Extreme Hard Career

[Bandock]

I haven't experimented with extremely hard settings in 1.0.x, but I can say that is no doubt more feasible than in 0.90. One can reach the Mun without any patched conics (look at all the players who played versions before patched conics were even implemented). Heck, this was also before maneuver nodes were added.

While patched conics and maneuver nodes are handy for interplanetary travel as well as getting to Minimus (as it can be easier to miss), don't be overly dependent on it when you don't have access to it at the beginning. Perhaps there should be a way to turn off all those features for Sandbox to enable training?

[panzerwaffe044]

Can you help me, I've also decided to start an extreme career (only reputation was left on 0%), did the same mission with "Science from space near Kerbin", everithing was fine, I upgraded my Launchpad, furthermore, instead of upgrading the "Basic Rocketry", I upgraded the "Basic" science first, that gave me opportunity to sent crafts with lots of power and antenna to the orbit and fulfill this contract dozens of times in one flight. But after my first trip to the Mun's orbit, this contract is not available anymore. Then I saw a new contract "Science from space near Mun". "Yeahhh" - I thought, I would send a probe with batteries and thermometer there and complete it several times before th power is out! But this contract appeared only once!! The next is about landing on the Mun! But I don't have euipment yet (Terrier engine, big fuel tanks) and I'm running out of funding. What to do? What did I miss?

[vat21s]

I find that jet engines are a great starter node for funds, Accept aerial surveys near the station,(Past the desert area is too far) and below 12,000m.

Anything above cannot be done with the Standard jets. These contracts provide about 80k and 6 science and a bit of rep on Standard Hard.

[Moesly_Armlis]

this contract is not available anymore. But I don't have euipment yet (Terrier engine, big fuel tanks) and I'm running out of funding. What to do? What did I miss?

Firstly, welcome to the forums. Well your certainly a tough one to try and crack this at your first attempt but that is the best way. Trial by fire. This thread is about my trailblazing efforts towards the one day that I will complete this challenge. Helpful advice is always appreciated and through the efforts of many this goal can be accomplished. My goal is to land on Mun and Minmus in the least amount of kerbal time.

To find the right contract you might need to decline a contract and keep doing so until the preferred contract becomes available. Reputation and tech tree node are important factors for contract procurement.

The best advice is if you have already gone through any other hard career then give this a try and practice with revert and quicksave. At the moment there are issues that cause the game to crash so that does add some bugs problems but if planned ahead for then these could be mitigated. But for the moment for stability's sake at the least use the quicksave feature just do not abuse it.

On a related issue I am facing at the moment is the contract for the "terrier". I had this contract become available after upgrading to basic rocketry, I then hung onto that contract for a long, long time and then decided to complete it (cancelling might have been the better choice), and now no matter how many contracts declined this important contract is no longer available and now have to land on the Mun without using a "terrier".

The next time around I will have to remember to hold onto that precious "terrier" contract or build science towards ownership of the part. Spending eighteen science points just to unlock the radial decouplers was a tough decision and otherwise faced with exploring the badlands and the pole for science. There has been too much invested now which means there is no use in starting over and I will plod onward.

The VAB and launchpad are now upgraded so the vessel to take me to the Mun is being developed and tested. No "terrier" means this is a large vessel and might strand the pilot on the Mun, good thing I have two pilots. Now who to choose?

Also if you are up to this career challenge post it in the sub-forum KSP Fanworks @ Mission Reports and leave a link on this thread. I am very interested in what route you have chosen to climb this mountain. Here is a cheer for your extreme career and for your rockets to be pointed upward and goo luck.

Cheers,

Sly

[panzerwaffe044]

Thanks! It's actually the first time I'm playing KSP. My friend knows, that I'm a space and aviation fan. I play Orbiter, Take on Mars, Mars colony challenger, DCS Simulator series, Falcon, Space Shuttle simulator and so on. He actually bought me the game as a birthday present. I found a lot of great realism mods here, I'll use them for sure, but a bit later (first of all I got Deadly Reentry and changed some temperature values).

