Woman in Space?

[Pawelk198604]

I'm Guy but i'm impressed, the latest KSP include female kerbal Valentina Kerman who is in turn homage Valentina Tereshkova.

I wonder why no other woman flow in space for 19 years, and why American not recruited their own female Kerbo.. i mean astronauts

[hugix]

America used test pilots as astronauts, you could only be a Mercury / Gemini / Apollo astronaut if you were a test pilot (with the exception of Harrison Schmitt, but that's another story). Back in the days not a whole lot of women, if any where high ranking test pilots.

[Kibble]

To this day the only female fighter aces in history have all been from the Soviet Union.

[Albert VDS]

They had an idea to have women in space during the mercury program, but they didn't go through with it due to bad publicity if a rocket killed one of them.

I guess they were more OK with putting a man in danger.

[xenomorph555]

On the Soviet side there was meant to be more female flights after Valentina, the Vostok program was going to be much larger and expansive then the 6 mission program originally (and this included more female flights) however with Kenned'ys challenge there was a push to skip further Vostok flights to Soyuz to get to the moon.

When the Voskhod program was created there was also going to be female flights (eva's/long duration duo missions) however Voskhod got axed due to a few reasons.

Finally Soyuz was meant to have female flights (same objectives as Voskhod) however Korolov (who supported female flights because he wanted cosmonauts to have children and colonise space eventually ) died, his subsequent replacements had less patience for managing both the male and female corps, as well as a 100 other moon related things, so those female missions were cancelled.

[AngelLestat]

The only thing I want, that the first time we visit another planet, I hope to find at least one woman in the team..

We our bound, and we need to accomplish the great advances together.

[crazyewok]

Cant speak for Russia but for the west backward social convention of the time.

Remember the 60's people social views may have been changing but they were still very backwards, to many women should not have even been in work. Putting a woman in space would have been as controversial as putting someone of a different race into space back then.

Because of the above very few women would have been qualified at that time anyway to be placed in space program as someone mentioned very few if any women were test pilots in the 60's.

Luckily in 2015 we have got past such petty social stigmas......mostly.....

Edited May 1, 2015 by crazyewok

[Redjoker]

America has plenty of female astronauts: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_female_astronauts I count 43. And the 19 year gap is only that there has been no female cosmonauts for 19 years.

[tater]

All early US astronauts were pilots (first just military, then test pilots), which ruled out women. The CCCP did not require pilots (Valentina was an experienced sky diver). The issue of plumbing is also (still) non-trivial. I spent some time talking to a female shuttle astronaut in the late 80s, and she said bathroom related plumbing was still less than ideal. On EVA they are basically stuck with diapers vs males who can use condom-catheters which is far more comfortable. Think of a long Apollo flight even with just 2 other guys. The whole waste issue is pretty unglamorous

[Superluminaut]

Before the 1970s USA was insanely sexist. Things have improved somewhat.

[Camacha]

America used test pilots as astronauts, you could only be a Mercury / Gemini / Apollo astronaut if you were a test pilot (with the exception of Harrison Schmitt, but that's another story). Back in the days not a whole lot of women, if any where high ranking test pilots.

An unofficial program has been launched to test women to the same degree men were. Some got pretty far, right up to the point where the navy would no longer cooperate because of it not being an official program and/or request from NASA. The involved organisations and agencies obviously were not ready for female astronauts, even though the women of the time most probably were.

NASA's (or the whole government's, probably) gender policies were not very modern in the 60's, to say the least.

Before the 1970s USA was insanely sexist. Things have improved somewhat.

That would be another (fairly accurate) way of putting it.

The whole waste issue is pretty unglamorous

I cannot image sitting next to a guy pooping in a bag would be okay, while a girl doing the same would not be. If my memory serves me correctly, the Gemini guys even practised stuffing used toilet paper behind their seats before the flights. I have trouble believing introducing a women would make things much nastier than that.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Camacha

[xenomorph555]

I have trouble believing introducing a women would make things much nastier than that.

Oh it can get much worse, try adding blood to the urine/feces mix...

Edited May 2, 2015 by xenomorph555

[Motokid600]

Lmao. There is always that elephant in the room.

