Bad modding sites?

[RAINCRAFTER]

[h=2]"Kerbal Stuff is a community modding site. There have been a few poor modding sites for Kerbal Space Program in the past. Kerbal Stuff aims to be different. We fix the problems with the old and make the new work great. Most of all, Kerbal Stuff brings the Kerbal Space Program community back into the loop and puts the power in the modder's hands."[/h]These are the words that greet you on Kerbal Stuff if you go to the homepage and scroll below the mods. Now, this goes with a question; what were those bad modding sites? I've only heard of the Spaceport, Kerbal Stuff, and Curse. Also, the only bad one in that sentence was Curse from my knowledge. So, does anyone know of any bad modding sites?

[raidernick]

There is also a site that is a direct copy of the spaceport, that is the "bad" one you hear everyone talking about.

[sal_vager]

We can't have anyone linking to any of those "bad" sites by the way, on copyright grounds, as the sites in question basically just scraped Spaceport with no regard for anyone's licences.

Curse is hardly bad, though it has a reputation from some communities, mainly Minecraft from what I've seen, Spaceport is of course no more, and Kerbalstuff is one of several community driven addon sites.

If you want addons it's best to stick with the Forums, Curse, Kerbalstuff or Ckan, craft can be found on KerbalX

[Murph]

We can't have anyone linking to any of those "bad" sites by the way, on copyright grounds, as the sites in question basically just scraped Spaceport with no regard for anyone's licences.

Curse is hardly bad, though it has a reputation from some communities, mainly Minecraft from what I've seen, Spaceport is of course no more, and Kerbalstuff is one of several community driven addon sites.

If you want addons it's best to stick with the Forums, Curse, Kerbalstuff or Ckan, craft can be found on KerbalX

Sal, if there are actually evil sites out there, it might be worth you flagging them to Squad's legal people, to see if there's anything of interest to them. If they use any Squad intellectual property at all, it might be possible to get them nuked. E.g. any logos, trademarks, larger chunks of Squad-authored text (trivial/short amounts of text don't really qualify for copyright, and "fair use" can exempt them even when they do).

[quietghost]

Sal, if there are actually evil sites out there, it might be worth you flagging them to Squad's legal people, to see if there's anything of interest to them. If they use any Squad intellectual property at all, it might be possible to get them nuked. E.g. any logos, trademarks, larger chunks of Squad-authored text (trivial/short amounts of text don't really qualify for copyright, and "fair use" can exempt them even when they do).

You could do that, but honestly that will cost more in legal fees than any settlement that can be negotiated. While keeping Squad's and the mod makers' names clean is in everyone's best interests, there is no effective way to stop the copyright violations without losing massive amounts of money. Our best weapon is to keep the KSP community directed to sites that are responsible and encourage the protection of intellectual property while also promoting new development off of this wonderful game.

[yorshee]

Also, the only bad one in that sentence was Curse from my knowledge.

This is something I've been curious about for a long time, why do people hate Curse so much?

[Thomas988]

This is something I've been curious about for a long time, why do people hate Curse so much?

I absolutely hate the ads, the wait times, and the "premium" access. I know, they're just minor inconveniences, but it just lacks the KSP community spirit.

[sal_vager]

Oh lots of reasons, they hear bad things from friends (don't use curse because X is better), or they get an ad when they go there (sites have to support themselves somehow), or their anti-virus decides to freak out (not unusual for many sites), and it can be popular hate on something (bandwagoning).

A bad reputation can be hard to shake, though I've had no issues with Curseforge yet, no ads, no wait times, no need for premium or even an account, but ymmv.

[RAINCRAFTER]

Oh lots of reasons, they hear bad things from friends (don't use curse because X is better), or they get an ad when they go there (sites have to support themselves somehow), or their anti-virus decides to freak out (not unusual for many sites), and it can be popular hate on something (bandwagoning).

A bad reputation can be hard to shake, though I've had no issues with Curseforge yet, no ads, no wait times, no need for premium or even an account, but ymmv.

I don't hate curse, I just think it isn't as good as the spaceport.

[Murph]

You could do that, but honestly that will cost more in legal fees than any settlement that can be negotiated. While keeping Squad's and the mod makers' names clean is in everyone's best interests, there is no effective way to stop the copyright violations without losing massive amounts of money. Our best weapon is to keep the KSP community directed to sites that are responsible and encourage the protection of intellectual property while also promoting new development off of this wonderful game.

I'm certainly not advocating that Squad should throw huge resources at a lost or pointless effort. All I'm thinking is that they probably have legal representation either in house or on retainer (and I'm not one for arguing that lawyers need to be richer, but if you don't have that, Squad, you really should do to protect yourself and your great product). So, there's not necessarily any significant cost (or maybe even no cost if they already have in house counsel) to throw some entirely justified legal letters out against people possibly harming or taking unreasonable advantage of Squad & KSP's good names and intellectual property. Yes, it's important to evaluate the cost:benefit when deciding just how far to go down the legal road.

The other side of it, however, is that you simply cannot afford not to protect a valuable trademark. The way the law works for trademarks is that if you don't defend them, you lose the rights. Copyright, on the other hand, doesn't need such an active protection, although knowingly ignoring an issue can potentially lead towards "tacit acceptance" and weaken any future case. The 3rd apex of the intellectual property triangle, patents, well they are just an unholy mess.

[sal_vager]

Hey Murph, Squad obviously can't condone copyright license infringement which is why certain sites aren't allowed to be linked here, but Squad has no issues with fan sites like Kerbal Stuff which do a great job of respecting modders wishes.

Doesn't stop modders issuing their own DMCA takedown notices though if they wish, but their effectiveness can vary, sites that scraped modders work aren't likely to take much notice of them.

Squad does have a legal department that deals with infringement of the Kerbal IP, but Squad don't own modders work so can't really do much about it.

[Murph]

Hey Murph, Squad obviously can't condone copyright license infringement which is why certain sites aren't allowed to be linked here, but Squad has no issues with fan sites like Kerbal Stuff which do a great job of respecting modders wishes.

Doesn't stop modders issuing their own DMCA takedown notices though if they wish, but their effectiveness can vary, sites that scraped modders work aren't likely to take much notice of them.

Squad does have a legal department that deals with infringement of the Kerbal IP, but Squad don't own modders work so can't really do much about it.

Oh, I think you misunderstood me, or I've misunderstood what was being implied by "bad". That was why I said "actually evil". I don't know which sites we're talking about, but I've seen sites related to other games which have scraped content (including the game's official intellectual properly) and were using the sites to conduct things such as: illegal activity, distribute very dubious installers (which might well include unwelcome malware/adware payload), sell "gold" in games where it's prohibited, phishing, etc.

I certainly don't mean to suggest that fan sites should be stomped on, if they are not doing anything "actually evil", even if a portion of the community have some beef with them. And yes, unless each modder was to appoint Squad as an enforcement agent (and Squad actually wanted to be an enforcement agent), the mods are nothing to do with them and they can't get involved.

Nuke the evil guys, if at all possible. Leave the fan sites alone, as long as they are not causing significant problems for Squad (other than possibly forum noise if someone gets grumpy with someone else).

[sjwt]

what were those bad modding sites? I've only heard of the Spaceport, Kerbal Stuff, and Curse

Yes, IIRC according to the community those are the three main bad modding sites