Venting the 1.0 launch

[Temeter]

Wow...27 user reviews...more people than that probably work at squad.

And how many game reviewers really have the time to truly understand KSP? or have clue one when it comes to realistic spaceflight?

That means nothing. The measure of success is not how well you fool the ignorant but how you are viewed by your friends, and yes, thats what we are, only people who love(d) KSP would be here at all.

'Fool the ignorant', 'The measure of success', great, now we've get even more melodramatic than before. Even on this forum, there is only a minority which is wasting their time hardcore complaining. Reviewers indeed take a more or less in depth look at the game, so their voice matter alot. And similarly next to none of the complaints are even existent in most other forums, or in all those threads below the reviews.

If you'd actually take a look at thsoe, then you'd notice a staggering amount of positive responses.

One thing: For those players who are playing this game for years numbers don't mean ..... It doesn't matter if it's 1.0 or 0.95, everything is just another update, nothing more. It matters for reviews and new players who want a servicable game, and most of these players seem to be completely convinced it is one.

So, the release version wasn't to your liking? Who cares, it doesn't even matter to you. And don't even start something like 'one the behalf of new players'.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Temeter

[gmiddlemass]

"bungled" may be too strong a word, but it certainly wasn't a "flawless" or "masterpiece" release.

Can you think of any modern game that has had a "flawless" or "masterpiece" release? I certainly can't...

[andruszkow]

Can you think of any modern game that has had a "flawless" or "masterpiece" release? I certainly can't...

Me neither. I mean, I absolutely loved Skyrim in it's initial release, so much I totally ignored the huge amount of bugs that was in it.

[Temeter]

Can you think of any modern game that has had a "flawless" or "masterpiece" release? I certainly can't...

Or take Stalker. Absolutely messy game where you could easily see the overlong production time, all the thrown off features, and lots of bugs.

And it's still one of the most atmospheric game worlds ever created. And that's for a semi-open world game, a genre, which is kind of infamous for being very janky when it comes to credibility.

[0x7be]

Guys, I don't get point of all that drama.

I was playing KSP from 0.14 and up to 0.25, then left it for a while and returned for 1.0.

I'am enjoying game, running fresh new career and having tons of fun. That's the point of whole game - having fun.

If game is delivering fun, I'am playing it. If it doesn't - I leave it.

Why starting flame wars around it?

[Octa]

TL;DR: You have most likely owned this game for a long time. Be glad work is still done on it. You probably spent more than 500 hours playing the game. If you're stuck in this "Lé critique de la KSP 1.0" mindset, you probably should go outside and do something else for a while. All of the sudden, a few minor bugs doesn't seem like such a big deal after all.

I'm not criticizing the whole game, just the political decisions made by sqad. And as far as i know, there weren't just a few bugs in 1.0 (hard to differ between actual bugs or big flaw in the game mechanic), but many unpolished places in the game because auf the changes made between .90 and 1.0: LV-Ns were almost impossible to use, pods flipped over during reentry, planes accelerated and heated way to fast and so on.

Who would have been hurt if 1.0 was called 0.99 and 1.0.2 or 1.0.3 would be the new 1.0 "official release"/"gold"-version?

And i'm totally not going with your "it's just a game" or "you already paid and got the game - deal with it" statements, because they are knockout arguments that can end every discussion here about the game.

[Jouni]

Squad apparently had to release 1.0 this spring, so they released it. The reasons don't matter anymore. If you really have to find out, buy Squad and ask them.

As predicted, the 1.0 release wasn't what I would call "release-quality", but it compares well with the 1.0 releases of most other games. People just don't want to delay the release of their software until it's "release-quality", because the Internet has made patching so easy.

Some people were afraid that the "rushed" release of KSP 1.0 would result in poor reviews, but that fear proved to be unfounded. After all, game reviews are usually based on the first impressions, not on hundreds of hours of gameplay and thoughts on what the game could have been.

[ColourOfFire]

Wow...27 user reviews...more people than that probably work at squad.

