Why do you think laythe has no life?

[Hayhaa]

I don't really know why. It has water and land. Plus, since it's next to a gas giant, it must get some warmth...

[Murph]

It just downloaded KSP 1.0, and it's been busy playing it…

[Jonboy]

Oh, it's probably teeming with life, on the microbial level. I like to imagine that the oceans are full of single cell organisms.

[PB666]

I don't really know why. It has water and land. Plus, since it's next to a gas giant, it must get some warmth...

I'm making a stretching speculation that Squad did not want it to have life.

(actually all its life is just under the surface of the planet waiting for some kerbin-folk to try to mine it, but you have to find the spot, and mine like crazy to find it. I hear that when they escape they plan to use their death ray to incinerate KSC).-tales heard from around a Kerbinscout campfire.

[Camaron]

Laythe likes to stay in its mother's basement and play LoL with a bag of Doritos. Its freinds have long since given up on him.

[Im The One]

I remember some one a while ago answering this with that in reality laythe does not have h2o oceans but some other compound, i forget what he mentioned it as. His reasoning is b/c that it is too far away from the sun to allow liquid water, and that even though that it is close to jool, its warmth is not enough. Similar to Europa in our solar system and any other planet/moon at that distance.

[LordCurlyton]

For that matter, why does Kerbin only have have some foliage and the KSC (the apparent source of all Kerbals ever) for its life? I mean, not even a Kerbin whale equivalent to crash my rockets into!

[Varsi]

Without ground scatter Laythe is as alive as Kerbin is

[Murph]

For that matter, why does Kerbin only have have some foliage and the KSC (the apparent source of all Kerbals ever) for its life? I mean, not even a Kerbin whale equivalent to crash my rockets into!

The flag pole outside the astronaut complex is actually the top of the lift shaft down to their huge secret subterranean city.

[Tankman101]

I remember some one a while ago answering this with that in reality laythe does not have h2o oceans but some other compound...

I remember hearing that the oceans were in fact water, but had a very high salt content. Not sure how that holds up scientifically but it's an alternative to the whole hydrocarbon sea thing (Titan, just using as example.).

[sumghai]

Has it ever been officially stated that Laythe has a breatheable atmosphere?

[Brotoro]

Why do I think Laythe has no life?

I don't. I think Laythe has life. Laythe has a substantial fraction of oxygen in a substantial atmosphere, and I don't know how that can happen without photosynthetic life.

[Jonboy]

Jet engines need oxygen to work, and they work on Laythe. On Duna and Eve, the other planets besides Kerbin with atmospheres, jet engines do not work. This implies that there is little oxygen in those atmospheres, but that Laythe's is oxygen-rich.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean the air is breathable (there could be any other gas in there besides oxygen). But it at least has enough oxygen to allow jet engines to work, so it is a reasonable assumption.

[Murph]

Jet engines need oxygen to work, and they work on Laythe. On Duna and Eve, the other planets besides Kerbin with atmospheres, jet engines do not work. This implies that there is little oxygen in those atmospheres, but that Laythe's is oxygen-rich.

Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean the air is breathable (there could be any other gas in there besides oxygen). But it at least has enough oxygen to allow jet engines to work, so it is a reasonable assumption.

I could be wrong, but I believe they would work with any gaseous oxidiser being scooped up by the intake in sufficient quantity. Oxygen is certainly the likely candidate, but I'd want to do some research before declaring it to be the only possibility.

[Ival70]

Has it ever been officially stated that Laythe has a breatheable atmosphere?

As far as I know, there has never been an official stance on the matter. I think things like this are kept intentionally vague to let the players create their own lore for their program. I personally think that the air on Laythe is not directly, but can be passed though a breathing apparatus which makes it acceptable for kerbal use.

Another question is even if a kerbal had a breathing apparatus, could the rest of them (skin, eyes, etc) be exposed to laythe air?

[federicoaa]

Laythe was once full with Kerbal life, but it all changed when the Kraken attacked.

[Geschosskopf]

I don't really know why. It has water and land. Plus, since it's next to a gas giant, it must get some warmth...

