[1.12.x] Cryogenic Engines: Liquid Hydrogen and Methane Rockets! (August 13, 2024)

[cipherpunks]

Sorry if I missed it, but what are the real world analogues to each engine respectively?

[Nertea]

If you downloaded it, it's in the cfg file header for each engine.

[cipherpunks]

Shame on me. Even doing MM patches (I tend to copy from PART to title, and edit from there) I somehow overlooked that. Sorry. And thank You.

[cipherpunks]

Aha, so that's newest RL-10B-2 iteration, good, I'll re-check stats of "my" FASA one to be like "previous" RL-10A-4, w/o extendable nozzle, then.

Speaking of which...

I often build my upper stages with conical bottoms, like, say, the bottom of S-IVB. Or like Delta IV 2nd stage. Having support ring on the engine makes this design impossible. Can You please add another Interstellar Mesh Switch to Your - I must say - beautiful models, only with support ring turned off? (Your current shroud on RL-0120 analogue does indeed look good, much better overall than BobCat model, but if it will be possible to build Ariane--V-like rocket with single Yucatan pushing the bottoms of conical tank - that'd be even better).

Also, any chances of having 90kN Vinci analogue? Would be the same diameter as Chelyabinsk, 2 times heavier, slightly more Isp, maybe one tech level up I guess...

Heh, seeing J-2T would be great too, but, knowing Your "after it flies IRL" policy this is doubtfull I guess :-) Nevertheless, it can enable us to build shorter upper stages where height matters.

Edited June 11, 2015 by cipherpunks
add img

[Hoddd9000]

The extra that changes the engines to run on stock LiquidFuel instead of LH2 does not affect the largest engine (the one with the conical shroud thing), so it still runs on Liquid Hydrogen . Which means that I have to have Interstellar FuelSwitch installed for the mod to load and for the engine to work.

Please fix this problem as Interstellar FuelSwitch messes up the tanks for me.

[cipherpunks]

This is weird as I clearly see @PART[cryoengine-375-2] declared in that "extra" .cfg; are You absolutely sure You have the latest version?

One thing to try is You can add :FINAL to that line, e.g.:

@PART[cryoengine-375-2]:FINAL

Any decent text editor will do.

- - - Updated - - -

seeing J-2T would be great too

btw they also studied J-2T-400 engines in those same times when they were working on F-1A; only those engines newer flown AFAIK.

[loppnessmonsta]

Haven't had a chance to really play much- Can liquid hydrogen be mined/refined for?

[pacbard]

Haven't had a chance to really play much- Can liquid hydrogen be mined/refined for?

Did you try this patch? It adds liquid hydrogen to the stock ISRU.

[Slightlylyons]

I'm hoping someone can help me some trouble with this mod. I built a Centaur-ish stage with two of the small upper stage cryo engines. Mechjeb and Engineer say I should have a TWR of 1.60 (I offloaded a lot of fuel to test it, loaded as an upper stage it should be around 0.50) I fire it up, the engines extend and fire, and then it falls to the launchpad. So.... why am I not getting thrust? Ideas?

[pacbard]

I'm hoping someone can help me some trouble with this mod. I built a Centaur-ish stage with two of the small upper stage cryo engines. Mechjeb and Engineer say I should have a TWR of 1.60 (I offloaded a lot of fuel to test it, loaded as an upper stage it should be around 0.50) I fire it up, the engines extend and fire, and then it falls to the launchpad. So.... why am I not getting thrust? Ideas?

Are you using the atmospheric TWR reading from KER? I think that if you use the extended window in the VAB you will be able to switch to atmospheric readings. The upper stage engines have really a really low atmospheric ISP. The 1.60 is probably for their vacuum performance.

[Slightlylyons]

Are you using the atmospheric TWR reading from KER? I think that if you use the extended window in the VAB you will be able to switch to atmospheric readings. The upper stage engines have really a really low atmospheric ISP. The 1.60 is probably for their vacuum performance.

Yeah... thats it, it's totally my bad. I hacked gravity and it is producing thrust. It's just me being dumb and not used to 1.x yet.