And how many game reviewers really have the time to truly understand KSP? or have clue one when it comes to realistic spaceflight?

That means nothing. The measure of success is not how well you fool the ignorant but how you are viewed by your friends, and yes, thats what we are, only people who love(d) KSP would be here at all.

Dude, what are you talking about? The measure of success is if you can make your dream reality without going bankrupt. In that respect the 'ignorant' as you like to call them are just as important as 'your friends'. Some people here seem to forget that this is Squad's game, not yours. The fact that you threw in a couple of bucks for early access doesn't entitle you to anything, nor does it make you more or less part of things than anyone who bought it at launch. Squad saw fit to launch 1.0, Squad got rave reviews, Squad sold a lot of Harvester's dream product, seems Squad did very well. And in the process provided many people with a game they put a crazy amount of hours in. The fact that a few disgruntled forum members seem to disagree doesn't matter much. If you have specific issues with the game there's more than enough room for discussion and criticism, but continuous complaining about a version number is just sad.

Also, they said development is not going to stop, there will be some more features, this was announced multiple times. The announcement states that this is what they envisioned 4 years ago, not that it ends here.

Edited May 7, 2015 by ColourOfFire

[andruszkow]

I'm not criticizing the whole game, just the political decisions made by sqad

That's the problem right there, which is why the "It's a game, deal with it" argument is right on the money in this particular situation.

You bought a LICENSE to play a game. You even got it early access, and probably a lot cheaper than it's current sales price, but all of the sudden, people have both the proficiency and right to judge political decisions made by a company which is providing you entertainment?

Im not gonna drag this out more than it already has been. I cringe at adults bickering in forums like this, like there's no tomorrow. Go outside and taste the real world for a bit. You're all acting like spoiled juveniles.

[78stonewobble]

Just annoying, i'd have been shot if i said 'here, this is finished' in my previous job and gave them something with a similar bug-feature ratio.

Just out of curiosity. What is the standard for bugs to feature or lines of code ratio allowed, for finalized software end products?

Because, I can't really see anything about that in consumer law. I think there should be... Like the defects to pixels standard for flatscreens, but as far as I know, there isn't. Nor is there a comprehensive sampling of thoroughly tested products, so we can even know which ones are good or bad.

PS: On the other hand, shooting people seems to be pretty much illegal most places.

[Champ]

The last release should not have tons of brand new content.

Squad explicitly said on multiple occasions that 1.0 is NOT the last release.

That has yet to be determined. If squad sits back and says "we have your monies already, suck it" then it will indeed be pointless. If they fix these problems in 1.03 then it will have done its job.

No. The first thread will have done its job. The many other threads will always be pointless.

Personally, when the Devs say something is done that means they are planing on walking away. Maybe not all at once but it means its basically over, they are happy, fix a few bugs and move on

Again : they said it's not the final release, they will continue to work on it. You are just talking about your fantasy ("they call it 1.0 so they will stop working on it"), not about a real thing.

[Octa]

That's the problem right there, which is why the "It's a game, deal with it" argument is right on the money in this particular situation.

You bought a LICENSE to play a game. You even got it early access, and probably a lot cheaper than it's current sales price, but all of the sudden, people have both the proficiency and right to judge political decisions made by a company which is providing you entertainment?

Im not gonna drag this out more than it already has been. I cringe at adults bickering in forums like this, like there's no tomorrow. Go outside and taste the real world for a bit. You're all acting like spoiled juveniles.

So....i should just shut up?

You're right, i'm not a stackholder and i'm not qualified to give orders to squad. But the way you want it is like squad sitting high up in an ivory tower. We throw our money up and pray that something fun will eventually fall down. Basically, that's what the huge publishers like EA and Activision do. Just because you're used to buggy releases and beeing dropped like a hot potato after they have your money (= no important bugfixes after release) from them does not mean it's good, and i give myself the right to at least complain about the way the gaming industry has evolved.

Compared to usual practice in the business with AAA-Games, squads work and community management is the archetyp of a great game studio.

