can offer all kinds of helpful support, beer money through to bug reports

I would love it if Steam offered a "round up your purchase" option with the tens of cents involved being automatically spread out among the current mod makers you use. It wouldn't be perfect but it would perhaps difuse the direct pay-for-mods issues we have seen humming along.

Or perhaps better ways to be reminded of a mod maker's Patreon or donation button.

[GeneCash]

So how does one donate to a modder? For example, MechJeb makes KSP playable for me, and he's busting ass to get it working for 1.0. I feel it's worth at least 1/2 the asking price of KSP. How would I toss $20 his way?

I don't do Paypal because they've screwed over too many of my friends.

[TinyPirate]

Not sure on mechjeb. I would go and ask in the mechjeb thread in the Add-Ons forum!