I started it on "hard", but it seemed too easy. So I maxed it out.

I actually used the same metod, as you described, as it was the onlu logical way. Then I came here and saw, that someone else used it :-).

Actually, you were right, 2 minutes of clicking and it came over again.

The next challenge was to land on the Mun and transmit data from there, using current tech, cause I have not enough science for AVIATION and ADVANCED ROCKETRY, I started to experiment in sandbox. This is the most interesting challenge in KSP, to get as much as possible with limited resources and tech! The goal was: complete "Land on the Mun", "Explore the Mun", and later take "Science from the surface" and "Science from space near Mun".

I launched two spacecrafts: Orbiter and Lander. I had enough money for fail, the most important was to gain 4 points of science + 0.1 ScPo for 1 RepPo in later missions.

Btw, this strategy is very helpful, for 10 contracts with 1 Reputation reward you gain 1 ScPoint!

Of course both ships were unmanned, I don't want to lose my experienced crew.

The Orbiter made the job done. It's a one way ticket, so I don't need additional fuel. But without Jeb it was a bit difficult to control, I think I've lost some fuel, but it got to the orbit!

But the "lander".... Well I crashed the first, cause I ran out of fuel, trying to descend. Then I tried another translunar trajectory (stiil no nodes and patched conics - no upgrades yet). The trajectory was oriented just towards the surface. After trying this landing in Sandbox I attached my joystick, which I got used to, because of playing in aviasims, and it worked!! This time I descended correctly and had 6 m/s before touchdown, almost ran out of fuel!!! But is was great!!

Of course they will run out of power soon (after several transmissions), but they'll complete their task. I turned the batts on only to make maneveurs, they will need their power to transmit.

"THE EAG... THE BARREL HAS LANDED"!

Edited May 13, 2015 by panzerwaffe044

[Maolagin]

While patched conics and maneuver nodes are handy for interplanetary travel as well as getting to Minimus (as it can be easier to miss), don't be overly dependent on it when you don't have access to it at the beginning. Perhaps there should be a way to turn off all those features for Sandbox to enable training?

Indeed, I was surprised to find that you really can't turn them off in Sandbox. I even destroyed the tracking station outright, and all the advanced features you get with the station kept right on working in map mode!

Funny thing, if you do that, the only way to return to a flight in progress from the KSC is to launch a new vehicle and switch to the old one from the new one's map view.

[Moesly_Armlis]

The LV-909 "Terrier" is an important piece of equipment for which I had a contract to do experimental testing. Completing the contract or something else has now made it unavailable. Building without the LV-909 has made a Mun landing difficult and any vessel that doesn't strand a kerbal seems at the moment beyond my skill level. My failed attempts to lithobreak on the Mun to land Jeb and return him home or at least LKO have given me time to ponder.

There are two primary sources of income the contract science from space and then followed by a contract for Mun survey's. While I was time warping around to obtain the next survey marker it occurred that with better time management I could go back and launch another vessel to gather the science from space and then return to do the survey. Juggling missions was never worth doing until now.

Strategies can be important, the unpaid R&D can give a quick boost to science while gathering contracts. Even if the value is something like 2.62345 rep for 1 science, when I complete a contract for 1 rep I obtain 0.1 science. This has not been tested for the outsourced R&D strategy.

@panzerwaffe044

You have all kinds of prior experience and looks like you are doing very well. The modding community has done some great work and there is a mod for almost everything. Good find on the strategy, I was looking at that earlier and thought I was going to need a contract that had a least 3 rep in order to obtain one science.

The battery problem is quite an issue, my solution is to obtain the LV-T45 "Swivel" or the LV-909 "Terrier" and reduce the gimbal and output power then turn off the torque from the reaction wheels, SAS also will function without using any battery. Did you attach a command module to you Mun probe because of a need for reaction wheels?

[panzerwaffe044]

Did you attach a command module to you Mun probe because of a need for reaction wheels?