I expect the worst flaws in KSP 1.0 will be fixed in 2 weeks, may it be actual bugfixing or tweaking the game design to be (even) more fun, 1 hotfix and 1 hotfix for that fix were already released. In my opinion, this 2 week phase, where new bugs and flaws are found and fixed is pretty much foreseeable.

So then again, i'm asking the same question again: Would there have been any casualties or damages with a last public hotfix phase before 1.0 besides the final changelog?

If one update means something important during development, it's the jump to 1.0.

27th April: 0.95

1st May: 0.96 and 0.97

11th May: 1.0

[Dirty Bob]

There isn't even a horse to beat anymore. It was pulp days ago.

Yes we get it, there were bugs. Amazingly, life is still going on. Who would of thought?

[Frostiken]

There were a few bugs, but got quickly patched away.

Well let's see, in 1.0, one of the oldest parts in the game - the parachutes - were obviously bugged and working poorly. Unless not a single QA tester actually managed to use the parachutes that ended up in the final build, this is ridiculous that it got missed. But that's not really that bad considering...

... that in 1.0.2, one of the biggest features of the 1.0 launch - reentry heating - doesn't even freaking WORK. Again, did nobody test this? I'm not talking about space shuttles landing at 7 mph, this is one of the few launch-centric features and one that is pretty damn important, and they rushed their hotfix out so hurridly that it straight up broke a major facet of the game.

- - - Updated - - -

That's the problem right there, which is why the "It's a game, deal with it" argument is right on the money in this particular situation.

You bought a LICENSE to play a game. You even got it early access, and probably a lot cheaper than it's current sales price, but all of the sudden, people have both the proficiency and right to judge political decisions made by a company which is providing you entertainment?

Im not gonna drag this out more than it already has been. I cringe at adults bickering in forums like this, like there's no tomorrow. Go outside and taste the real world for a bit. You're all acting like spoiled juveniles.

I wish I could find your entire internet posting history so I could throw this back in your face for every time you've complained about a AAA game from EA or Ubisoft having problems. And I absolutely guarantee that you have. You people talk about Squad like they're your freaking wife. They aren't. They're somewhat-competent game developers with curiously poor management techniques who couldn't hang onto a stable staff for longer than a couple months and have a cult of personality going on that ultimately benefits nobody. Woo?

[andruszkow]

I wish I could find your entire internet posting history so I could throw this back in your face for every time you've complained about a AAA game from EA or Ubisoft having problems. And I absolutely guarantee that you have.

That's funny, considering KSP is more or less the only game I have played in the past 6 years or so. (Except for Skyrim, which I mentioned earlier, and praised despite it being very buggy).

I guess I'm just not the type to sit and bicker on forums local to specific games about features. In fact, I submit bugs I find in software I use, and contribute to iron them out if applicable. Im positive by nature I guess.

Grow up, it's not even cute anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

I wish I could find your entire internet posting history so I could throw this back in your face for every time you've complained about a AAA game from EA or Ubisoft having problems. And I absolutely guarantee that you have. You people talk about Squad like they're your freaking wife. They aren't. They're somewhat-competent game developers with curiously poor management techniques who couldn't hang onto a stable staff for longer than a couple months and have a cult of personality going on that ultimately benefits nobody. Woo?

Haha, seriously, can't you see it? Can't you see how rude that is? Where's your manners?

I'm not talking about Squad as if it was my wife, frankly quite the opposite. I'm talking about Squad as a company from whom I bought a product that they just happen to keep on improving free of charge, instead of acting like I'm personally offended because they didn't live up to whatever definition I had of "doing things right".

</eod>

Edited May 7, 2015 by andruszkow

[Cebi]

Oh it is not the horse carcas i smell...it is actualy a troll (-:

[Frostiken]

Haha, seriously, can't you see it? Can't you see how rude that is? Where's your manners?

Rude to whom, Squad? Like I care, Squad has been rude to me in the past, and at one point was handing out bans to anyone who criticized them and nearly incited a forum revolt. Even if they later changed their mind, I still haven't forgiven Squad for the whole multiplayer > resources fiasco. You want to talk about rude?