[Drakenex]

Hi Nertea, first of all congratulations for your modeling and texturing skills, I'm big fan of your style! far superior to other "stock-alike" mods out there!

Do you know why the Ct10 'Chelyabinsk' engine is not extending itself when staging? It doesn't extend and therefore works until I manually activate it, either with space bar or mechjeb, I get a "engine can't work while stowed" warning or something like that.

Thanks in advance!

[Nertea]

Hi Nertea, first of all congratulations for your modeling and texturing skills, I'm big fan of your style! far superior to other "stock-alike" mods out there!

Do you know why the Ct10 'Chelyabinsk' engine is not extending itself when staging? It doesn't extend and therefore works until I manually activate it, either with space bar or mechjeb, I get a "engine can't work while stowed" warning or something like that.

Thanks in advance!

Thanks! I didn't see this problem in testing, you should check to make sure the BDAnimationModules dll exists in your directory. Also, it isn't in a fairing/cargo bay at all, is it?

Aha, so that's newest RL-10B-2 iteration, good, I'll re-check stats of "my" FASA one to be like "previous" RL-10A-4, w/o extendable nozzle, then.

Speaking of which...

I often build my upper stages with conical bottoms, like, say, the bottom of S-IVB. Or like Delta IV 2nd stage. Having support ring on the engine makes this design impossible. Can You please add another Interstellar Mesh Switch to Your - I must say - beautiful models, only with support ring turned off? (Your current shroud on RL-0120 analogue does indeed look good, much better overall than BobCat model, but if it will be possible to build Ariane--V-like rocket with single Yucatan pushing the bottoms of conical tank - that'd be even better).

Also, any chances of having 90kN Vinci analogue? Would be the same diameter as Chelyabinsk, 2 times heavier, slightly more Isp, maybe one tech level up I guess...

Heh, seeing J-2T would be great too, but, knowing Your "after it flies IRL" policy this is doubtfull I guess :-) Nevertheless, it can enable us to build shorter upper stages where height matters.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/19/Annular-Aerospike.jpg

http://i.piccy.info/i9/0862894c911663452495e38da5a5a308/1434057454/3486/919079/satupeng.gif

Well, note the OP - mentions that if you don't like support structures or rings, there will be a RO-type version eventually.

And... I don't really like the look of aerospikes . So probably no on that last one. Vinci was a candidate, but I'm not really sold on expanding this pack at the moment. I consider my original set of plans for it to be pretty much done! 6 engines, 2 for each category. It would be a decent candidate though so I will keep it in mind if I ever get bored.

By the way, build time for one of these engines is typically ~3 hours modeling, 2 hours unwrapping, 3 hours texturing, so I can't really just commit to a new part easily. Currently that's about a week of my available modding time.

[Drakenex]

Thanks! I didn't see this problem in testing, you should check to make sure the BDAnimationModules dll exists in your directory. Also, it isn't in a fairing/cargo bay at all, is it?

Yup that plugin is loaded, but yes, it's inside a fairing (it's my Centaur Upper Stage engine), may be is matter of staging? first open the fairing and decoupling it and then starting the engine, I'll try!

Thanks a lot for the quick response!

Edit: yup, staging after fairing jetison fixed it, thanks a lot again!

Edited June 15, 2015 by Drakenex
Update

[cipherpunks]

I don't really like the look of aerospikes

Well, for me there's nothing to dislike about this one:

http://www.gizmag.com/firefly-alpha-aerospike-launch-vehicle/32892/pictures#5

It is even steerable! See:

By the way, build time for one of these engines is typically ~3 hours modeling, 2 hours unwrapping, 3 hours texturing

I wish I knew how to export from Blender to Unity and what is unwrapping... Someone has to make a short video course about modelling for KSP.

- - - Updated - - -

H It doesn't extend and therefore works until I manually activate it, either with space bar or mechjeb, I get a "engine can't work while stowed" warning or something like that

This one bites me hard. It necessitates manual interaction, but holestly I prefer semi-automatic launchers made with SmartParts (no kOS for me yet). I have not find a solution to this problem yet, but I have an idea - place another fuel sensor, which will activate timer through AG which will in turn activate thy engine.