Yes and it is more aerodynamic too. There is no SAS and the rocket is very tall and unstable. Tried without the pod, it is impossible to control and it flies like a brick, espesially during the maximum dynamic pressure at max-q, thats why I also reduced my SRB throttle to 70%. Maybe you can give me some advice concerning the most efficient design, I'm still limited in parts and tech (no advanced rocketry, VAB is limited to 30 parts).

Did my first blind Minmus fly-by, didn't simulate it. Was afraid to lose Jeb. Everything went fine, Minmus gravity is too weak, so I came almost there, where I started from +500 km higher and had a lot of fuel left. I have a question: after "Minmus Fly-by" I was offered a contract "Orbit Minmus", but I won't be able to complete it in the next 3 days, because it seems I need much more fuel to deccelerate and then accelerate again to come back home, and tech is limited. Will it expire for good or I will be able to come to it later?

Edited May 14, 2015 by panzerwaffe044

[Moesly_Armlis]

Did my first blind Minmus fly-by, didn't simulate it. Was afraid to lose Jeb

The markings of a true KSP player.

Maybe you can give me some advice concerning the most efficient design, I'm still limited in parts and tech (no advanced rocketry,

I am not the best rocket designer around here but I have read and watched many tutorials. Having an engine with gimbal seems to make the difference. Control fins can help some too.

I have a question: after "Minmus Fly-by" I was offered a contract "Orbit Minmus", but I won't be able to complete it in the next 3 days, Will it expire for good or I will be able to come to it later?

The special contracts or milestones do disappear and their is no way to cancel it. I have never had a contract expire that I was trying for, you are probably going to get a hefty penalty.

[Moesly_Armlis]

Upgrades cost lots of kerbucks and some buildings are more important than others.

My first strategy was to upgrade the launch pad but that was cancelled and the VAB was chosen because it could increase profits by utilizing the action groups and increase part count to farm science from space.

The mission control building upgrade could help for farming Mun surveys by increasing the number of contracts accepted and thereby increasing the survey markers. That would mean less time warping while you wait for a survey to pass under the orbit.

The astronaut complex is also very important because it increase the science available and EVA reports can be used for science from space contracts. The launch pad does allow for heavier vessels but if you are farming science from space than the EVA reports can be stacked. For example with two command modules this could bring home double the crew reports if removed and then stored back into the command module. The EVA reports can also be doubled too using two command modules. The more I think about it it seems that this building should be upgraded first.

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My journey so far has been very intriguing and was not at all bothered by gathering contracts. It was a challenge to always getting back to Gene and grab a contract along the way. For example If you are about to burn for LKO go and see Gene and grab a science from space contract. While burning the engine it will provide charge to the battery. The crew report transmissions can pay for some of the launch. This technique also works when doing injection burns.

Minmus is next to land on now and looks as if this is a very climbable mountain. What looked like a steep slope has now turned into a plateau.

Now that I have a strategy in place for this extreme hard career all I have to do is redo it and complete it without causing any serious mistakes and in less kerbal time.

[Moesly_Armlis]

The boot up has been refined and the first day ended very well. This method can start an extreme hard career and sets you off for the Mun. There are six vessels that are used but the science slinger does not really count because it is so much fun. The four other vessel allow for records to be broken an orbit and some gravy.

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Preliminary Tasks.

Science Slinger around KSC

Complete BACC contract and gather science from highlands or grasslands

Unlock general rocketry

1. Break some records for profit

2. Escape Atmosphere and retain some science from space.

3. Orbit, gather Science from space and transmit/retain before return.

4. Profit using the science FARM space contract

Once in orbit the contracts for Mun surveys should start to appear. If the vessel can split into two or more and each take on slightly different polar orbits then surveys could take less kerbal time. Another possible route is directly go for a Mun landing without planting a flag, obtain science and return.

Edit :This was done mistakenly with the fund penalty and reputation penalty sliders unchanged. These sliders change the price of the buildings and contract failure reputation loss. We'll chalk that up as some more practice. Again with the correct settings.

