Manned Venus Landing

[Voyager275]

Do you think we can ever land on the second planet from the sun

[Bill Phil]

Land on? As in with probes? Well then, yes, since it's been done.

Land on? As in humans? Not anytime soon, at least.

[Jonboy]

It's not an exaggeration to say that the surface of Venus is a real life hell. The average temperature on the surface is 850 degrees Fahrenheit. The atmospheric pressure is 90 times that on Earth's surface. Down low, the atmosphere is almost entirely poisonous carbon dioxide, and higher atmosphere consists of clouds of sulfuric acid.

It would be difficult enough to design a spacecraft that could keep humans alive during the decent and for any period of time after the landing without the entire vessel being crushed under the weight of the atmosphere. But any craft that landed with humans would want to return again. Venus has a thick atmosphere and gravity that is almost as great as Earth's. So you would also have to have an ascent stage, making the engineering challenges even more insurmountable.

Tldr; Not for hundreds or thousands of years, if ever.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Jonboy

[Camacha]

Tldr; Not for hundreds or thousands of years

Looking at how far technology evolved in just the past 500 years, that is a pretty bold statement.

[Wesreidau]

Yeah its just an engineering problem, I'm sure its nothing serious. You're only landing something engineered as structure-intensive as a nuclear submarine on a planet hot enough to melt the zinc off a galvanized bolt where it rains acid and then taking it back up under its own power.

I can see Venus being seeded with exotic, engineered microbes to try and normalize it. Otherwise it seems foolhardy to try.

[Jonboy]

Here's something a little easier, albeit crazy. An airship colony, filled with normal, breathable atmosphere, would naturally float high in Venus's clouds right at the point where atmospheric pressure is 1.0 atmosphere. With this setup, there's no need to design a vessel that can withstand a withering 90 atmospheres of pressure, or even the engineering challenge of preventing the inside air from venting out (as you must do in normal spaceflight in a vacuum). And at that altitude, temperatures on Venus are a balmy 32 degrees Celsius. The main problem, of course, is preventing the sulfuric acid from eating straight through your colony.

Of course, it was the Russians who came up with this idea.

[basic.syntax]

Speaking of airships, check this thread for its proposal video.

[GoSlash27]

Do you think we can ever land on the second planet from the sun

Sure.

Landing is the easy part.

Best,

-Slashy

[Findthepin1]

Venus is very hot and the pressure is 90 times that at sea level on Earth

If we freeze it out then the pressure drops.

Only problem is this:

[Jonboy]

If we freeze it out then the pressure drops.

Only problem is this:

Well, most of the heat is due to the greenhouse effect from the atmosphere, not proximity to the sun.

[K^2]

Well, most of the heat is due to the greenhouse effect from the atmosphere, not proximity to the sun.

Ayup. Which means higher up in the atmo is actually quite comfy. Hence the airship colonies proposals.

[jwenting]

It's not an exaggeration to say that the surface of Venus is a real life hell. The average temperature on the surface is 850 degrees Fahrenheit. The atmospheric pressure is 90 times that on Earth's surface. Down low, the atmosphere is almost entirely poisonous cardoon dioxide, and higher atmosphere consists of clouds of sulfuric acid.

Almost correct, except that Carbon dioxide isn't poisonous.

The reason people suffocate in a CO2 atmosphere is lack of Oxygen (O2), not the presence of CO2.

You're confusing CO2 with CO, which is poisonous because it can bind to O2 receptors in the lungs and blood, inhibiting Oxygen uptake in the body.

Other than that, Venus is indeed hell. We'd never be able to walk around there even in the best deep sea pressure suits imaginable. It's too hot, the pressure is too high, and even in the reduced gravity of Venus the suits would be too heavy to be able to move in without being supported by water (bouyancy is the sole reason these suits work in our oceans, they're effectively human sized submarines, complete with electric motors for propulsion).