[Brethern]

All early US astronauts were pilots (first just military, then test pilots), which ruled out women. The CCCP did not require pilots (Valentina was an experienced sky diver). The issue of plumbing is also (still) non-trivial. I spent some time talking to a female shuttle astronaut in the late 80s, and she said bathroom related plumbing was still less than ideal. On EVA they are basically stuck with diapers vs males who can use condom-catheters which is far more comfortable. Think of a long Apollo flight even with just 2 other guys. The whole waste issue is pretty unglamorous

Not to mention they're also risking bacterial infections as well without proper lavatory facilities. What the space program was doing in the 60's was hard enough as it was, even then conditions weren't ideal. Adding in a known unknown factor would be unwise.

[Camacha]

Oh it can get much worse, try adding blood to the urine/feces mix...

The fact that you call that much worse says a lot about you, but not so much about women in space Like I said, if you are fine with guys pooping in a bag and pushing used papers behind their seats, a bleeding woman is something that can easily be dealt with. Though that does not just happen at random, so simple planning might be a proper solution too.

On EVA they are basically stuck with diapers vs males who can use condom-catheters which is far more comfortable.

Female catheters are a thing, and I am pretty sure were back then. Those are probably not comfortable, but like you said, the whole waste issue is pretty unglamorous and uncomfortable whichever way you look at it.

Lmao. There is always that elephant in the room.

There is little denying that the elephant in the room when it comes to women in space is that NASA was hardly an emancipated stronghold in the 60s. It was not going to happen, regardless of the circumstances. The same goes for pretty much all other government agencies and respected institutions.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Camacha

[jwenting]

The only thing I want, that the first time we visit another planet, I hope to find at least one woman in the team..

We our bound, and we need to accomplish the great advances together.

nonsense. People should be selected based on their technical qualifications (and for long duration missions on their mutual compatibility, you don't want them to get into rows and fights all the time), NOT on ..., sexual preference, skin colour, religious affiliation, or any of the other politically correct criteria that trump actual skill based selection these days.

Now, if it's a colonisation mission, you want and need women of course. In fact you will want more women than men probably to grow your colony quicker (one man can breed with multiple women during each cycle after all). But in that scenario having ovaries and wombs IS a technical qualification, cold and calculating as it may sound.

It may well be that we find out that husband/wife teams are a good way to have stable crews on long distance missions (though with the frequent arguments and fights in marriages, is that really likely?), but randomg men and women thrown together? We can just wait for the accusations of sexual improprieties to make the news.

Ever seen (or seen headlines about) "Big Brother" like TV shows? Do we really want that on our mission to Mars?

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Not to mention they're also risking bacterial infections as well without proper lavatory facilities. What the space program was doing in the 60's was hard enough as it was, even then conditions weren't ideal. Adding in a known unknown factor would be unwise.

And what with the "sensibilities" of the time, and even now, they'd require some sort of shielding between the crew members so the female astronauts could do their thing in private. Adding more complexity, size, and weight...

Rather hard to fit a boudoir in a Gemini capsule

[Camacha]

Now, if it's a colonisation mission, you want and need women of course. In fact you will want more women than men probably to grow your colony quicker (one man can breed with multiple women during each cycle after all).

Insemination by a couple of men only would be a terrible idea, genetically speaking. It would probably make more sense to take a sperm bank and more women, though having multiple pregnancies thrown together in a tin can is a fairly intense and potentially problematic set-up too, even if just for medical reasons.

but randomg men and women thrown together? We can just wait for the accusations of sexual improprieties to make the news.

You do not see that happening on the ISS, right? As long as we are dealing with highly trained professionals, the chances of this going awfully wrong are limited (but not zero). We can be fairly sure juice things have happened in space before, but they have not caused problems yet. It will just probably never be officially documented.

[Fel]

In fact you will want more women than men probably to grow your colony quicker (one man can breed with multiple women during each cycle after all).

Because the only thing a woman is good for is having babies, according to your kind. Are you seriously advocating for what would effectively amount to forced conception?

Ever seen (or seen headlines about) "Big Brother" like TV shows? Do we really want that on our mission to Mars?

Get a collection of the worst people on the planet together under the same house, and you get cheap reality tv that people for some reason watch.