Edited May 16, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[panzerwaffe044]

What is the reward for "Terrier" contract?

BTW, do you unlock "AVIATION" in your tech-tree? I doubted whether to unlock it or not. But I did it. I created an aerial lab and explored all biomes on Kerbin and made all science possible, using it. It also helped to get to the rooftops of the KSC buildings. I also need it, because some time later I'll get "AERODYNAMICS" because of the FAIRINGS only, I'm playing with Deadly re-entry and FAR and it's very important to me.

Aerial Lab - 1

First Polar expedition.

That's my current tech-tree. As far as I understand I have the same difficulty settings as you, but I started with 0 reputation. When created the campaign I thought that it would be logical to start from 0. Kerbals make their first steps, building flying powder-barrels, don't punish them, by giving them -1000. :-)

TECHTREE

Order of development:

1). Engineering 101

2). Basic Rocketry

3). Survivability

4). Basic science

5). General Rocketry

6). Stability

7). Aviation

8). Advanced Rocketry

I'm looking forward to Electrics. To make proper space-probes with SOLAR PANELS at last, I'm still limited to 30 parts and have to carry huge amounts of batteries to make my missions profitable.

I actually managed to make some and even landed one, but after 4 transmissions the batteries were dead, I posted about them before.

Now with "Terrier" I have 100% Munorbit-and-back capable craft. 1 ship orbits the mun in polar orbit and makes "Science from Space near mun" and "Surveys" and 1 is near Kerbin with "sc fr near Kerbin" and a tourist. I've also sent two space-labs, base on these crafts and gathered 100% science from "space near mun" and "space high above the mun". But a proper manned Lander mission isn't possible for now, because of 30 parts limit. I upgraded Launchpad and now collecting money for VAB.

The next step, I think will be orbiting Minmus and gathering space science until I have Electrics and VAB upgrade.

What's your tech-tree order, by the way?

Edited May 16, 2015 by panzerwaffe044

[Moesly_Armlis]

The KSC upgrade order does seem to matter on what is the fastest way to earn profit.

The Launchpad helps to send out heavier rockets and combine this with advanced rocketry tech then the 30 part count limit has less impact. The only problem here is there is greater risk of leveling that shiny new launchpad with a stray booster stage.

The Astronaut Complex increase the science by returning EVA reports from space around Kerbin and Mun and the ability to plant flags. The EVA and a scientist makes a powerful combination, the science gathered can be done and the experiments restored. These experiments are stored on board both command modules and returning the vessel close to KSC will make for a tidy profit (use a recovery team to return each individual experiment). While the cost of hiring new kerbals is rather expensive rescuing them is an option and the roster can hold twelve. Rendezvous are possible around kerbin and are limited by the tracking centre. Pushing pods via EVA is another option if running out of fuel and need a little boost to get back home.

The VAB does help to increase the turn over rate for goo experiments and to complete the contract is rather quick for both man and kerman hours. For each contract completed there is a 1 point gain to reputation. Better reputation unlocks better contracts. With additional parts the launchpad weight limit can be dealt with by using LFO boosters instead of SRB's. Never have I appreciated action groups more now that I have to go so long without using them.

This contract popped up. Be careful these types of contracts cannot be cancelled and cannot be completed until the tracking centre is upgraded, there is no visible orbit of the vessel.

The farm for Mun surveys can be further developed and an experiment is needed. After upgrading the astronaut complex the rescue kerbal contract becomes available. With two kerbals rescued these then can be implemented by positioning them in a Mun polar orbit. Even just dropping them there if they are not pilots and have the pilot return to kerbin. If they are to get home they will need to get out and push, be rescued or be fired the bad way. The idea is to speed up the process of completing the contracts, more observers would yield a quicker turn over rate in both man and kerman hours.

@panzerwaffe044

My current tech tree order is

1. Engineering 101

2. Basic Rocketry

3. Survivability

4. General Rocketry

5. Advanced Rocketry (this frees up the LV-909 contract slot that I hold onto)

6. Basic science

7. Stability

8. Fuel Systems

9. General Construction

Landing on the VAB Main building for science looks like fun, I just do it the boring way and get up close to the doors.