[CriticalChewie]

Hello,

As Nertea made a patch for NearFuture Propulsion to generate LH2 with the ISRU, I thought of making a variant that generates LH2+Ox in the correct ratios for the Cryo engines, which I'm putting here in case anyone finds it useful. This adds a new mode to the ISRU, and like the stock modes, total mass is conserved through the conversion. To make use of it, save the following in a .cfg file anywhere in your GameData folder

@PART[ISRU]
{
    MODULE
    {
        name = ModuleResourceConverter
        ConverterName = LH2+Ox
        StartActionName = Start ISRU [LH2+Ox]
        StopActionName = Stop ISRU [LH2+Ox]     
        AutoShutdown = false
        GeneratesHeat = false
        UseSpecialistBonus = true
        SpecialistEfficiencyFactor = 0.2
        SpecialistBonusBase = 0.05
        Specialty = Engineer
        EfficiencyBonus = 1



         INPUT_RESOURCE
         {
            ResourceName = Ore
            Ratio = 0.5
            FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
         }
         INPUT_RESOURCE
         {
            ResourceName = ElectricCharge
            Ratio = 50
         }
         OUTPUT_RESOURCE
         {
            ResourceName = LqdHydrogen
            Ratio = 8.7589
            DumpExcess = false
            FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
         }
         OUTPUT_RESOURCE
         {
            ResourceName = Oxidizer
            Ratio = 0.87589
            DumpExcess = false
            FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
         }

    }
}

[Nertea]

Well, for me there's nothing to dislike about this one:

http://images.gizmag.com/gallery_lrg/firefly-alpha-4.png

http://www.gizmag.com/firefly-alpha-aerospike-launch-vehicle/32892/pictures#5

It is even steerable! See:

http://images.gizmag.com/gallery_lrg/firefly-alpha-3.png

I wish I knew how to export from Blender to Unity and what is unwrapping... Someone has to make a short video course about modelling for KSP.

- - - Updated - - -

This one bites me hard. It necessitates manual interaction, but holestly I prefer semi-automatic launchers made with SmartParts (no kOS for me yet). I have not find a solution to this problem yet, but I have an idea - place another fuel sensor, which will activate timer through AG which will in turn activate thy engine.

Haha, just a matter of preference I guess. The only place you might see aerospike engines from my stuff (soonish) is an upcoming 2.5m rapier thing, but that's part of MkIV and won't see the light for a bit.

Yup that plugin is loaded, but yes, it's inside a fairing (it's my Centaur Upper Stage engine), may be is matter of staging? first open the fairing and decoupling it and then starting the engine, I'll try!

http://i.imgur.com/98g6kvW.jpg

Thanks a lot for the quick response!

Edit: yup, staging after fairing jetison fixed it, thanks a lot again!

Glad to help!

Hello,

As Nertea made a patch for NearFuture Propulsion to generate LH2 with the ISRU, I thought of making a variant that generates LH2+Ox in the correct ratios for the Cryo engines, which I'm putting here in case anyone finds it useful. This adds a new mode to the ISRU, and like the stock modes, total mass is conserved through the conversion. To make use of it, save the following in a .cfg file anywhere in your GameData folder

Thanks, I'll include something like this next version.

[Zapjohnny]

Is there any way to make the fuel switch compatible with Firespitter for all?

[Hoddd9000]

This is weird as I clearly see @PART[cryoengine-375-2] declared in that "extra" .cfg; are You absolutely sure You have the latest version?

One thing to try is You can add :FINAL to that line, e.g.:

@PART[cryoengine-375-2]:FINAL

Any decent text editor will do.

- - - Updated - - -

btw they also studied J-2T-400 engines in those same times when they were working on F-1A; only those engines newer flown AFAIK.

I will try that as soon as I can install the mod again, thanks in advance

EDIT: It didn't work, I may just have to delete that engine until Nertea fixes the bug, or if its my install of KSP, until it unintentionally gets fixed in an update

Edited June 17, 2015 by Hoddd9000

[CriticalChewie]

Thanks, I'll include something like this next version.