I'll give Squad credit for striking gold with a creative idea for a game, but creative ideas don't make up for lousy community management, horrible communication practices with their players, god-awful management, failing to deliver on promised features and consistently falling short on those they did, and at some points dragging their feet so slowly that some of us thought the game was dead.

Frankly, if 1.0 is still missing features, I don't blame their progress between 0.90 and 1.0, I blame their progress around .19 to .22, where their updates were so godawful and completely void of any useful content whatsoever that I don't even know why they bothered putting out updates at all. They basically dicked around for a year and accomplished almost nothing. You could've combined everything they accomplished in that timespan and still had an update with less content than in the .18 patch. So if 1.0 is lacking, let's go back to 2013 when they were hiring community part creators and then losing them only a couple months later after they put out only a couple new parts (and we STILL don't have all the KSPX parts... the mod is still around in the Addons section and being updated), and the single most interesting thing in one of the updates was changing the KerbalCams from static image slideshows to a 3D model. Oh and I think they retextured the runway for that one. Wow, it took them four months to put a texture on a giant rectangle.

Even after all that wait, .22 gave us the basics of career mode and it wasn't for another six months that we got the other half. And even then, since early 2014 we've been telling them that career mode isn't fun, it's grindy, dull, one-dimensional, and uninteresting, and they haven't done anything to rectify that whatsoever.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Frostiken

[Temeter]

...still haven't forgiven...

There is the issue. You are reacting far too sensitive about these matters. Almost all of these things aren't crucially important and also handled this way by most people, yet you - and some others, to be fair - decided to take it personal. Of course others handling of the situation and your perceptions completely clash!

Happens sometimes when you are very invested into something, but I can only recommend to take a step back and take things for what they are.

That's why the simple 'it's just a game' is indeed a sensible answer. The horse is dead and the game is very well received by new players, the only people, to which the exact point of release actually matters. As for the game's design, yep, most people seem pretty happy, KSP is indeed very succesfull. That doesn't mean your opinion is meaningless or anything, but it means Squad did something reasonable with KSP which made sense from their standpoint. And lets be honest, nobody of us would be so invested in the first place if the game wouldn't be great.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Temeter

[Moss]

I've always thought it was something of a faux-pas to open a thread to vent about something after the original one was closed.

[Kerbart]

Can you think of any modern game that has had a "flawless" or "masterpiece" release? I certainly can't...

Can you think of any modern game that has GAMEBREAKING bugs that are discovered WITHIN TEN MINUTES of gameplay? Not being able to launch and not being able to re-entry are pretty big things. It's not like you have to play for hours, line up things perfectly and even then only when the stars align something odd, but minor, happens.

No. This is experienced players who know how to do things, trying the most mundane and ordinary actions in the game, and being confronted with them not working. If it were call of duty it'd be like not being able to reload your gun. If it were GTA it would be like not being able to get out of a car. If it were Five Nights at Freddie's it would be like not being able to close the door.

And these games are NOT showing those kinds of bugs.

It's irrelevant that two (TWO! they couldn't get it right the first time!) fixes were out in a week. The game was released in an unfinished state. That the critiques are forgiving is nice, but it's beyond sloppy that 1.0 was shipped like that, and it's not that they couldn't--they just decided to ship it like that, knowing that the bugs were in there.

That made the 1.0 release a big celebration for Squad, but not for their community. Really, I think we deserved better.

[Whirligig Girl]

No, Apollo 13 was a minor defect that resulted in a disaster that nobody could have predicted.

I was watching a documentary last night on the US space program and I couldn't help but think this is more like the Challenger disaster where you had many people reporting a problem and issues warnings that where ignored by the people in charge who where more concerned with deadlines and budgets than with stopping and listening to what people where saying.

I'd say more, I was actually just about to start a thread just like this, but I've said what I wanted to say many times in the other thread and I'm burning out on this so I will just say besides replacing the apollo 13 analogy with challenger, I agree with everything r4ptor said.