The aviation tech node is important and that science flyer I believe will become very useful and important when the need arises to visit those extra special kerbin places. The biome I have not visited yet is the badlands, all the others are close by to KSC and the pole I land there when returning from Mun (Bob was on board and science experiments that were conducted around the Mun were restored).

The "Terrier" allows space travel to become much more feasible. This is why I home in on the tech general rocketry for the contract and advanced rocketry to own the part and free up the contract slot.

Stock deadly re-entry was blowing up parts all over the place when I first updated to 1.0 after the updates now nothing but fins are popping. Too bad I was looking for some extra problems to make stock more difficult. After running through this challenge I will do it modded up.

Keep firing rockets,

Sly

Edited May 16, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[Moesly_Armlis]

Having the EVA available is important when orbiting the Mun. There are now over 40 science from Mun space reports chillin' out at the south pole with Bob. A mission to jet over there and return that science wouldn't hurt the bottom line. The Mun survey's paid quite well, however, the contract to return Mun science from space will payout more and in short time. The science collected while waiting for survey's will help in achieving the next node. The return from Mun orbit contract was about to expire and that is when Jebediah and Bob returned.

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@panzerwaffe044

So the aviation tech has an important role now. The contract for science from space around the Mun at 5200 kerbucks and over 40 of them has me rethinking my tech tree strategy. A rocket can make it to the pole in short time but I don't have battery tech (which is one node away and has me weighing this out) I will need to land at the pole and transmit the data and when the batteries run low charge them back up with the engine. Your polar expedition was the inspiration.

Edited May 17, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[RAINCRAFTER]

Good Job, but this should be in the mission report section.

[panzerwaffe044]

...when the batteries run low charge them back up with the engine.

That's why I focused on getting electrics first by all means. I have ulocked electrics and upgraded the VAB. That allowed me to create a probe-satellite network. I launched 4, 2 are landed on the Mun and Minmus, 2 are orbiting them. At least the cash problem is solved for now.

Still have to attach the pod (almost 900 kg of dead weight), because the OKTO's torque is not enough, especially on ascent. I've spent all my SP on "electrics" and can't unlock "flight control" (for reaction wheel). Now I'm looking for the way to land a giant lab on the Mun/Minmus and return it home. My current tech doesn't allow me to build a big stable rocket (need general construction at least). I tried it to Mun, but haven't tried it to Minmus, which seemes to be easier, because of the low gravity. I'll try it... Or I can send many little probes and try to bring them back.

Or I can gather money for EVA-unlock and do the same, as you did, to unlock tech-tree further. That seemes to be the most reasonable way to gain SP now. Thanks for the tip. I'm playing KSP less than a month, your notes are very helpful.

[Moesly_Armlis]

With the boot up complete now comes another challenge. In order to minimize the kerbal time all vessel launches and contracts must be completed around the clock and no using time warp unless that is the only option.

With effective contract acquirement the time it takes to land a kerbal on Mun can be significantly reduced. Here is a routine that has a kerbal in polar orbit ready to do Mun survey's and while that survey is nearing the orbit path, launches of science farm space are done in the meantime.

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Contracts are carefully selected to minimize tracking centre time, this means declining contracts until three Mun survey contracts that are above the vessels altitude are available. Then over to the tracking centre and see which are near to the orbit path. Back to acquire or decline the Mun survey contracts. If a contract for science from kerbin space pops up then these are accepted and completed quickly. Extra gravy please.

The next contract to complete is orbit Mun and return contract. Since the Mun surveys pay well you complete enough to push onward to achieve the next goal.

Insert picture of Bob doing an extra vehicular activity; jetpack the vessel for kerbin insertion while Jebediah drives.

Phase II!