And what with the "sensibilities" of the time, and even now, they'd require some sort of shielding between the crew members so the female astronauts could do their thing in private. Adding more complexity, size, and weight...

Rather hard to fit a boudoir in a Gemini capsule

Yet nudists gladly invite both men and women to their beaches. "Their thing" is about maturity; if the people picked for the mission are REALLY qualified, not just people who gave money to the right person, then there is no problem.

I'll also note that periods can be controlled with hormonal therapy (or well, birth control pills); so you don't need to be scared of being around menstrual blood.

[Camacha]

so you don't need to be scared of being around menstrual blood.

Fecal matter is much more dangerous, as long as everyone has been medically screened back home. I do not know why everyone here is so scared.

[Kibble]

Friends...we're all Homo sapiens. Discriminating against people for any quality is wrong. Like ideally astronauts should bee as small and light as possible, but that's unrealistic and discriminatory. Even if the vague labels "men" and "women" truly were dimorphic between masculine physical and emotional extremes, and feminine physical and emotional extremes, the two would still bee almost exactly alike, with almost exactly ​the same requirements for survival.

[xenomorph555]

The fact that you call that much worse says a lot about you, but not so much about women in space Like I said, if you are fine with guys pooping in a bag and pushing used papers behind their seats, a bleeding woman is something that can easily be dealt with. Though that does not just happen at random, so simple planning might be a proper solution too.

I was just kidding, blood is very easy to deal with when you have tampons and other things (although I imagine dealing with used tampons to be not the best). As for bag pooping I think I'll stick to a Soyuz or Shenzhou where we have space toilets like civilised people

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Friends...we're all Homo sapiens. Discriminating against people for any quality is wrong. Like ideally astronauts should bee as small and light as possible, but that's unrealistic and discriminatory. Even if the vague labels "men" and "women" truly were dimorphic between masculine physical and emotional extremes, and feminine physical and emotional extremes, the two would still bee almost exactly alike, with almost exactly ​the same requirements for survival.

I agree, listen to this smart person.

Although personally I disagree with calling the terms men and women vague, from a biologist viewpoint.

[Brethern]

Because the only thing a woman is good for is having babies, according to your kind. Are you seriously advocating for what would effectively amount to forced conception?

Get a collection of the worst people on the planet together under the same house, and you get cheap reality tv that people for some reason watch.

Yet nudists gladly invite both men and women to their beaches. "Their thing" is about maturity; if the people picked for the mission are REALLY qualified, not just people who gave money to the right person, then there is no problem.

I'll also note that periods can be controlled with hormonal therapy (or well, birth control pills); so you don't need to be scared of being around menstrual blood.

Keep in mind that we're talking about 1960's america here, the country that was just beginning to throw off their repressed views on sexuality.

There's also the fact that the pill was a relatively new invention of the time, which as i recall even today most people are unaware that it does more than just act as a contraceptive.

They could have very easily sent to woman to walk on the moon, but the fact that most people are forgetting is that they were tech rushing. Developing proper bathroom facilities was a low priority.

[Kryten]

I'm not sure why anybody would bother trying to look for any reason beyond blatant sexism. We're talking about the same organisation that had no black astronauts until the mid-80s, it's not like they're above that kind of thing.

[Brethern]

I'm not sure why anybody would bother trying to look for any reason beyond blatant sexism. We're talking about the same organisation that had no black astronauts until the mid-80s, it's not like they're above that kind of thing.

And the sexism card is played.

[Greenfire32]

And the sexism card is played.

But he's not wrong. Back then sexism was a very real factor for things such as these. Early astronauts were culled from a list of Military test pilots and women were not allowed to perform in combat roles. The result? No female astronauts.

So while in today's world, you could say that "the sexism card" has been played, back then it would have merely been called, "the way things are."

So he's not wrong.

Now I'm not saying that sexism is totally dead (it isn't), but American society is much more understanding of women now, and that's a good thing. Last I checked there were at least...40...ish female astronauts in current active duty? Might be wrong on that number.

And just to clear my name a bit here, I have no idea how many male astronauts we have. At all. So not knowing how many female ones there are isn't the result of sexism, but rather my general ignorance to the finer workings of our space program.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Greenfire32