And that unfortunate trailer (which was entertaining until I realized they were gonna die) doesn't help either.

I'm rather apathetic towards the "Ready For 1.0" thing. Though I am starting to lean towards regretful. They could have done 0.95 or 0.99, then two weeks later they could release 1.0 with bugfixing and polish. But overall, it wasn't really a disaster. It just could have been better.

[78stonewobble]

Can you think of any modern game that has GAMEBREAKING bugs that are discovered WITHIN TEN MINUTES of gameplay? Not being able to launch and not being able to re-entry are pretty big things. It's not like you have to play for hours, line up things perfectly and even then only when the stars align something odd, but minor, happens.

No. This is experienced players who know how to do things, trying the most mundane and ordinary actions in the game, and being confronted with them not working. If it were call of duty it'd be like not being able to reload your gun. If it were GTA it would be like not being able to get out of a car. If it were Five Nights at Freddie's it would be like not being able to close the door.

And these games are NOT showing those kinds of bugs.

It's irrelevant that two (TWO! they couldn't get it right the first time!) fixes were out in a week. The game was released in an unfinished state. That the critiques are forgiving is nice, but it's beyond sloppy that 1.0 was shipped like that, and it's not that they couldn't--they just decided to ship it like that, knowing that the bugs were in there.

That made the 1.0 release a big celebration for Squad, but not for their community. Really, I think we deserved better.

Farcry 2 and 3, were pretty much computer breaking for some. Diablo 3 was unplayable, due to connection problems and if I recall simcity suffered the same launch problem.

[csiler2]

I have rather enjoyed the 1.0 'official release.' Sure, it had bugs and KSP could do with a little more balancing and tweaks, but at least Squad can send us magical updates over the internet instead of leaving us with a cartridge (I'm looking at you Atari ET). Let's not forget that the difference between 'alpha,' 'beta,' and 'official' is mostly ceremonial, especially in the case of KSP. It marked the addition of all the features SQUAD originally envisioned for the project. I don't recall any promises of perfect releases or KSP being done, just that they decided to go 'official' because all the features were in. There's still work to be done and Squad was pretty clear about that.

This does not mean that we shouldn't help Squad by critiquing and letting them know where things went wrong. We need constructive criticism and a lot of these threads have not been constructive at all. They whine that Squad screwed the pooch or just care about money, but I have a hard time seeing that when they put out two hot-fixes after busting $#@ to put out their first deadlined release and maintain an official community on their website. They don't have to do either of those things.

Remember, it's just a game, you don't own the developers just because you paid them money to play with the fruits of their labor, they have feelings, and they don't approach problems the same way you do. Be nice and try to be helpful when things go sideways rather than upset and vengeful because its not the way you want it.

[Corw]

Anybody played EvE Online? The patch that deleted boot.ini and rendered computers unbootable?

[csiler2]

Can you think of any modern game that has GAMEBREAKING bugs that are discovered WITHIN TEN MINUTES of gameplay? Not being able to launch and not being able to re-entry are pretty big things. It's not like you have to play for hours, line up things perfectly and even then only when the stars align something odd, but minor, happens.

No. This is experienced players who know how to do things, trying the most mundane and ordinary actions in the game, and being confronted with them not working. If it were call of duty it'd be like not being able to reload your gun. If it were GTA it would be like not being able to get out of a car. If it were Five Nights at Freddie's it would be like not being able to close the door.

And these games are NOT showing those kinds of bugs.

It's irrelevant that two (TWO! they couldn't get it right the first time!) fixes were out in a week. The game was released in an unfinished state. That the critiques are forgiving is nice, but it's beyond sloppy that 1.0 was shipped like that, and it's not that they couldn't--they just decided to ship it like that, knowing that the bugs were in there.

That made the 1.0 release a big celebration for Squad, but not for their community. Really, I think we deserved better.

Thumbs down, I disagree. I didn't experience any major issues on release day. There were a couple of bugs, but nothing that prevented me from enjoying the game.