The rendezvous two vessels around kerbin appears and should be completed. While waiting for the vessels to rendezvous contracts for science from around kerbn as well as science from Mun and Mun survey's could be completed. Using a probe to rendezvous with was achieved and rescuing a kerbal could also be included in the mission planning.

Time management is important and launching a properly designed vessel that has either a kerbal and/or probe impact and complete the land on the Mun contract can be included during the same time frame.

Solving the financing issues of the KSC is something I find appealing, however I do lack skills in vessel design, piloting and navigation. It took me several attempts to solve a method for Mun polar orbit and I would not be able to properly describe the best way for that to be achieved. The same could be said about vessel/kerbal rendezvous. But impact on Mun was fun!

The probe core has no SAS and flying through the atmosphere is a challenge to not have the vessel flip. Even with reduced gimbal range the vessel has problems staying upright as it approached the surface of Mun. The vessel flipped and used the remaining fuel to regain control and an upright position.

Reducing engine output power and a longer burn for descent looks to be the best solution. The COM could be lowered by placing the service bay lower but unsure if this will solve or create new problems. Those service bays are tough.

Edited May 21, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[panzerwaffe044]

After establishing a satellite-drone network to do Mun/Minmus space/surface contracts I started to think about the Mun.

Minmus Surveyor

It was too dangerous to send Kerbals there, things can happen, you know... So I started my unmanned Munar Program. I needed a vehicle capable of bringing a big lab to the Mun and back. The simulations began... The EVA over Mun helped to unlock SPACE EXPLORATION (barometer) and add more potential science!!!

Going to the Mun (early version of the vehicle)

Somewhere in the Midlands.

Bringing precious science home.

Well, the mission was a success, though I crashed 4 Landers (3 tipped over, but managed to transmit part of the data, 1 smashed into the mountain during low altitude approach). Each mission gave me 25 SP. But these things are rather expensive, about 60k each.

When landing those Labs I thought, it would be good to bring Jeb or Bob here to gain Crew report and EVA. I wanted to add a pod to the ship, but it became too heavy. The simulations showed, that it was not enough fuel to lift the manned lab off Mun and return it home in 100% of the situations.

Solution was to land a Kerbal on the Mun, but with no lab on the light vehicle, the Plant Flag and space/surface of Mun/Kerbin helped to reduce the cost of the manned missions. Jeb was the first to go...

For all Kerbalkind...

After that a little improvement came, the rockets became more aerodynamic and stable...

In the Canyons near the East Farside Crater, good target. if you are in the equatorial orbit or near it, but difficult to land because of the steep slopes.

The aerodynamics and landing practice let me save more fuel. The only good way too use the fuel is to increase payload in my case. So I had to try to add the pod again. The simulations started... And it worked. It was enough fuel to reach Mun, land Bob and the lab and return them intact!!! The mission began...

Manned Munar Lab (no need for a second lab, Bob is in the crew assisted by OKTO autopilot system).

Bob in the Polar Crater

Bob and science return to Kerbin...

It was a very exciting challenge to explore Mun that way. Each misison with Bob+science gives me 30 SP, but missions are rather expensive. Mission was completed, though several vehicles crashed (good, they were unmanned). If Bob is stuck on the Mun the rescue team is ready to go!

The Mun exploration continues...

Edited May 22, 2015 by panzerwaffe044

[panzerwaffe044]

http://i.imgur.com/kiydIAg.gif

That was tough, was there an antenna on the lander? Did you transmit the data?

The probe core has no SAS

I also launched such vehicles to the Mun. In my opinion the problem is not in SAS, but in the lack on reaction wheels. Thats why I added a pod. And actually landed... But it's difficult, thank God I have already unlocked the OKTO and Inline reaction wheels...

[Moesly_Armlis]

An update for Mun impactor. This design makes use of the wonderful game feature of part clipping. Part clipping makes everything smooth and also increases the survivability of the probe core. The girder is somewhat like a roll cage protecting the core and with the service bay being so tough allows at least for an impact of 49 m/s.

This first attempt went surprisingly well. During this practice career I use quicksave and allow for me to practice navigation and piloting skills. For the first time a mission that was for a Mun encounter went from launch to landing without the need to reload.