Well, in our universe, oxygen is one of the most reactive, corrosive things going, which means you don't find it by itself in significant quantities just due to geologic processes. It's almost all glommed onto something else. Thus, having a significant amount of free oxygen in an atmosphere requires some other reaction going on at a large scale to create a surplus of O2 over what's constantly combining with nearly everything else. And about the only source of such a reacion is biological. A significant amount of oxygen in an atmosphere therefore probably means lots of life. So from that perspective, Laythe is almost certainly crawling with photosynthesizing microbes (or at least the ocean is full of them). Of course, in the KSP universe, the nuclear strong and weak forces are radically different than our own, so Ksp "oxygen" cannot be exactly the same thing as our oxygen. But it seems to work in a similar manner, so I think it's safe to say Laythe is totally infested.

You know, there's a bit of irony in this. We have all those "Alien" movies where the critters have acid for blood. But we breathe oxygen and our blood is made of salt water, which is also one of of the most corrosive things going. I image there are critters on other planets with very different chemetry who picture us as extremohiles for thriving on such hostile substances

[little square dot]

I haven't visited Laythe in quite a while, but isn't it close enough to Jool and the other moons that it would have some pretty wicked tidal action? That would all-but eliminate the possibility for land-based (visible) life, and probably any sort advanced sea life. The conditions would be far too volatile.

...or maybe they're not actually as close as I remember them being, in which case I was never here.

It would be absolutely amazing if KSP had a weather/tidal system that could mimic such conditions, but that might have to wait until KSP 3 or 4..

[DarkGravity]

Frankly, I'm amazed that any planets have complex life. For evolution to work, an ecosystem, the climate, etc must remain stable for a very long time. One gamma ray burst pointed in your direction from a nearby star, and its game over. Same for killer collisions with other planetoids, extreme comets, etc. There seems to be a need for a molten ferromagnetic core in the planet to set up a magnetic barrier from solar assault, and the sun itself must be friendly and consistently docile. One good coronal mass ejection, and it's all over. Probably any solar systems near the center of a galaxy have too much commotion going on (bad neighborhood syndrome) to ever remain stable long enough for complex life to develop. If a neighboring star wanders by your solar system, suddenly all your orbits are out of whack. The gravity must be strong enough to hold onto an atmosphere, which itself must contain the right ingredients. And the planet must be the right distance from the sun. Plus you can't have too much (or too little) radiation (just enough mutation is very helpful in the long run). Being close to a gas giant might provide some warmth, but it might also provide massive radiation (like Jupiter) and powerful tidal forces that constantly tear at the moon. And on and on and on. So many things must go right, that it is absolutely amazing that it has happened on Earth for as long as it has. Even here, it has been close several times. There have been many times when all life on earth was wiped out except for a small percentage. Life is quite special. Complex life is very very special.

Edited May 20, 2015 by DarkGravity

[Murph]

Frankly, I'm amazed that any planets have complex life. For evolution to work, an ecosystem, the climate, etc must remain stable for a very long time. One gamma ray burst pointed in your direction from a nearby star, and its game over. Same for killer collisions with other planetoids, extreme comets, etc. There seems to be a need for a molten ferromagnetic core in the planet to set up a magnetic barrier from solar assault, and the sun itself must be friendly and consistently docile. One good coronal mass ejection, and it's all over. Probably any solar systems near the center of a galaxy have too much commotion going on (bad neighborhood syndrome) to ever remain stable long enough for complex life to develop. If a neighboring star wanders by your solar system, suddenly all your orbits are out of whack. The gravity must be strong enough to hold onto an atmosphere, which itself must contain the right ingredients and be the right distance from the sun. Plus you can't have too much (or too little) radiation (just enough mutation is very helpful in the long run). And on and on and on. So many things must go right, that it is absolutely amazing that it has happened on Earth for as long as it has.

Unlikely events happen if you have a huge scale, the Universe is the ultimate huge scale (well, unless it's part of a multiverse). Flip a coin for long enough, eventually you'll get heads 1000 times in a row.