Ha, it had somehow escaped me that you were the author of Cryo Engines as well as NF... Anyway, thanks for looking at this ISRU stuff

[Hoddd9000]

Any chance of the LF option being turned into a complete different dowload without having to install any configs (Like stock engines, without any extra files like FuelSwitch or Comunity Texture Pack) INSERT QUESTION MARK HERE MY KEYBOARD HAS F~CKED UP AGAIN:mad:

What I mean is to make a version where the engines are set to actually use LiquidFuel in the .cfg instead of in the extra file. This would make it much easier for me and others as it seems to slightly battle some other mods I have installed.

Sorry for being annoying

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

Hoddd You could always re-write the configs on your end, there's only six engines. All the information you need is in the patch, just copy in the new atmosphere curve, rename the propellants and sub in the new ratios.

This adds a new mode to the ISRU, and like the stock modes, total mass is conserved through the conversion.

How did you get your numbers? I posted a .cfg that does the same thing here a while ago, but mine only accounts for proportion, not mass, and it bugs me. What would it look like for straight Hydrogen?

Edited June 17, 2015 by Starbuckminsterfullerton

[mikegarrison]

Hoddd You could always re-write the configs on your end, there's only six engines. All the information you need is in the patch, just copy in the new atmosphere curve, rename the propellants and sub in the new ratios.

How did you get your numbers? I posted a .cfg that does the same thing here a while ago, but mine only accounts for proportion, not mass, and it bugs me. What would it look like for straight Hydrogen?

The system seems a little strange.

Look at the stock part. For some reason, the input flow is half of the output flow. So when it says 0.5 ore turns into 0.45/0.55 LF/Ox, it really means 1 unit of ore turns into 1 unit of LF/Ox mix. When it is doing single outputs (LF, or monoprop, or oxidizer) the input ore is only half of the output.

Strangely, this means that Ore can turn into ANYTHING. It can all turn into LF, or it can all turn into Oxidizer, or it can all turn into monoprop, or it can turn into any mix of those, and mass is completely conserved. Obviously the ISRU is powered by electrical charge and dark magic.

So if mass is still being conserved, then 1 unit of ore should turn into 1 unit of oxidizer or 1 unit of LH/OX mix (by mass). So you need to know the ratio of density between LH and OX, and then the rest is just algebra.

[Hoddd9000]

Hoddd You could always re-write the configs on your end, there's only six engines. All the information you need is in the patch, just copy in the new atmosphere curve, rename the propellants and sub in the new ratios.

How did you get your numbers? I posted a .cfg that does the same thing here a while ago, but mine only accounts for proportion, not mass, and it bugs me. What would it look like for straight Hydrogen?

My problem is that Interstellar Fuel Switch breaks the tanks in the game BUT KSP also breaks if this (Cryoengines) mod is installed and not IFS. If I can run the game without IFS, everything will work fine. I will try that, thank you.

EDIT: FOUND A THING!!!!! If I delete Patches/CroenginesFuelTankSwitcher (which seems to be what forces the game to use IFS as mentioned above) and Interstellar Fuel Switch, I can probably run the game without IFS.

Also, what would happen if I put the LFO .cfg in the CryoEngines/Patches folder instead of in its own GameData file (excuse my stupidity if that's where it was supposed to go in the first place)? So much testing to be done!

EDIT2: YEEEEEEEEESSSS!!! It worked! I can now enjoy the beauty of these amazing engines

Edited June 18, 2015 by Hoddd9000

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

For some reason, the input flow is half of the output flow. So when it says 0.5 ore turns into 0.45/0.55 LF/Ox, it really means 1 unit of ore turns into 1 unit of LF/Ox mix. When it is doing single outputs (LF, or monoprop, or oxidizer) the input ore is only half of the output.

So if mass is still being conserved, then 1 unit of ore should turn into 1 unit of oxidizer or 1 unit of LH/OX mix (by mass). So you need to know the ratio of density between LH and OX, and then the rest is just algebra.

I assumed the input/output difference was accounted for in the ore resource def; I never actually checked.

That's about what I did for my ratios though, I saw that the outputs added up to 1 unit, and adjusted for the hydrolox ratios. I added .1 so the ratio would be exact, thinking if there are already some mass shenanigans going on a little extra for precision's sake wouldn't hurt. Definitely room for improvement...