Passing through the atmosphere was improved, the nose cone seems to help out. The boosters also give the vessel drag and the design uses those boosters up to 30 km. This seems inefficient but without the boosters attached the vessel flips.

The part limit is 30 and those boosters are using six of them. Another design did not use boosters and had instead added fuel tanks and fins, problem was the vessel became uncontrollable. With the LV-T45 "Swivel" the vessels is controllable but still shaky and wants to wander even in the upper atmosphere. When the LV-909 "Terrier" kicks over the vessel might flip and that is around 50 km and the solution was to stage after hitting that mark.

After achieving LKO a direct intercept with Mun was plotted. At an altitude of 42 km with a velocity of 800 m/s the remaining ÃŽâ€V budget was 1200 m/s. Reducing horizontal velocity was done first and allowed for a decent that was vertical. The altitude was 25 km from the surface and a burn of around 600 m/s was completed. The remaining decent was slow to allow adjustments for a vertical positioning. This mission is designed to make a sound landing then a hop and crash into another biome. With a little more practice I look forward to that accomplishment.

Temperature scans above the surface of Mun are executed in the same manner as Mun survey's were done and can be carried out by using multiple probes. These scans and are very lucrative at 21k total after completing three scans and appear after acquiring the temperature probe. The science from Mun surface appears after landing and can add around 7k to the funding while the batteries last and are more lucrative than the temperature scans because they take less kerbal time to compete.

Other notable contracts are plant flag on Mun and fly by Minmus. Theses will further the career and open up new contracts.

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@panzerwaffe044

Batteries and EVA seem very important to expand the career

The SAS does help when all you have is an engine that has gimbal. The reaction wheels allow orientation changes without having to use any thrust. Keeping the vessel steady is another feature of the reaction wheels. If the thrust is maxed out and a slight change in direction is not corrected for the vessel will end up spinning. Without using the time warp the vessel continues to spin and is very difficult to regain control without the use of reaction wheels or SAS. My piloting skill has improved and can sometimes regain control and stop spinning by careful use of the thruster and gimbal. A flight stick would be so much better that trying to use the keyboard.

That last mission failed as the probe core got snapped off. This new improved model is more robust. Crash testing this design has been a whole lot of fun. Did you know that a crashed vessel counts for a Mun landing contract completion?

Edited May 23, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[impyre]

Personally, I simply turn penalties down, but leave everything else at max difficulty. The most grindy thing about the game right now is the insane building costs (especially if we're assuming that someone playing on "hard mode" has a good idea as to what they are doing)... doing missions without patched conics isn't that difficult, working within limitations imposed by lower tier buildings is interesting... until it prevents you from moving further out... the problem is that in order to make the money you have to perform miraculous tasks with few resources and parts... multiple times. Doing it once is fun, just to show "I can do this!"... but you shouldn't have to jump through the same hoop so many times just to get to the next "level". Turning penalties down allows you to upgrade buildings in a timeframe that makes more sense given your accomplishments, while keeping rewards low helps give that extra incentive to run an efficient operation.

[panzerwaffe044]

A flight stick would be so much better that trying to use the keyboard.

That's what I do. The difference is huge.

Did you know that a crashed vessel counts for a Mun landing contract completion?

No, that's interesting. I landed my first probe intact, but it was just luck, so I put off my Mun landings until LV-909 unlock. Mission failures would be critical for my budget at that moment.

but you shouldn't have to jump through the same hoop so many times just to get to the next "level".

Agree, that's the most annoying part about extreme-hard mode. But I just play several hours a day and try to alternate earning money and science missions in order not to get bored. 1 trip to Mun, then make some money, it's quite OK.

The real cool thing about this mode is the lack of savegames and flight reverts. You really have to count all risks, do simulations. Failures can really ruin your career. The most exciting is to do something blind. I sent a manned mission to Minmus with very ealy tech without simulations. After the return burn I had 7 fuel left, that was close... But multiple contracts were completed and SP gained. I've also crashed several probes into the Mun (these were really expensive missions), there were multiple failures during launch, the abort and launch escape systems really make sense in this mode now! Really many things you have to care about in contrast with usual modes!

