Creating an economicly sound Mun mining operation

[Kebra]

àhave begun dabbling with mining a bit.

There is currently a refinery station in orbit around Mun. I have experimented with a few different mining ship but i am struggling with the balance between ore storage, power and dV enough to get down and up again. My crafts are bringing back less ore than they use on the trip.

Anyone here who can give a little advice? I am not looking for ready made .craft just some advice on some simple stuff like how much ore you are bringing back for each drill run to make it profit

[Shawn28]

It's kind of hard to say because i don't know how your lander looks like, so if you send a few screenshots that would be useful...

anyway, what i think so far (without screenshots) is that your lander probably doesn't have enough DeltaV because if you want to mine ore on the surface and deliver it to the refinery in orbit you need to be able to land with empty ore tanks and get to orbit with full ore tanks... anyway, it's not simple, but good luck

screenshots would still be useful

-Shawn.

- - - Updated - - -

P.S. what i would do is probably make a Minmus(or any other low gravity moon) mining operation instead on the Mun because it takes a lot less DeltaV to get to orbit.

[Kebra]

It's kind of hard to say because i don't know how your lander looks like, so if you send a few screenshots that would be useful...

anyway, what i think so far (without screenshots) is that your lander probably doesn't have enough DeltaV because if you want to mine ore on the surface and deliver it to the refinery in orbit you need to be able to land with empty ore tanks and get to orbit with full ore tanks... anyway, it's not simple, but good luck

screenshots would still be useful

-Shawn.

- - - Updated - - -

P.S. what i would do is probably make a Minmus(or any other low gravity moon) mining operation instead on the Mun because it takes a lot less DeltaV to get to orbit.

Minmus might be a better idea.

landing and taking off from Mun is easily atleast ~1000dv

With a 300 ore tank and , 400 units of fuel LF+O and a LV909 i get about 2000 dV out of it.

So with two very economical runs i can create 600 fuel, i spent 400 and net about 200 into storage.

http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/34119782387171411/14C9AD40EE6B3BDC539B18899E255D24A54CD8DB/

In reality i doubt i can do it with 1000dv pr trip. Station isn't hanging at 14km (more like 30km). I'm guessing in reality it's closer to 1300 or 1400 dV pr trip, but i really havn't paid too close attention.

(i havn't factored in that the ore tank is filled on the way bank. In the VAB the dV capabilities are halved when the ore tank is filled)

[Shawn28]

cool lander... kind of small though... i think you should make your refinery around Minmus or make a bigger lander.

anyway, i think your lander is well designed but a little to small/need more fuel.

-Me (who else ?)

[vicwarrior]

That lander is tiny, way too tiny, you aren't ever going to fuel an interplanetary mission with it, build bigger, think bigger.

[Tarrow]

Personally I use minmus for my kerbin-area refuelling station. It doesn't take much more delta v to get to minmus than it does mun, while getting from the surface of minmus to orbit is much easier on fuel than on mun. If you get lucky and have a good patch of resources on one of the perfectly flat areas of terrain it's about as perfect a site as you'll get

[BluetoothThePirate]

Put the refinery on the ground, that's the key. If your refinery is in orbit then your lander needs to land carrying all the fuel it needs to return to orbit with a full load. If your refinery is at the mine, then your lander can land almost empty, no need to spend fuel slowing down a lot of extra mass. If you're just looking to max out your return a land-based refinery is better, unless your ore source is asteroids.

[Kebra]

Put the refinery on the ground, that's the key. If your refinery is in orbit then your lander needs to land carrying all the fuel it needs to return to orbit with a full load. If your refinery is at the mine, then your lander can land almost empty, no need to spend fuel slowing down a lot of extra mass. If you're just looking to max out your return a land-based refinery is better, unless your ore source is asteroids.

ore is converted 1-1 with fuel and weighs the same.

There shouldn't be any difference in where you have your refinery in regards to moving it around.

Having your fuel storage in space allows much bigger and bulkier ships to dock and refuel than if they had to land.

I will relocate to minmus and work on a bigger mining vessel

[Shawn28]

Awesome ! good luck !

[BluetoothThePirate]

ore is converted 1-1 with fuel and weighs the same.

There shouldn't be any difference in where you have your refinery in regards to moving it around.

Having your fuel storage in space allows much bigger and bulkier ships to dock and refuel than if they had to land.

I will relocate to minmus and work on a bigger mining vessel

I didn't say land all your ships to refuel, have storage in space and do the refining on the ground. The reason being that if you don't have a fuel supply on the ground then your lander needs to land with all the fuel for the return trip on board. The landing phase is the least efficient part of the trip, you're going slow and burning straight down, so the heavier the ship is on landing the more fuel you're going to waste on the round-trip even if on paper the delta-v is the same. That is the only difference, but it is a big one in terms of return per trip.

[Frederf]

The mover between the surface and orbit wants the absolute minimum equipment on board since every gram hurts the bottom line. No refineries, no drills, no ore containers, just fuel, engines, and landing legs. Assuming you have KAS or some other way to transfer resources on the ground it's much better to leave the refining equipment stationary. The trip down to join the drill for example should contain enough fuel for the trip down but not back up. Refuel on the ground and bring it to the orbital depot. Offload all fuel except enough to go down again. This way you don't need ore storage and fuel storage on the mover (heavy), just fuel.

The argument against this is if you need something other than fuel bi propellant, say liquid fuel only for a nuclear engine. Then your mover might need LF/OX while your cargo is just LF or something else as ore eventually might serve a different purpose. You might want LF/OX making capability on the ground still (carrying round trip fuel is expensive) but perhaps you need a separate cargo and mover fuel container.

The shallowest gravity well is best for both the mover's consideration and the benefit of refueling craft headed for points beyond which is why Minmus is much more appealing than Mun.