[Jonboy]

Almost correct, except that Carbon dioxide isn't poisonous.

The reason people suffocate in a CO2 atmosphere is lack of Oxygen (O2), not the presence of CO2.

You're confusing CO2 with CO, which is poisonous because it can bind to O2 receptors in the lungs and blood, inhibiting Oxygen uptake in the body.

You're right, of course. It would have been more accurate for me to say that death would be caused by suffocation, I was speaking colloquially.

[Camacha]

Almost correct, except that Carbon dioxide isn't poisonous.

It really is not healthy to breathe too much carbon dioxide. Correct me if I am wrong, but I also think CO₂ build up is responsible for feeling starved of breath, not the actual lack of O₂ (which simply causes you to doze off). Under normal circumstances that boils down to the same thing, but in unusual atmospheric conditions that would make for a rather unpleasant breathing experience, as you would continuously feel like you are suffocating, even if you are not.

[Wesreidau]

Speaking of pedantic technicalities, I will remind you all that hell is the absence of God and thus impossible to encounter while alive. Very shortly after landing on Venus, however, you may or may not experience hell proper.

I find the airship colony untenable if only because there is no source for the airship's materials. If one re-orbits a nickle-iron asteroid over Venus you could build them there, perhaps, but lowering a fully-formed airship into a sulfuric acid soup would be tricky. Not to mention, how does one land and take off from it? The whole planet is more trouble than its worth unless we radically change the atmosphere.

[Jonboy]

The whole planet is more trouble than its worth unless we radically change the atmosphere.

Exactly. Mars is just a little farther away, but has about the same amount of land as Earth, water in the poles and underground, and is much easier to return from. I'm not saying living on Mars is easy, but compared to Venus it's a vacation.

[Camacha]

I will remind you all that hell is the absence of God and thus impossible to encounter while alive.

That is fairly dependant on specific (sub)religion and beliefs. It can be a number of things, but few (if any) are suitable for this forum.

[Jonboy]

That is fairly dependant on specific (sub)religion and beliefs. It can be a number of things, but few (if any) are suitable for this forum.

The next sentence makes it clear he's making a joke, one that I appreciated.

[Camacha]

The next sentence makes it clear he's making a joke, one that I appreciated.

That is up for debate, you can interpret that either way. Pedantic throwdown!

[KerikBalm]

Step 1:

Massive planetary engineering to get rid of most of the atmosphere of venus.

Step 2:

Land on the surface.

And CO2 is poisonous at very high concentrations.

One could not breathe an atmosphere that is 80% CO2, 20% O2... at 1 atm,

90 atms of 95% CO2 is most definitely poisonous.

Even higher up in the clouds at 1 atm, you'd need more than just supplementary oxygen like what glider pilots use at high altitude.

You'd need to keep most of the CO2 out (small leaks should be ok though).

[RunAwayItzJack]

If you want to take a look into a theoretical mission to venus I'd recommend reading Venus by Ben Bova.

In the story there are two different approaches, one of them was very kerbal

[TARDISES]

Unless we somehow discover or create a material that can withstand such extreme temperatures and pressures I think a manned mission to Venus is impossible.

Unmanned missions, however... Well, they would be one way and the probes wouldn't survive for long, but they have been done and it might be viable to find a way to suspend the probes within the atmosphere. Could be a useful way of figuring out how that runaway greenhouse effect startedd.

[Ethanadams]

I had a really cool presentation from nasa called havoc can't acces it right now so here's some other stuff

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs9CfbO1DHEWW1WeC1zSWJPSEE/edit?usp=docslist_api

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs9CfbO1DHEaUxkS0IzdDZ4YlE/edit?usp=docslist_api

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0Bxs9CfbO1DHEQXlOZW5BaGc5X0U/edit?usp=docslist_api

[Yukon0009]

@ethanadams, HAVOC was a floating habitat above the surface, not a manned landing

[Ethanadams]

They had plans with havoc to go to the surface