[Hannu]

As far as I know, there has never been an official stance on the matter. I think things like this are kept intentionally vague to let the players create their own lore for their program. I personally think that the air on Laythe is not directly, but can be passed though a breathing apparatus which makes it acceptable for kerbal use.

There are also a more practical reason not to lock this kind of things. Even developers can not know what is long term future of the game. Credible life is extremely difficult to program but it may be very interesting element in game and somebody in development team can become inspired about it.

Another question is even if a kerbal had a breathing apparatus, could the rest of them (skin, eyes, etc) be exposed to laythe air?

Well. It is difficult to say anything about aliens who can live years in space without metabolism just weared to spacesuit. There is room for different rolegames, future ideas and mods. I think that there can be simple life in Laythe and try not explain it too much with our natural laws. There are clearly different elements and interactions in KSP world as in our world. KSP system would be impossible with our physics.

- - - Updated - - -

So many things must go right, that it is absolutely amazing that it has happened on Earth for as long as it has, despite the many times when all life on earth was wiped out except for a small percentage that survived the major mass extinctions. Even here, it has been close several times.

Or is it? We do not know anything sure about it. It may also be that life is extremely resilient phenomena and it can arise or spread to any suitable planet. Studies of exoplanets show that there are billions of such planets in our Galaxy. It seems also that life formed (or came) to earth very soon after conditions become suitable after crust solidification and it have survived in every cosmic catastrophes. It may not be very improbable thing. Catastrophes that you mentioned are extremely rare even in cosmic scale.

But I agree that in any case it is very amazing that this kind of chemical phenomenon can exist in our universe. It will be very interesting time when astronomers get possibility make spectroscopic observations of exoplanets. They can detect oxygen, methane or other unstable gases which may be biological origin. Or even see glow of sodium gas from aliens' street lighting.

[DarkGravity]

Things that are "rare" by one perspective can seem quite common if you change the number of zeros on the time axis. When a recipe requires a stable oven for billions of years, all you need is a dozen potential disasters, each with a one-in-ten-billion-chance-per-year to suddenly make success not so likely in getting the soufflé to rise.

It could be that life is common, but the available evidence currently suggests otherwise. Of the hundred or so bodies we have examined, all have turned up nothing, except here. It certainly will be interesting to see what comes of deeper exploration of Enceladus and Europa.

Edited May 20, 2015 by DarkGravity

[Hannu]

Things that are "rare" by one perspective can seem quite common if you change the number of zeros on the time axis. When a recipe requires a stable oven for billions of years, all you need is a dozen potential disasters, each with a one-in-ten-billion-chance-per-year to suddenly make success not so likely.

I disagree with that requirement. As I said, it seems that life appeared to Earth almost immediately (in hundreds of millions of years) it become possible. Earth has never been and will not be stable place over billions of years. It has been much warmer, most continents have been very arid desert and it has also been long periods mostly (or totally) covered with ice. There have been very significant changes in atmospheric composition (oxygen, carbon dioxide). There have been collisions of asteroids and comets, massive geologic events, maybe gamma bursts from outer space etc.

If you have billion planets and probability of life appearing is one of several hundred millions of years and probability of life destruction is one of ten billion years most of the planets have life most of the time. But of course we can not say anything sure if we have observations from one planet. It can be that life is very rare in cosmic scales and the Earth is extreme example. I just not believe it. There is no special evidence behind rare life hypothesis.

It could be that life is common, but the available evidence currently suggests otherwise. Of the hundred or so bodies we have examined, all have turned up nothing, except here. It certainly will be interesting to see what comes of deeper exploration of Enceladus and Europa.

We have studied only the surface of the Moon with such an accuracy that we can say that it is sterile. Except bacteria from Earth. Apollo 12 crew landed near Surveyor 3 probe, which had been several years on Moon. They took some parts to investigation and found bacteria which had survived years in vacuum exposed to extreme temperature variations and high radiation levels. Of course they can not reproduce or spread in such conditions but they can stay alive. It will be also very interesting to get soil sample from Mars at depth of couple of meters.

[Delrey]

Jool's radiation belt makes it sterile

[Levelord]

I don't know about Laythe but from how much I play KSP I ask if I have a life....