Reverse Tech Tree: Starting big and ending small

[Lord Aurelius]

Note: This is a somewhat silly thread. This is in no way a serious suggestion, although if someone made a tech tree based on this concept I would try it just for fun.

I just had a random thought: what would the game be like if the tech tree were reversed, i.e. instead of starting with the Flea and the Mk1 pod, you started with the Mammoth and the Mk3 Cockpit?

The progression would be from larger to smaller parts, so some parts would still be approximately where they are now (RTG, ion engines) but in general the progression would be essentially the opposite to what it is now.

This obviously wouldn't be for a balanced playthrough (would probably need to be for a science game due to size/weight and funds), but it could make for some interesting design challenges when all you have to work with is oversized parts.

A possible beginning to such a tree:

Start:

Mk3 Cockpit

Mammoth Engine

Large 3.75m Tank

Mk3 to 3.75m adapter

3.75m decoupler

3.75m heatshield

material science bay

mk16-xl parachute

And an example first craft:

What are your thoughts and suggestions on how this progression could work?

Edited May 7, 2015 by Lord Aurelius

[Aerindel]

For some things it would make a lot of sense, more than the current tech tree at least which is totally bonkers.

[panzer1b]

For some things it would make a lot of sense, more than the current tech tree at least which is totally bonkers.

Whats so bad about current tech tree? im not saying its great, but its a massive improvement over the past 0.90 one. At least i get my bloody jet engines quickly, and for the most part the progression in size/advancement is at least logical.

[Lord Aurelius]

@Aerindel, panzer1b

While I agree that the stock tech tree has its issues (yay for tech tree mods), that's not really the purpose of this thread and I would really like to keep it from turning into yet another discussion of the stock tech tree.

This is supposed to be a funny and not-entirely-serious discussion (although if someone actually makes a tree based on this concept things could get very serious very quickly...) on whether a tech tree starting with the biggest parts would be feasible in this game, what the progression would be like, and what kinds of Whackjobian monstrosities people would build for things like their first Mun lander since they don't have any small parts.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Lord Aurelius

[Reddeyfish]

struts and fuel lines are rather close to the beginning of the original tech tree; watching people build without those would be rather interesting.

Also, with your tech tree people would have drogue chutes before normal chutes. landing is also going to be interesting.

[Lord Aurelius]

@Reddeyfish

This isn't strictly a reversed tech tree, the idea is more starting big and ending small, with parts set up so you at least have the basics at all times (for example, the start includes a 1.25m parachute since that's the biggest that's available, and also the materials science bay).

An exception could be made for struts and fuel lines, those are support parts that are more essential on large rockets than small ones.

Regular chutes are actually heavier than drogue chutes, so I it would make sense (both practically and going by largest part) to get them first.

[I_Killed_Jeb]

Sounds like a KSP Benjamin Button challenge

[Kuu Lightwing]

Materials bay? No way! At the start of such a tree should be the LAB!

[Renegrade]

Whats so bad about current tech tree? im not saying its great, but its a massive improvement over the past 0.90 one. At least i get my bloody jet engines quickly, and for the most part the progression in size/advancement is at least logical.

Well, one problem IS that it starts small and goes big. This suggestion/joke actually makes SOME degree of sense.

Aside from interactions between part count limitations and tiny tanks (and this vanishes almost instantly unless you've cranked the building costs to 1000% or so), and eventually rocket stiffness/lag issues, tiny tanks are actually more powerful items than big tanks (that's one of the reasons why people keep on asking for procedural tanks).

Large tanks limit your flexibility - imagine if you ONLY had T800s and Jumbo64s. What would a light science probe look like? Or the last stage of a one-man craft built around the mk1 pod? Mk1-T800-lv-909? It would have a lot of delta-v, but it would weigh something like six tons minimum. If you had all the tanks, you could use a T200+T100 and have a nice little return stage. And if youreally wanted to, and your part count/lag issues were under control, you could make the same craft as the T800 design with a set of eight T100s or four T200s etc.

Having to deal with heavy other parts is also bad - There's very little the big cockpits can do that the Mk1 can't do (basically hold more than one kerbal), and they're murdering your dry mass.

People get all spazzy drunk over specific impulse, when dry mass is often MORE important.

Anyhow, reversing it in the manner suggested would make it so that you WERE by and large unlocking upgrades (aside from a few obvious exceptions).

[T-Bouw]

Oh man, I'm just thinking about the tons and tons of money required in the beginning.

That bail-out strategy would get used a lot!

Still, at the very least, such a reverse tech-tree makes you think...

[Lord Aurelius]

@Kuu Lightwing

I thought about starting with the lab, but it's a science over time part and I wanted to make sure at least one regular experiment besides the crew/eva reports would be available. Although now that I think about it, that would be an interesting dynamic, having to get enough crew reports to fill up the lab to get science...

@T-Bouw

I thought about the funds issue as well, which is why I suggested that this might be more appropriate for science mode (or a career mode with the funds slider at 1000% like Renegrade suggested).

And yes, the whole point of this kind of progression is to make you think completely outside the current progression box.

Some good ideas here, keep it coming.