[Moesly_Armlis]

The practice is finished and a plan of action has been assembled. The vessels have been thoroughly tested, the pilot trained and the traverse plotted. The number of kerbal days to accomplish a flag planting on Mun and Minmus should be less than ninety nine.

The method so far has the astronaut complex being a very important building and will be the first to be upgraded. The reason is unlocking science around space. An orbit can return EVA reports in space from various biomes and if a scientist is on board the vessel then can test Goo too. The science points will unlock parts that are required to achieve a landing on Mun and Minmus. The same craft style that lands on Mun is used to land on Minmus. The craft is large and heavy and needs to have the launch pad upgraded.

The advanced rocketry tech has the FL-T400 tank and reduces the part count of the vessel. Also if holding on to the contract to test the LV-909 "Terrier" then by unlocking this tech will free up a contract slot. This tech route will allow a kerbal to land on Mun and Minmus without any other building upgrades other than astronaut complex and then the launchpad.

Having probes can increase funding and should be next on the list of technology acquirement to further this career.

“Luke, you switched off your targeting computer  what’s wrong?â€Â

Patched conics and maneuver nodes were thought of as necessary to achieve a landing but through practice comes knowledge.

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The treasure is out there and the hunt is on. The last Minmus landing I found treasure. While using the EVA jetpack I found four biomes within a close distance of each other. I have been to Minmus before but never cruised around looking for treasure.

Biome Treasure Chests

[Moesly_Armlis]

The practice has paid off. This last play through I followed the route planned and this is the result of a few days at KSC. Currently at step ten and look forward to Jebediah's return.

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The route:

1. Obtain science and unlock technology node Engineering 101

2. Obtain science and unlock technology node Basic Rocketry

3. Enter upper atmosphere for science and profit

4. Exit atmosphere and don't forget the goo

5. Orbit Kerbin and obtain science and unlock technology node General Rocketry

6. Launch Mun fly by

7. Goo science farm space and expand the Launch Pad

8. Obtain science and unlock technology node Stability

9. Launch Bill to Mun Polar Orbit and Mun Surveys above 20 km

10. Goo science farm space

11. Expand Astronaut Complex

12. Launch Valentina and Bob to Kerbin Polar Orbit

13. Jebediah smiling upon his return and sees the two new buildings are now in place

14. Return EVA science from Mun

15. Unlock technology nodes Advanced Rocketry and Survivability

16. Launch Minmus landing

17. Launch Mun Survey Bill & Bob's Big Adventure

18. Launch Mun landing

19. Plant Flag on Mun, biome EVA treasure hunt and return to Kerbin

20. Plant Flag on Minmus, biome EVA treasure hunt and return to Kerbin

Technology

1. Engineering 101

2. Basic Rocketry

3. General Rocketry

4. Stability

5. Advanced Rocketry

6. Survivability

With a career starting off in this direction a flag planting and return home from Mun and Minmus should take less than ninety nine kerbal days. The mission reports part of the forum is where I will detail the results of following this route and will leave this link. If anyone else wishes to try this adventure please leave a link to your mission report.

Mission Report

The White Vest Chronicle

Chapter One: The Goo That Fell Farm Space

As well the journey will continue with chapter two Beyond The Reach of Goo. Details and planning have started and could use advice or assistance from other advanced travelers on the possible routes available and methods of generating funds. Please post these guides here on this thread.

Edited June 14, 2015 by MoeslyArmlis

[uglyduckling81]

You can increase the difficulty with DRE, Tac Life Support and Remote Tech.

With these 3 mods you make re-entry dangerous if done incorrectly.

Tac life support means you can't have Kerbals out indefinitely, and Remote Tech means you can't just do all the missions with probes instead.

It adds a lot to the game without turning it into a grind.